This can be fixed, but not by you. Its up to her and God.
It will be a challenge if she considers her "God" her CHURCH. That's my criticism of christianity, they speak so much about a relationship with God, yet why do they dictate so hard on how an individual's relationship with God should or should not be?
It's a spiritual journey for INDIVIDUALS. Bah!
"Never look to men for God"... oh the irony!
Thanks for your comments. I'm not trying to claim that I'm a martyr of that I'm perfect. There are plenty of times that I'm sure I've slacked a little bit. I do try to take a little time for me occasionally, so I hope it doesn't appear that I was trying to portray myself as more heroic than I am.
It's just that after a 10-hour work day, cooking, cleaning, playing with and bathing our son, putting him to bed and cutting the grass, I don't feel like I need to argue with her to justify the need to go to bed by 10:30 PM. That's when she frequently used to call me lazy (now, I just tell her I'm going to bed and I do it).
As to the lack of sex, she's made it clear that she is not engaging in sex because of our relationship issues. She's never claimed that her fibromyalgia is stopping her from having sex. It's 100% about the fact that she doesn't love me anymore.
I won't judge her relationship with God, even though she frequently judges mine. I honestly believe she has a distorted view of reality, where my every flaw is magnified 1,000 times and any good that I do is completely negated. That's what's frustrating, because trying to talk it out in a reasonable way usually leads no where but to more arguing.
I am astonished from the complete devotion that you have shown your w. I am brought to tears reading all that you are doing for your family. Your wife should be ashamed of herself for not acknowledging the extreme efforts you have made for her. I have MS and I would kill to have my h do just a portion of what you do! Although you say that you are not perfect nor a martyr, in my book you are damn close to it!! It's sad that she can't appreciate you as the "nice guy" ( it makes it even harder on us w's who truly need one). From what I've read, she seems to be the type of woman who needs to have boundaries, so great job with putting your foot down. However, also from reading your post, it seems like you are the type of person that naturally wants to help and wants to make the lives of those around you better....a true christian!!! I can't imagine how torn you are feeling. It has to be quite tiring to give and not receive.
As a Christian, I too understand the distaste in even thinking about a divorce, however you have to think about YOUR health and happiness. It was mentioned earlier about counseling, (sorry if I missed your response), if your w doesn't want to do it, you should definitely try yourself for just a little peace of mind.
Good luck and God Bless... and tell your w to be thankful for the UNBELIEVABLY devoted, supportive and loving h she has in you...she doesn't know how good she really has it!!!!!
Everyone as to make his/her own opinion based on available facts.
I have 2 pieces of advice though:
- Be careful of the source of information; if you ask the scientific community "do you think that the vaccines and tooth fillings that you used for the past 50 years are causing autism and fibromyalgia?", the answer will receive is likely "no".
- Different people have different abilities to eliminate heavy metals depending on their genetical backgrounds; only a minority is unable to properly eliminate them; I have not seen a epidemiological study taking that into account (I would be happy if you could point me to one).
That was not my intention and I made it clear in my previous post. You can at least let your wife know about it, and she can get informed and/or take action if she so wishes.
Best regards
well if the scientific community says no then that's fine with me, or will you start with conspiracy theory of drug companies?
Hurt, I made an account just to respond to your topic. Me and my wife were both christians (I waited until our wedding day). Your story has so many similarities to mine. As I was reading your story I really connected with both you and her. Before you even mentioned the man in the email I was thinking, "She's found someone else and he hasn't realized it yet."
I haven't shared my story on here yet, I will probably do it soon. I can tell you with 100% certainty that your wife is either cheating on you, or is going to very shortly. That may mean an emotional affair or physical or both. I just went through everything you are and was in complete denial that my wife could do something that crazy, and after I found out, could not believe how naive and stupid I was. I can tell you that if my wife would cheat, yours can too. Everyone is fallible, especially when they are hurting.
From everything you are telling me I can tell that you are a good guy, a good husband, and a good father. You are doing so many things right. Your heart is in the right place. Where you need work is not in your heart, it’s learning to apply your energy differently. Your wife is not satisfied, she has made this clear. It doesn’t matter how hard you are working or what you are doing, if you want to stay married you need to find out what she REALLY needs to feel supported. It doesn’t matter if you come home and clean the whole entire house and spit-polish all the furniture with a diaper. If she is telling you you don’t do enough around the house, it means that what you’re doing isn’t hitting her buttons. What really helped me with this is the 5 Love Language book. When I realized that my energy was being spent in the wrong place, making the change was ENJOYABLE.
