greenpearl

Metta,

You can ask your wife what she is trying to achieve.

Going to the meetings and studying the Bible is to help us have a better life, if what she is doing is disturbing your family's peace, is this really what she wants? She has to know that.

You give her the respect and freedom for having her belief, she is supposed to do the same. You two started your marriage life with different believes. She changed, you didn't change. Why is she creating problems for your family and marriage?

Christianity teaches people to be closer to their family, not become more distant. If she becomes more distant from you, then something is not right. Hope she understands it.

RandomDude

Well, I would agree with that comment, but not with her, I agree with it out of irony
Regardless it's not a christian's duty or place to judge one another - tell her this the next time she sprouts this. (As impossible as it is to not judge lol)

You're in a difficult position, and this phase may only last a while or may last for the rest of her life. It seems her mind has become completely closed off and refuses to think for herself.

So tell her something that my wife once told me so long ago; I asked her about questioning her God - as she does all the time, as I'm used to Christians refusing to question ANYTHING, refusing to think, and instead, relying on "faith". I asked my wife how can her faith be so strong yet she questions EVERYTHING.

She replied very simply "If a Christian is afraid to question, their faith is weak". It made a lot of sense to me, as her faith could not be shaken by any answer that she may have found, and instead empowers her. Compare this to those who narrow their minds and listen blindly to "faith" instead of using their God-given hearts and intelligence.

It's kinda funny in a way, she radiated so much light before she entered bible college, yet through the darkness I was like a "memory stick"; as I remembered who she was. And after many headaches I brought back the woman who I fell in love with heh.

I have no ill will towards Christianity, but that's only because I've seen firsthand how strong, loving and amazing the religion itself can make someone. I've seen the bad sides, but 'the yoke is light and path is narrow' apparently (that verse itself can be interpreted in different ways - meh I like wifey's interpretation)

Hope it gets better mate, your wife has the potential to be closer to God, but sometimes God and the church are two different things. I may be "pagan", but I couldn't help but adopt some of wifey's preaching back in her sunshine days.

SimplyAmorous

Accually Greenpearl , I agree with you , any religion worth it's salt with show LOVE and tolerance of others, most especially if they are living the Golden Rule. BUT some will USE scriptures like this to show they are right in acting the way they do , even in hurting the family .....

Luke 14:26 .... "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple" If you google any commentary on this, it will tell you Jesus did not really mean HATE but the meaning is.... in order to be a disciple of Christ, you must love him more than any other being, Your beliefs come 1st, family is 2nd, lessor.

Now that she is a Born Again Christian, she has a new view of marriage, feeling her partner must be "equally yoked" with her. As long as she takes this seriously, she will be praying to convert you ... it says in 2 Corinthians 6:14-15.... ." Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Christianity is an "EXCLUSIVE FAITH GROUP", not all religions are, but this generally makes them less tolerable of other beliefs......unless they are the more liberal minded christians which Fundamenatlists all feel are NOT christians at all, even your wife saying this sounds very familiar ...Inter-faith marriages: beliefs and practices of different faith groups


She JUST got into this, sometimes people go OVERBOARD in the new excitement, get obsessive but then quickly BURN OUT and come to their senses, seeing alot of this is hype, just like the blind lady was not really blind. Let's hope your wife is just taken to a little zelousness right now, that if she stops, takes a breather, looks around her & evaluates what she is accually saying & HOW she is treating those she has always loved & gotten along with very well , maybe she will come out of it, or at the very least TONE it down some.

__________________
"Love Good Blog"

RandomDude

Also metta...

You have to bear in mind too really, religion is definitely the toughest hurdle that we had to pull through. Throughout our time together, it has caused a lot of heartache, pain, and scars that will never heal. When I first met my wife I had never respected, loved or admired anyone more. I literally couldn't believe she could exist; she just blew my mind away. Then the pain came... of watching her fall, and becoming someone who she once told me she'll never become.

Through the frustration I painfully withdrew my support for her, and that's when it got worse. Over time I began drinking heavily and ended up having a one night stand, shattering us for the longest time - the infidelity still haunts us to this day. And last year, when she used her church, friends, and family all to get her way with me, trying to manipulate me into submission, justifying it by her so-called "faith". I joined this forum for that reason.

Two lessons learnt from the above 2 cases: The first, don't withdraw your support for her, if you love her, keep at it. Pull through with her. The second, be loving, compassionate, and supportive, but still be firm, don't compromise your beliefs and don't let her walk over you.

