LoveAndPeace

Hi there,
I am fairly new to this community and even though I have just signed up, I have been reading around for quite some time.

I am currently 17 years old, almost 18 and in a long distance relationship with a 19 year-old girl. Some of you might think that what I am going to talk about shouldn't really concern me at this point but I feel like I need some input from people.

About 8 months ago I met a girl from Indonesia. We have not met in real life yet. I am aware that this means that there is a whole bunch of uncertainties about our relationship this way already. In approximately 3 months, I'll visit her and her family in Indonesia.

I am "on paper" a Christian but in reality I am agnostic, while she is Muslim. Her family, especially her mum, are very stern when it comes to following the exact teachings of the Quran. Luckily, my girlfriend is fairly open-minded. I am generally not a fan of LDRs because I have been in one before, when my family immigrated to Canada from Germany, which ended shortly after in a painful breakup. With this girl, it is a whole different story though. We keep in constant contact, via phone, text message, skype, msn, etcetc. It feels like there is a true connection between both of us.

Of course there is tough times and there is good times but our relationship just feels so natural and I am positive that we'll stay together for a long time, if not forever. We can be completely open to each other, and we talked about many things, like faith, etc. The ruling in Islam is that a Muslim girl can only marry a Muslim guy, to ensure that the Children are also brought up as Muslims. I have read somewhere though, that this is more an interpretation of the Quran, done by scholars, rather than what it actually says. Can anyone shed any light on this?

I am all in favor of letting our kids (if we have any) choose what religion they want to go towards and I will accept their decisions. My girlfriend, even though a bit reluctant, said that she agrees with me. Now the obvious problem is her parents... Even though she says we can work it out, I doubt it's that easy... does anyone have any experiences of the sort?

Also to highlight, she has been in several what she calls "relationships" before with a total of 7 other guys during her high school time, but she has never even kissed any one of them due to their strict Muslim teachings. Surprisingly, with me she is willing to open up a lot more though. Not yet sexually of course.

Basically, all I am looking for is more knowledge because I really want our relationship to work out great. Opinions, experiences, and general ideas are all welcome.

All this time, in my opinion, religion has done so much to set apart people from around the world so I'd love to go back on that and show that we're all people and if love is there, then we'll find a way.

If you think I am too young or our relationship is too fresh for having all these thoughts, then you might as well not answer... Because I know that it might be too early, but these points still concern me now and even if I wasn't with her, they would still interest me.

~~ LoveAndPeace

Runs like Dog

Frankly I am amazed her family would allow you to have any relationship with her unless they thought it was trivial and will never amount to anything more than what they view as 'pen-pals'.

LoveAndPeace

She used to have a Christian boyfriend, which she hid from her parents and when they did find out, they got really mad. Now she lives with her older sister and her husband because they live close to where she works.

Her sister, who her mother trusts a lot, especially due to being older went with my girlfriend together to talk to her mother. The sister sees me every day and we have a quick chat, so we're fairly familiar already The mother can barely speak english but whenever we see each other on the weekend we talk with my girlfriend as a translator for a few minutes and she always asks questions that seem really down to earth. So they made a good impression and even though the mum seems skeptical, she invited me to visit and allowed me to stay at my girlfriend's sister's house and even asked me to visit her parents. Overall really friendly people

RandomDude

I am surprised as well because most Muslim communities would not allow their women to date non-Muslims - unless of course you are willing to convert.

You're in for a wild ride, I am a Tengriist myself, and my wife is Christian. We've weathered more BS then we can count, and ironically it's brought us very close together.

BTW, you can't classify Islam as one religion, there are many different sects, Sufi Islam for instance, is more into the spiritual side and not the religious.

I can't promise you anything except that you WILL most definitely encounter a ton of obstacles. You yourself have to gauge her strength and yours to determine whether it will have a future or not; that's what it comes down to.

Another issue you may have left aside is Indonesian culture, this is not just cross-religious it's cross-cultural, and I dare say "cross-ethnic". You are young but from my own experience, don't give a crap about your own age, instead, look at maturity, gauge yourself, are you both mature enough to handle all this crap?

As a side note too, you do know, you both follow the Old Testament, embrace the similarities before you try to work out the differences.

cb45

Gosh! i wish this was Vegas and (if i werent a REAL christian) i could "bet the house" against u, cuz this is as close as a "sure bet" there is to "coming in".

agnostic u r, and whether u r green/purple/orange, or hari krishna or whatever, it doesnt matter cuz even if u two r foolish
enuff to "tie the knot" i'd still "double-down" against ya lasting more than hmmm, 7years (i say 7 only cuz i'm doubling down...lol. actually more likely less).

and then i'd be a multi-millionaire many times over cuz i'd have
poor desperate people who think they r in love, or "see" love on
the/their horizon, willing to enter into (practically) impossible
situations because they are soooo lonely, so desperate etc,
that THEY'd be willing to bet against me.

in a way, this is what vegas does to most folk anyhow.

diff is, i'd have to be very charitable with my "winnings" as per
what God would have me do.

NOW, if u were a REAL christian, i wouldnt bet against u no matter what. Cuz i know what Jesus can do!

Jesus....yer only real hope....(and hers too).

kidcanman

I'm an american muslim and I'll tell you right now that no practicing muslim will EVER be okay with a muslim woman marrying an agnostic. As long as she considers herself a muslim she will be a disgrace in the eyes of every practicing muslim from Indonesia to mecca.

Is that what you want for her?

You probably think that it is a challenge for you to try and see if you can make a woman reject her family for you. But you will soon find out that it does not make your life any easier to have a wife that is at odds with her family. Or maybe it will make you happy to convince at least one human being to give up their belief system.

Haven't you noticed from being a member of this site that marriage is not easy?

Why do you want to complicate you're life unnecessarily?

Wouldn't you rather want to add to the strength of somebody's family instead of tearing it apart just to prove a point? You call that Love&Peace? And wouldn't you rather want to be a part of a family that will love and accept you?

The fact is that there are plenty of agnostic girls in the world that are just as desirable as this girl.

kidcanman

to answer your question, the vast majority of muslims, and the common thinking in the religion is that a muslim woman cannot marry a non-muslim man. 99% of muslims of ALL denominations view this as an explicit statement from the quran.

However, because I have six sisters, I know that some muslim women dispute this prohibition. And their argument is rooted in semantics. You see
the term "muslim", and "believer" are used interchangeably in the quran. And in the verses that describe the category of men a muslim woman can marry, the term "believer" is used. One verse states that a muslim woman can marry a "believing" man.

Some muslim women argue that an agnostic is somebody that believes in god, and further because they think that agnostics believe in god, they categorize a male agnostic as a "believing man".

But there are problems with the reasoning of muslim women who consider agnostic men to be "believing men".

For one thing agnostics do not believe in "god". They believe in a higher power.

Secondly it is common knowledge and crystal clear within the context of the quran, that the term "believer" in the quran is referring to a person that believes in the "the one true god" and no other god.

Thirdly it is also clear within the context of the quran that the term is referring to a "practicing" believer; that is to say " a believer that has made a conscious decision to submit their self to god". I know that in practice most muslims do not mind if their daughters marry a muslim who is a muslim in name only. But the quran stipulates that a muslim woman should only marry a "believer", that is to say, "a practicing muslim".