Another thing that it looks like you struggle with, as did I, is stepping up and being the leader in the house. You’ll see a lot of talk on the forums about alpha and beta traits and what not. What I can tell you is that being the spiritual head of the house is very Alpha and very sexy. If you have seen Courageous, the last speech in the movie exudes the spirit of being Alpha, it’s just directed in a Christian way. Saving yourself for marriage, being a man of integrity, knowing your spiritual values, these are all very attractive to a woman and is probably why she was so attracted to you initially. You need to make sure you stand up for your values and integrity in the house just the same. You’ve started to do that and seen a positive impact, don’t stop. Know who you are.
As far as the other guy, you need to take action quickly. The biggest mistake I made is that I didn’t trust my gut, and that I tried to appease my wife instead of standing up for what I knew was right. Your wife is already in lying, rationalization mode. She didn’t admit anything was going on or say she was sorry, she denied and she got super defensive. She knows you can read her emails now so she is going to communicate in other venues. As you work to better yourself and your marriage, you need to be extremely cautious of your wife. Do not tell her you know ANYTHING yet. Keep it all to yourself. Any source of information you reveal will be deemed useless after that. If I was in your shoes, I would install keyloggers, check emails, phone records, text messages, and even install GPS in her car or purse. Your wife is vulnerable, this guy is running game on her, and she is not stopping it. That means she is either all aboard or she is thinking about it. What I recommended may sound extremely paranoid, but it needs to be done. I lived in denial for 6 weeks about my wife, even texted the guy (who was a Christian and an old friend of hers) about emailing my wife to make sure he wasn’t trying to disrespect her. I found out later that they were sex messaging eachother and planning for a trip so they could have a sexfest over a long weekend. I found this out AFTER she had a one-night stand with someone on a girls night out, while I was at home watching the kids cleaning the house so she would feel special when she got home. My Christian wife, who I saved myself for. Don’t be as naïve as I was. ALL of the warning signs are there. Do not ignore them.
I, like you, began to realize something wasn’t right before **** hit the fan so I had some time to prepare myself and was in a good position to spot what was going on. Had I not realized what was going on my wife might have ended up cheating for months without me knowing it.
I can't tell you exactly what to do at this point, I can only tell you what I did and how it helped. Counseling at this point is a must. Sounds like you guys need marriage and individual counseling. I also picked up the Love Dare. It helped me get in the right state of mind from trying to be rationalized that my wife was crazy, to realizing that I had my own part to play and was 50% responsible for our marriage problems. And I believe that 100% for myself and for you. Up to the point where your wife is unfaithful to you, you own your marriage problems 50%. You are a standup guy, I can tell, but don’t be so proud that you can’t see your own failures. Recognizing your part to play is a huge step, one that many guys can’t make, and I’m glad that you are man enough to spot that and act on it.
Second, while I did the Love dare I read the 5 Love Language book. This really helped me to focus on loving my wife in a way that meant something to her. It also helped me be vocal about what I needed from her.
Last, when I started to sense that something wasn’t right and suspected an emotional affair, I picked up Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson. This is what gave me the courage to walk out on my wife after she continued to be deceptive, and is what lead to her being honest with me about the situation and our reconciliation. I wish I would have read the book earlier. When I suspected my wife was having an emotional affair I started getting “clingy” and I think this drove her away. Conversely, I was trying to give her space so I let her text her “friends” and go out on girls nights. So I was giving her space where I should have given her none and being clingy where I should have been confident and assured.
My wife and I talk about this now, she’s not really sure I could have done anything at the time to stop it from happening (if I would have stopped her from going out that night she would have resented me and driven her away more), but it would have been nice for me to have ALL the facts on my own terms and allow her to come clean and tell me everything and see if she was really being honest. If nothing else, if your marriage doesn’t work out you have the evidence for a nice court case.
I can tell you that through all the bull****, our marriage is a million times stronger and in many ways better. There is real hope here. If you get through this your marriage will not be the same, you will know your wife in a deeper way. Once you know what pleases your wife, you will want to satisfy her every day. Think of it as an emotional orgasm.
It has also given us a real godly desire to help other people in the same boat. We have 2 friends in almost the exact same situation, and our mistakes are allowing us to be there for them in ways that few people can. It gives me an intense desire to help people such as yourself from experiencing what is probably the worst pain in the world (I think it must be greater than death, which is a loss of person but not in trust. An affair is experiencing the same loss, but in addition, you question that your relationship even existed at all).