I was never a man who believed in putting my faith in anything however, except with her. Except for that one time, since coming back to her, I kept with her, because the first impression my wife gave me was too incredible to let it get lost (again). My wife may have still changed, but every time that angel in her comes out is worth the hundred times the devil comes out instead.

So keep who she was in memory, keep that beautiful Christian woman in your mind who was not only tolerant, but when her faith made her only stronger, loving, respectable and admirable. It may help, as it sure is helping me, and maybe in the future, once you two overcome it -> you two will only become stronger, and she will be even more amazing then you had thought possible

SimplyAmorous

Good words of Wisdom there Randon Dude!

We can't give up on our loved ones, even if they drive us a little C R A Z Y for a time , hang in there , keep the faith IN THEM, carry them for awhile , in due time, if they come to their senses -they will love & thank you for putting up with them, might even have a few laughs over it all .


I was TOO religious at one time, I was never outrageous though , some things I could never give up like Rock Music & romance novels, I liked the world a little TOO MUCH to go over board.

BUT still, I used to harp on my poor husband how he didn't pray enough, read the bible enough, I drug the poor man to Church 2-3 times a week, I think he learned to let ME go in one ear and out the other to put up with me, I rambled on about spiritual things more than he cared to hear, always reading Christian books at night when he wanted sex, running to Bible studies, not sure Why --as I was always causing an uproar with my VERY difficult & controversial questions, I was known for that.

I learned alot from those earlier experiences, enough to know me & him are ALOT happier with who I am TODAY, our marraige, than who I was, or thought I was , or striving to be -back then.

__________________
"Love Good Blog"

greenpearl

Accually Greenpearl , I agree with you , any religion worth it's salt with show LOVE and tolerance of others, most especially if they are living the Golden Rule. BUT some will USE scriptures like this to show they are right in acting the way they do , even in hurting the family


SA, I think this is people's problem, they misinterpret what's really in the Bible. They want to feel important, they want to fit in, so they let the blind lead them.




Luke 14:26 .... "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple" If you google any commentary on this, it will tell you Jesus did not really mean HATE but the meaning is.... in order to be a disciple of Christ, you must love him more than any other being, Your beliefs come 1st, family is 2nd, lessor.


We have to understand we are still human, it is difficult to become Jesus's disciple since you have to give up what you have in the world. Not everyone became Jesus' disciple, but we can still listen to his wisdom. It's difficult to live as a Buddhist too. They also have to give up what they have in the world. They do the hard work, they search for the wisdom, and we listen. But we don't have to become like them. It is difficult, because we are human, we have all the desires.

Now that she is a Born Again Christian, she has a new view of marriage, feeling her partner must be "equally yoked" with her. As long as she takes this seriously, she will be praying to convert you ... it says in 2 Corinthians 6:14-15.... ." Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Something I don't like Christianity is they are too condescending towards others. If you are not with them, you are against them. Only they are right, others are all wrong. When you do meet a person who has this kind of attitude, spending time with him or her is suffocating.

Metta's wife right now is being blinded by the association she has in her church. She wants to fit in, so she is doing what she thinks others might be happy about. She wants to make people in her church happy. It is actually very silly. She is not trying to make God happy, she is trying to make people in her church happy. When we are not confident about ourselves, we try to make people happy. It only brings a lot of pressure and stress to us.


Christianity is an "EXCLUSIVE FAITH GROUP", not all religions are, but this generally makes them less tolerable of other beliefs......unless they are the more liberal minded christians which Fundamenatlists all feel are NOT christians at all, even your wife saying this sounds very familiar ...

I think every religion has people with sound mind, and every religion has fanatics. Things become complicated as long as human is involved.

SimplyAmorous

Absolutely In fact, putting aside religion, that is true about ANY GOOD thing. Just as a crazy example... Once I was on a Parenting forum and this lady was still breastfeeding (a good thing) her son at 5 yrs old , it might have even been 6 - I forget now, my mouth hung open reading it ! I was like....whoooaaaaaa and my of my how she defended herself , infact a couple breast feeders came out of the wood work and joined her.

Kinda blew me away, but I realized through that, anything decent , meant for GOOD can still be taken TOO FAR, to where it has the potential to damage others in it's path.

__________________
"Love Good Blog"

metta

Wow! A lot of responses! Thank you so much for that!

Thanks a lot RandomDude and SimplyAmorous for sharing your stories, this gives me some hope and lifts my heart a bit!

That's quite true indeed... I suppose up to now I subconsciously thought I just had to accept it. But it's true she brought this radicalised religion at home and it permeated almost everything in our household. Before we used to chat about politics and economics. I can't do that anymore: within 30 seconds, she will start saying these are the end of times, all that has been predicted in the bible, etc.

