I am a student of Catholic Doctrine (don't practice) and I would have to say I agree with the poster's sentiments and would convict myself:
Guilty as charged.
I know I tend to focus a lot on the concept of consummation within a marriage in a spiritual and legal context but that being said. . .
I definitely failed to lead and failed to inspire in my marriage, which became nearly sexless for almosg 10 years.
I am willing to own this and have accepted that the marriage reached it's conclusion because of that and other than pending legal action she filed against me, wish her well and hope she finds a capable leader.
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And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.
I am a student of Catholic Doctrine (don't practice) and I would have to say I agree with the poster's sentiments and would convict myself:
Guilty as charged.
I know I tend to focus a lot on the concept of consummation within a marriage in a spiritual and legal context but that being said. . .
I definitely failed to lead and failed to inspire in my marriage, which became nearly sexless for almosg 10 years.
I am willing to own this and have accepted that the marriage reached it's conclusion because of that and other than pending legal action she filed against me, wish her well and hope she finds a capable leader.
As we are all humans, and therefore prone to faults and failings, the most Godly act is your own accountability, for yourself, for your wife and to God. As forgiveness is paramount as well, I pray that your wife can forgive you, as God will as you have repented... and hopefully, you too will find a new companion to prove your repentance and new life in His Word. Within the Christian context, the responsibilities of the husband, as being ultimately Christ-like, is a far greater task than most christian men are able to comprehend or impliment. If man truly believed and followed His Word, and take the role of leadership, as Christ did, I cannot imagine a wife not be in awe and give due to you the utmost respect and honor. All born simply of love, not force, or edict, or intimidation. As in the previous thread, Moral Obligation of Sex... there is NO SUCH THING and an abomination to think any spouse can demand sex!!
Well I couldn't keep up with such long posts t/o but I did get to read the first two from rd and cb. For the most part, I actually agree with you both. It's so refreshing to hear these things and I only wish I had more ppl who thought like this in and around my community to "spread the word" to others.
For me this is late learned behavior... 2-3 years ago if I would have read this, I would have thought you were totally wrong but now I know better. Thx for posting
Well, I was finally able to get back to this thread.
I had posted on here previously, but had deleted it - when I came back and reflected on my post, it was just too long and 'preachy'.
I do think that the passage from Ephesians is about the special role that a Christian husband has in marriage to be the moral and spiritual leader of his family. If he does a good job with this, his wife will follow him and respect him.
I used to have a terrible time with this passage because I was looking at the wife 'submitting' as her having to do everything that her husband told her to and that really rankled with me. No way was I going to do something that I thought was wrong or detrimental, or from someone who I potentially didn't always respect their leadership.
But, when I researched where the word 'submission' came from in this passage I found that in Greek it was actually a word describing a leader who has the good, positive qualities that make his warriors want to fight for him. Then the passage took on a different meaning, and the husband's role from this passage really jumped out at me.
I think too many concentrate on the "wife submitting" part and not the rest of the passage.
I've read several of your other posts, RDJ, and have enjoyed them. Thanks for giving me some food for thought, as I have been mulling this around for awhile since seeing this post.
What many do not understand about leadership is that in its finest form, leadership is actually about serving the people one leads. Or in other words, being a leader means you have a duty to those you are leading and must exercise care in that duty.
I sure wish my husband could read your post and take it to heart. The principle you communicate (leaving whether or not Scripture was correctly quoted, etc.) hits it right on the head for me. He gets very frustrated that I don't respond sexually or take any sexual initiatives. If only he would accept (because I do believe he knows that women operate differently!) the differences and work with them. I find it so very hard to respect him (long story) and therefore don't feel any attraction. I'm definitely the leader in the home (I dont want to be) and all the other members depend on me 100%. It's such a great burden that when I get in bed I only want to rest and sleep and take a break from the children and the husband who are so demanding and so take, take, take.
I'm glad you wrote this and I just hope that some men will read it and get what you're saying...and more importantly, do something about it!
You know, maybe I'm wrong, but I think there's one thing that too many people miss about the referenced passages in Ephesians.
To me, your interpretation focuses disproportionately on the man's obligation and gives the woman too much of a pass on fulfilling hers if he falls short. That ties into the "something" that I think people are missing, and I think that "something" is just another reflection of the Lord's brilliance in how He created us.
Here's what I'm getting at: for the formula to work, it MUST go both ways, with the mandates applying no matter what. Meaning that neither the man nor the woman is EVER absolved of his or her respective obligation, no matter how much the other spouse may be failing to live up to the mandate.