Here's another clue that things are getting worse. After my decision to not be a doormat any more, things have been calmer for a while. However, tonight we were making Christmas plans. Another subject came up that I've known was going to be touchy this year; our anniversary is a week before Christmas. I asked her what she wanted to do for it. She said, "Well we've got church duties that day, and I really don't want to go on a date with you, so....." and her voice trailed off. I asked her, "So do you want to pretend our wedding never happened?" Probably the wrong thing to say, but it tells me things are very, very dead in her mind. She didn't respond one way or another.
We ended up arguing over the dumbest things tonight. I had opened a couple of windows at her request earlier in the night. Before going to bed, I said, "Do you want me to close the windows for you?" She went off on me, asking me if I was implying it was the woman's job to close windows and if I was trying to make myself sound noble or something for doing "a woman's job." I just sat there dumbfounded. How can such an innocent question get twisted so badly?
I keep wondering if the family history she's had may be part of this. Both her mom and dad have some extremely manipulative, deceitful family members in their extended family. One uncle is actually in prison for murdering his wife. There have been suicides, accusations of other murders (unproven), sexual abuse of minors and satanism. Fortunately, the family has broken off all contact with the worst offenders.
Just to give you a little glimpse of how bad all this can be, her mom and dad have ceased all contact with my wife's twin sister because of some extremely poor life choices the sister made. I can understand that, because boundaries need to occasionally be enforced. What's troubling is they introduce my wife to new friends by saying, "This is our angel daughter. We also have a demon daughter, but you'll never meet her because we don't talk to her any more." Her mom made an off-handed comment once that the whole family would be better off if my wife's sister were just dead. She immediately apologized, but how did something like that come out of someone's mouth in the first place? What sane parent says that about their own child?
I wonder if they're starting to see me now as someone else to avoid. In other words, when I make an innocent mistake or do something thoughtless, are they interpreting my actions through the lens of their previous experiences with family members. And since she tells her mom and dad everything about any of our disagreements (even though I've repeatedly told her that's a very bad idea), they are probably filling her head with all sorts of evil images of me. Hard to fight something like that.
Not sure what to do. A lot of my Christian friends are starting to wonder aloud if I've reached the point of either considering a divorce or just accepting that I'll be miserable until the day I die. I can't quite mentally cross the divorce bridge, but I would also like to think that God's got bigger things in mind for me than enduring a miserable marriage until I die.
I guess what I need more than anything right now is for my brother and sister Christians to pray that God will give me wisdom as to what my next move should be.
I am astonished from the complete devotion that you have shown your w. I am brought to tears reading all that you are doing for your family. Your wife should be ashamed of herself for not acknowledging the extreme efforts you have made for her. I have MS and I would kill to have my h do just a portion of what you do! Although you say that you are not perfect nor a martyr, in my book you are damn close to it!! It's sad that she can't appreciate you as the "nice guy" ( it makes it even harder on us w's who truly need one). From what I've read, she seems to be the type of woman who needs to have boundaries, so great job with putting your foot down. However, also from reading your post, it seems like you are the type of person that naturally wants to help and wants to make the lives of those around you better....a true christian!!! I can't imagine how torn you are feeling. It has to be quite tiring to give and not receive.
As a Christian, I too understand the distaste in even thinking about a divorce, however you have to think about YOUR health and happiness. It was mentioned earlier about counseling, (sorry if I missed your response), if your w doesn't want to do it, you should definitely try yourself for just a little peace of mind.
Good luck and God Bless... and tell your w to be thankful for the UNBELIEVABLY devoted, supportive and loving h she has in you...she doesn't know how good she really has it!!!!!
Thanks for your kind words. But really, I do know there are times I haven't been as thoughtful as I should have been. It's just hard to be thoughtful the day after you've been called some of the terrible things she's called me.
And I appreciate the thoughts at the end, but I doubt if me passing along your message will help things much. She'll probably see it as further proof that I am a self-centered jerk who only cares about how others see me. But I do appreciate your kind words.
Getting extremely touchy over silly things, where this is a departure from normal behavior, is another big warning sign that she's involved with someone else. It's a way of justifying her going outside of the relationship. If you were captain sweetheart she'd be a huge jerk for cheating, if she can make you into a thoughtless butthead, then she can rationalize involvement with someone else without feeling guilty.
It's going to be hard going for you, and I pray for wisdom for you during this time. It's going to test your character, and you're going to walk away from this changed. No matter what happens with your marriage, you're going to grow closer to God (you will need to rely on him), and you're life will not be the same. It will take time, but in time you will see the good that will come from this through all the hurt.