That's a good point actually. Because I noted that she tends to react angrily and violently when anyone has some misplaced talks. The most amazing is that she thinks she is free from that very specific behaviour, she thinks that if someone speaks against Christianity or state challenging questions or ideas, this does not affect her. Yet I can see clear it does big time by the way she reacts. That's quite a worrying inconsistency...
Also, tt might be a double-edged sword... Fundamentalists have ready-made answers to everything that threaten them: it's from Satan...

Thanks a lot for sharing your story. There is also a big problem to my wife, and that's buddhism does not have a god. She told a number of times how wrong that is not to worship your creator, etc.
But I think it's a red herring. If I was jew or muslim, she would have just the same level of problem because I wouldn't believe in jesus. Even so, if I was catholic, she would say that I have evil practices by revering the saints, etc. Well, it's just my thinking here! (but she did disparage the catholics quite a few times!)

I also forgot to mention before that she is apparently OK with the fact that some missionaries actively try to break local cultures and religions, because they do not worship the true god. I have to admit that I find this plainly fascist. This is one of the few things I have some real difficulties with.

That's exactly that. Very shortly after being born-again, she told me that god will always come first, and I will come second. I had absolutely no problem with that at that time, because I thought religion would help become a better person.

I am so happy to be a buddhist! I follow the early school, with the canonical scriptures reporting the teachings of the buddha (we don't view these scriptures as holy, sacred or perfect in any way). These scriptures are about 11 times the size of the bible, and yet nowhere you will find a need to interpret texts in such a way, and its content is consistent throughout, in the letter and in the spirit. The quote of the bible you mentioned, taken literally, can indeed lead to a lot of harm.

You must have installed a webcam in our house! That's exactly what is happening indeed! Personally, I think she should pray to accept me as I am, that would be true love instead of trying to change others.

These are good pieces of wisdom! I'll try to follow that indeed!

I am not sure if this really applies to my wife. She even claims that she is not following a religion! As if claiming it makes it true.
There is one thing that is sure, she is now very close-minded. She even claimed just that when there was this question of bringing my daughter to the buddhist service: she told me that we buddhists are open, but christians are closed...
More exactly, I feel she selects the information that enter into her brain and subconsciously discards everything else.

Thank you so much everyone for all your answers. It's a very good thing I started this discussion, it helps me tremendously to get some perspective and understanding.

Best regards

metta

I am also starting to realize that although her reasoning appears logic, I might question it. I always viewed the willingness to change others as a sort of harmful behaviour.
But if she just sticks to this new religion and set of values, I can't see how I will be able to stay with her... it might be worth starting questioning some of her statements and ideas...

Sameold

Metta--she's praying to convert you because she cares about you. Think for a moment about what she believes will happen to you when you die if you don't convert. Of course you don't believe that. But she does. Wouldn't it be wrong for her to not do everything she can to prevent that, given what she believes to be true? If you believed that something that terrible would happen to her, wouldn't you be doing everything you could to prevent it? You'd stop her from walking into the street in front of a moving car, after all. Look at First Corinthians chapter 7, particularly 12-16, for what she's probably been told, or read for herself if she's doing a good job of reading.

The claim to not be following a religion--that's specific to the sort of Christianity your wife is involved in. Religions, in this context, would be where rituals and forms are elevated above the relationship with God. (Hence the comments about Catholicism.)

metta

Hi Sameold,

I perfectly understand and accept that, I have no problem with it whatsoever. In the same vein, I patiently listened to her trying to convert me (I have to admit I got a bit upset sometimes when she way trying every other day)...

Best regards

FirstYearDown

We all have to walk our own spiritual path. I believe in God, but I am not a Christian. My husband is an atheist and even though I do not like that, I do not pressure him to adopt my beliefs.

We did not marry in a church, because neither of us are religious, so it made no sense. It is not fair to run to church to marry and then never attend otherwise.

I was once at a party that was filled with staunch young Catholics. They said that their religion was the only right one. I couldn't help myself, so I asked: "Are you enjoying your career as an effing idiot?"

SimplyAmorous, I knew a man who was breastfed until he was TEN. Ugh!

RandomDude

It's doomsday! We are all gonna die!
What a sad world for our offspring... I'd rather my daughter lives her life to the fullest without worrying about the end of the world unless there's a confirmed meteorite heading for the earth or if environmental factors are going to mess up - in which I'm a bit of a greenie in that respect.