Yes, the woman needs the man to be the leader in the home, spiritual and otherwise, in order to fully open up her sexuality. BUT--and here's what I think is missing from your read--the husband MUST be able to express his sexuality with his wife in order to be able to BE the leader she needs! If a man is sexually frustrated, it only adds to and worsens whatever issues or feelings of inadequacy are hindering him from fully stepping to the plate as the leader.
And even worse, sexual frustration inevitably makes him even LESS able to put his focus where it belongs, on his wife and family. It drives his focus outward, toward other women, immoral thoughts and behaviors, and more. So if a woman think's he's not enough of a man to have sex with, she's helping to shape him into even LESS of a man! It's an amazingly destructive, downward spiral.
The solution? It lies in the fact that the obligation on both sides remains, no matter what. The man must still strive to be the leader, even when his wife isn't "putting out," if you'll pardon a bit of crudeness. And yet the woman is still obligated to put out, even if she think's he's not stepping to the plate.
The vicious cycle may break when just ONE of the parties involved decides to make the SACRIFICE of fulfilling the obligation even when the reciprocal is not yet true. Once that happens, the situation has HOPE, with God's help, of improving. It's the only way to stop the downward spiral--when one party realizes that he or she doesn't get a free pass on the obligation. I think that's abundantly clear from both the scripture and from observing human behavior.
You know, maybe I'm wrong, but I think there's one thing that too many people miss about the referenced passages in Ephesians.
To me, your interpretation focuses disproportionately on the man's obligation and gives the woman too much of a pass on fulfilling hers if he falls short. That ties into the "something" that I think people are missing, and I think that "something" is just another reflection of the Lord's brilliance in how He created us.
Here's what I'm getting at: for the formula to work, it MUST go both ways, with the mandates applying no matter what. Meaning that neither the man nor the woman is EVER absolved of his or her respective obligation, no matter how much the other spouse may be failing to live up to the mandate.
Yes, the woman needs the man to be the leader in the home, spiritual and otherwise, in order to fully open up her sexuality. BUT--and here's what I think is missing from your read--the husband MUST be able to express his sexuality with his wife in order to be able to BE the leader she needs! If a man is sexually frustrated, it only adds to and worsens whatever issues or feelings of inadequacy are hindering him from fully stepping to the plate as the leader.
And even worse, sexual frustration inevitably makes him even LESS able to put his focus where it belongs, on his wife and family. It drives his focus outward, toward other women, immoral thoughts and behaviors, and more. So if a woman think's he's not enough of a man to have sex with, she's helping to shape him into even LESS of a man! It's an amazingly destructive, downward spiral.
The solution? It lies in the fact that the obligation on both sides remains, no matter what. The man must still strive to be the leader, even when his wife isn't "putting out," if you'll pardon a bit of crudeness. And yet the woman is still obligated to put out, even if she think's he's not stepping to the plate.
The vicious cycle may break when just ONE of the parties involved decides to make the SACRIFICE of fulfilling the obligation even when the reciprocal is not yet true. Once that happens, the situation has HOPE, with God's help, of improving. It's the only way to stop the downward spiral--when one party realizes that he or she doesn't get a free pass on the obligation. I think that's abundantly clear from both the scripture and from observing human behavior.
Thanks, RDJ. To go a step further, I think 1 Corinthians 7:5 is the other crucial scripture to full understanding of this topic:
"Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."
This is a question/answer from a website I reference often for religious topics.
Question: "Is it wrong for a married couple to have sex just for pleasure?"
Answer: Almost an entire book in the Old Testament is dedicated to the subject of passion and sex for pleasure. Song of Solomon is so detailed in its intention of sexual pleasure in marriage that allegories were used to tone it down and Hebrew boys couldn't read it until they were 12, when they became men. God clearly intended sex in marriage to be pleasurable. First Corinthians 7:3-5 talks about not abstaining from sex in marriage: "But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. The husband is to fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does, and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."
The feelings of sexual longings and pleasure during sex were created by God, and marriage was created to fulfill those longings. What Paul is saying is to direct those feelings to your spouse and no other and make sure that they are fulfilled within your marriage relationship, not outside of it. Notice that Paul says if one of the partners is not living up to his or her spouse’s expectations, whether it be pleasure or time, then both need to bring it before God so that one doesn't try to find fulfillment outside of that marriage relationship. Because of the existence of pornography and the perversion of sex over the years, many people (especially Christians) get the idea that pleasurable sex is wrong. We sometimes forget that God fashioned us for sex and created the emotions to go with it; pleasure was intended. We shouldn’t let Satan and his lies keep us from enjoying our spouses or fall into the counterfeit pleasure of sex that the world offers. God's pleasure is real and satisfying; Satan's is counterfeit and empty.
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Re: Sexless in a Christian Mans Marriage. 