No matter what happens with your wife, remember that she is the mother of your son and she'll be involved in your life forever. Even though the human in me wanted to destroy my wife's life and reputation, I made the choice to love her and respect her as a person no matter where our relationship went. I am so thankful that God had been working in my heart in the weeks that lead up to me finding out. If I had not known the mercy of God and his love even through OUR unfaithfulness to him, I would not have had the ability to love my wife through this. You must CHOOSE to love, even through the highest level of betrayal. If you can do that, you will have true peace and your decisions will be effortless because your heart will be in the right place. You will still experience pain, but there will be hope behind it.
Please keep us informed of what's going on. I will be praying for you.
I am curious about how I should handle the whole anniversary issue. Should I just let the day pass without even a mention of it? The "No More Mr. Nice Guys" out there would probably say "Absolutely." She's the one acting like we're already emotionally divorced, so let her live with the consequences.
But that still seems a little cold. She's already said she doesn't want to go out with me on our anniversary. And I know that the chances of actually being intimate that day are about equal with Herman Cain's chances with his wife (except I wasn't unfaithful).
Do I at least get her a card? Flowers? Say "Happy Anniversary?" Or should I just pretend it's any other day in December because she has effectively shut me out?
What's a good way to handle a situation like this without appearing weak one hand, but also without appearing to be a snot on the other?
I'm still learning how to apply this "No More Nice Guy" stuff.
I definitely wouldn't do anything to appear desperate or clingy. At the least I would give her a card letting her know that you respect her and value her as a person and as a good mother. If you want to "do something" I would plan activity you could do, something that doesn't require full concentration on the other person (like Dinner would be out but maybe painting or go-karts). You can let her know that you made fun plans for the anniversary and you'd enjoy her company but if she doesn't want to come you are still going to go.
If she says no, go out and have a fun time. Don't answer the phone while you're out. Make sure you do something you're sure to enjoy so you'll actually come back with a smile on your face.
It will be a challenge if she considers her "God" her CHURCH. That's my criticism of christianity, they speak so much about a relationship with God, yet why do they dictate so hard on how an individual's relationship with God should or should not be?
It's a spiritual journey for INDIVIDUALS. Bah!
"Never look to men for God"... oh the irony!
We're not particularly tied to one church. We are members and regular attenders of a specific church and we have many Godly friends at this church to whom we are both looking for advice. But we would not hesitate to worship somewhere else if we felt God were directing us to leave our current body of believers.
While your relationship with God is ultimately between you and Him, it's not good to try to work out that relationship in a vacuum. You need other believers to help you gain perspective. Yes, the church as a whole has had problems with trying to control people over the last two centuries. But I believe that overall, the contribution of churches to helping people out far outweighs the occasions when they fall short of God's glory.
I was a full-time pastor for about two years when I was much younger. I can tell you all kinds of behind-the-scenes stories about the church missing the mark. But I still believe overall the church is a good thing.
That being said, my wife and I have never hesitated to leave a church where we did not feel God was the focus. Years ago, we moved to Tennessee and were checking out churches in the area. We attended one that looked very modern and squared away on the outside, but inside it made us feel so creepy that we actually stood up and walked out in the middle of the pastor's sermon. I can't explain it, but it just seemed that there was almost a cult-like dedication to the pastor.
For example, no one in the church would say "Amen" unless he did; the moment he said "Amen," the whole crowd broke into this chant of "Amen, Amen, Amen" until the pastor said something else and then the amens immediately stopped. We also noticed that anytime someone got up to go the restroom or whatever, an usher would appear and escort them out the back door and wait until they came back and then escort them back to their pews. Very odd. Even had a couple of ushers chase us to the parking lot to ask what was wrong.
Later on, we discovered this place was rumored to be a snake-handling church. No wonder we felt creeped out by the place!
the ironies & the hypocrisiescan be overwhelming at times, especially when u hear so called pastors putting down other pastors be they little or big time "names". u cut yer preachers
some slack at first, the christian thing to do of course, but u get tired of seeing no repentence, no humbleness, just arrogance and other satanic characteristics (when u get down to it).
we all error, but leaders have to lead by example, and by having a servant mentality as our saviour did, not SEEKING to
be served.
yet, God in his wisdom uses them still to do help us who are seeking HIM diligently, by either confronting these pastors or
teaching desperate for fellowship believers to just get up/pack up and leave by obeying the H>S> voice/prompting/unction(s).
I am still looking, still hoping, still praying, as i teeter back n forth with being confrontational &/or timid.
better still, to be an instrument for the H>S> to work any way
H>S> chooses to use me. Praise God for HIS patience, Grace &
Mercy with me & others like me.
I definitely wouldn't do anything to appear desperate or clingy. At the least I would give her a card letting her know that you respect her and value her as a person and as a good mother. If you want to "do something" I would plan activity you could do, something that doesn't require full concentration on the other person (like Dinner would be out but maybe painting or go-karts). You can let her know that you made fun plans for the anniversary and you'd enjoy her company but if she doesn't want to come you are still going to go.