Focusing too much on Satan as a lesser power is rather troubling for Christians I've noticed, there's too much fear of the unknown being used in churches when they should be instead using better faith to inspire people to conquer that fear, and live their life in accordance to love, forgiveness, respect and selflessness. Same principle as driving a car, you look too much on one way you will naturally steer towards it.

Heh me too, it's something I don't tolerate either; I have very strong opinions against genocide, ethnic or cultural, and ethnocide. In fact, politically speaking with others of my people I agree with them and condemn more opening of churches in our motherland, as our ancient beliefs have been suppressed long enough as well as how Christian evangelists there have targeted the weak and even promoted Western ethnocentric views to my people.

Thankfully our people are very stubborn and proud, and instead many have made our own version of Christianity (We had a history of Nestorian Christianity and Christian rulers - but Nestorianism doesn't seem to have shared the same genocidal tendencies of other evangelical sects; as the beliefs merged and was quite acceptable)

I was always firm in this, and genocide is something I simply can not tolerate. Nor do I believe in wiping out Christianity from the earth as that too will be throw the world off balance. They call us "pagan" but we believe in the natural order of the world and the balance; we are dedicated environmentalists and preventing the extinction of cultures is the same as preventing the extinction of species. Guess you can call this cultural relativism.

Christianity can help to make people better, I've seen it in my wife, that's actually why I learnt from her in the past. It's kinda funny really, I was so against Christianity until I met her. Yet as stubborn as I was I could not disregard her wisdom and her aura was simply too magnetic it led me to "convert" willingly. I never did convert by neglecting my own beliefs sure but I adopted many of our shared principles.

But with all religions it's a double-edged sword. Even Buddhism has a bad past in some parts of the world (including my people) with theocracy and even justifying genocide. My own "pagan" beliefs was never organised enough to be used in such a way but unfortunately as liquid in form as it is, it also has lacked the ability to prevent wars and there were even war shamans. Always a dark side

My wife was inspiring enough in the past to have Muslims, buddhists, atheists, and even "Pagans" like me supporting her willingly and to listen to her wisdom. She walked an anointed path so to speak. I still remember one Muslim friend of hers telling my wife back in her awe-inspiring days that she wants to convert to Christianity and go up to the altar and give her life to Christ.

My wife shockingly did not encourage it, but instead told her that she shouldn't do it for the church nor is giving her life to Christ a religious act that can only be achieved through the altar, it's between her and Christ. I was going to my wife at the time "WTF?! Isn't that what you want?" But my wife informed me that Christianity shouldn't be turned into a religious fest of 'pharisees' but a true relationship between one and God. She was a shocker really, accepting and tolerant of other beliefs, yet she converted people - without using fear, without using guilt, using only love.

She got condemned by her own church many times especially when she refuses to ask for offerings quoting the bible, but they kinda shut up when she recieved offerings from people anyway without even the need to ask; people from all walks of life wanted to support her and her message - even I. You can understand how painful it was to see that change as she got submerged into her religion and to watch them break her. Was like an aura fading too... thankfully she's getting her wisdom back slowly.

Oh that is a dangerous mentality for a parent and I personally would have nothing to do with it. This is your daughter too and don't give in for any reason. This is how you have to deal with this; don't give up in your commitment and support for your wife, but don't give up in yourself either. Same thing I've been telling you, you have to stand tall and hope she wises up - and if you yourself set a good example enough chances are she will, and continue to remind her who she was.

Looks like you are correct, she is proud of her intolerance. Have you told her what I told you about questioning her beliefs and her strength in faith yet? She may not hear it straight off the bat but sow the seeds and maybe the fruit will come. As the voice will echo... echo... echo until she finally wakes up lol

I've seen how Christians go through these phases trying to find a way closer to God, I've seen them turn bad, then turn good, then turn bad, then turn even better. It's a spiritual journey, and she's your wife. Let her go through her paces, keep guiding her no matter how stubborn she seems, show her the irony that the very same principles she fights to uphold are practiced instead by you; she's human and she will notice, and after a while she may get sick of it and wise up.

metta

We had another discussion yesterday evening, this time more positive.

I started by asking her for a break in our search for a child, which I knew would be quite tough. I felt I needed that because I couldn't relate to her and her new values anymore, and needed some time to settle down.

Her reaction has been anger (albeit in a sort of controlled manner). She told me I can go if I want to, I am unhappy at heart while she is so good, she is not attached to anyone but to her jesus, etc. She again talked to me at length of her religion. I have to admit I thought it was not a great start...

She started to ask me what are those differences, so I explained them to her: that it's OK to destroy local cultures and religions, it's OK to dislike that a dad teachs his religion to his children because it's not the true religion, it's OK to be intolerant, polarised god/devil view of the world, etc.