If she says no, go out and have a fun time. Don't answer the phone while you're out. Make sure you do something you're sure to enjoy so you'll actually come back with a smile on your face.
That sounds like pretty reasonable advice! I just might do it that way. Thanks!
Been feeling kind of stuck this week. My wife has actually been acting nicer toward me, which is kind of messing with my head. Until tonight, that is. She was having a good day physically, so she spent several hours reorganizing our panty and kitchen cabinets. Then when I got home she lectured me about how messy I was and how she wanted me to promise to do a better job of keeping the pantry straight.
I kept my anger in check, but stuff like this really grates on me. The reason I don't always put the peanut butter back on the "right" shelf is because when I made the last peanut butter sandwich, I was also mopping the floor, changing our toddler's diaper, and serving her supper on the couch (because she hurts too much to sit up at the table at the end of the day).
So I spend 6 weeks trying to help meet her needs and then she feels energetic for one day and suddenly I'm the problem? Again, not trying to play martyr here. She does do as much around the house during the day (when I'm at work) as someone with her condition could be expected to. It's just that I do a lot, too, and then to be lectured as if I'm some kind of irresponsible teen just really irritates me!
Also, the "virtual divorce" thing is getting old. I may sound selfish, but I feel as if I'm trapped. She refuses to have sex with me, but I'm bound by my morals and vows to not seek it elsewhere. What's the point of staying married if we're just going to be co-babysitters? I'm still not contemplating divorce, but I just feel so stuck; it's like someone died, and yet I'm not allowed to move on.
Hurt...I havn't read every word in this thread ( I am too fidgitty and caffinated,lol,coffee and pepsi) but man oh man,this thread sounds too terrible to be true. If you are being honest with all this I do feel sorry for you brother but...I also admire you and kinda envy you for your patience and care. IF you are being honest then man you have qualities that very few men have.
My lord!!!! The effort you have put forth should make you a candidate for every councilor and every marriage help to be free that is available. If I were a professional therapist or councilor I would offer you totally free help of any and all I could do. Your situation,in my opinion warrants you to any free book you would want to write or any television program to pay all expenses to have you and your story brought to national attention to get you and your wife good free help!
Don't know if you have said or not...but is there any chance that your wife might be a closet alcoholic or be hooked on drugs bad? I don't mean that mean or harsh at all but she does sound to me like someone that could have a terrible addiction,I hope not. Maybe it is from the family issures that her family has had. If so...I would to God that every real and genuine christain that knows how to really get ahold of God would start a fast and prayer chain for you and your wife. I would love to see God do a real,literal,visible miracle for you and her.
I am sorry to say but my upcoming divorce in two days has caused me to backslide and run from God. But I do know he still does work miracles just like he did in the bible. I have seen real,visible,un-deniable miralces of visable healings that couldn't be faked and I have seen God do the impossible many times. Your wife and marriage seem to need the deliverance power of God to work a miracle. Her family had a demonic influence it sounds like and needs a strong miracle from God to get rid of it. Guess I don't care to seek that for my marriage anymore but I do hope that miracle for yours.
About you anniversay date and how you are coping with her...don't be mean to her but maybe you might want to try to be neutral about somethings and see if she may come to realize that you have been too good to lose. Don't know,but I wish you all the best!
You're feelings of being trapped are completely normal for your situation. Hurt, there's a good chance your wife is involved with someone else, if that's true it means that right now YOU are the one working to save your marriage. That's very taxing. A marriage by nature requires two people that are dedicated to making it work.
I remember in the time of my wife's cheating, I had a lot of the same feelings. "Why am I trying so hard to make this work when she is so hateful and callus towards me??"
Assuming she is cheating, it's not going to get better until she's remorseful. Up until that point, you can only act like the better person to try and convince her that you are the man for her. Continue working to meet her needs as much as possible and be as calm as you can. It makes it harder and harder for her to lie to herself about how bad she has it (which makes it easier to rationalize cheating).
Has anything turned up on the snooping front? Did you install a keylogger? VAR in the car? GPS? Check texting? CC bills? Phone records?
1Likes
Re: Is there hope? 
It's sad that she can't appreciate you as the "nice guy" ( it makes it even harder on us w's who truly need one). From what I've read, she seems to be the type of woman who needs to have boundaries, so great job with putting your foot down. However, also from reading your post, it seems like you are the type of person that naturally wants to help and wants to make the lives of those around you better....a true christian!!! I can't imagine how torn you are feeling. It has to be quite tiring to give and not receive.