We discuss about those, and I think we made some progress in terms of understanding each others point of views. I don't see our differences as irreconcilable anymore, although they are still significant.

I also got firmer in my convictions and started questioning her on some points. I was pleased to see that she didn't get angry at all and was happy to answer to the best of her knowledge. When she started to say "god loves you", etc. I asked her how could god love me and send me to hell for eternity? On this one, she has not been able to provide a satisfiying answer, she just said that when we die, we will be judged, and then she does not know what god will decide...

Still, this is some progress to the previous warnings of "you're going to burn in hell if you don't give your life to jesus".

I was so happy we had this discussion, it kept us awake almost all night. I even told her I feel emotionally better and OK to look for a child again (confused? me?, noooo where do you get this idea!).
Then I said we should agree on the religious education of our future children in order to avoid the issues we had with our daughter. She said "OK, what do you want?" I said I want to tell them about my religion, read them some books for children about buddhism and bring them to the buddhist service if they are happy to come with me.
She first said that's OK. Then she said that she asked god to give her a child and she will give the child back to god when he/she is old enough. She then started to elaborate some sort of convoluted contraptions saying that I can teach them about buddhism, but she can't agree with it, but I can do it because I am the father of the child, maybe she is committing a sin, etc.?!?!
I think I hit a stumbling block here... Wait and see!

The end of the world has been predicted many, many times in the last 2000 years. Yet if you closely look at the bible, the 2nd coming of jesus should have been very swift, within a generation:
1 Th 4:15-17
Mt 24:34
Mt 16:28

I have to admit she put forward some valid arguments. She comes from a poor country, where people in remote villages sometimes suffer from famine, and certainly diseases, malnutrition, where children die from trivial things. In those case, probably those people would be happy to move forward and get a bit of modernity for their betterment.
Yet, I don't think this must mean that they have to give up their culture or religion.
She also thinks it's OK to ask such people to come to church in exchange of some food. This is a big no-no to me, I consider this unethical.

Would you mind tell me more? I am interested!
You can PM me, that's no problem!

I would be interested to know more once again!

That's it! I found it so funny on god tv etc. when some televangelists ask viewers to "sow a seed". There are entire programs just for that. My wife actually fell for one of those and paid a very significant sum of money with her credit card. I was not fantastically pleased with that, especially since she didn't ask me first. She understood her mistake afterwards and now get upset every time she sees them on TV!
We do tithing though: half for her and half for me.

Thanks for the advice. I think I was behaving completely the opposite, keeping my religion for myself because it is meant to be non-invasive to other people, but I got overwhelmed. It's a shame I needed this crisis to wake up to that, but I will definitely correct things now. This household will now be a buddhist/christian household.

I indeed started a bit. We human often underestimate how we can impact others. I agree with you: planting some seeds from time to time will make a big change in the long run.
I already noticed that in the past, on completely different matters. Sometimes I suggested her how to do things in a better way, etc. With her temper she usually reacted negatively. Yet a few weeks later, I was able to see she adopted what I said!

That's a good roadmap indeed!

Thank you so much for sharing these thoughts and experiences! It helps me tremendously!

Kind regards

RandomDude

Heh looks like there is still hope! You are sowing the seeds, that is good! Keep at it mate, no matter how long it takes! =)

The missus, unlike most Christians, actually doesn't believe in the doomsday; which I found quite strange. She sees the word as more of a reflection of her own life and spiritual journey (the whole bible from beginning to end) rather then to take everything so literally. She also has other non-mainstream beliefs due to that mindset; like she feels heaven and hell are closer then most of us think -> and I agree with her.

Targeting the weak eh? They do that all the time in my motherland, and I despise it utterly. Even worse, is how they ask for tithes, like the missus' church goes around the world and preaches a 10% rule - yet not once in the bible has that been mentioned.

Ok sure! Check your pm

Haha! And guess where the money goes -> in the missus' church the leaders change their cars every other month, and the pastor himself lives in his mansion. Her church has world famous music, but also an infamous reputation of materialism amongst many.

I too believe in guiding children without forcing them through a religion. When they grow up I want my daughter to make her own mind. It's something I never compromise, and my wife has realised this early -> I can be very lenient in many other things, but anything in regards to my daughter's well being, I will never break (I had a difficult childhood). I don't mind my wife teaching my daughter Christian principles, in fact I even encourage it, but as long as its HER Christian principles not the churchie stuff!

Anytime mate =) Keep at it, you're doing good work!