hurtnohio

I've posted in other parts of this forum, but I need the perspective of other believers. I respect everyone on this forum, but I want to discuss things with people who share the same spiritual background I do. I'm sorry if I'm going over old material again, and I'm sorry this is so long.

My wife and I are both protestant Christians. We saved ourselves for marriage, but our honeymoon was a disaster. She had been so traumatized by her parents' negative views of sex that she couldn't open up and be sexual with me. In fact, we ended up going to a sex therapist. It was almost a year into our marriage before we could actually enjoy sex, without it being painful for her. Sadly, that sort of set the precedent for the rest of our marriage. It's an exceptionally hot time for us if we have sex a couple of times every 6 weeks. As a man with what I would consider "normal" sex urges, that never seems to be enough. Sometimes I've asked God, "Why did I wait for THIS?"

For many years, we thought we couldn't have children. After 15 years, God blessed us with our son. He's been the joy of our lives.

My wife also has been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. For a while, her symptoms were well controlled by taking Cymbalta. After about 3 years, the Cymbalta began losing its effectiveness and we eventually discontinued treatment. About that same time, her parents recommended she see a "naturopathic" doctor who guaranteed she could cure fibro. But she also preached at us about the evils of vaccines for our son (which I am a big believer in). I had some deep misgivings about this naturopath, and asked my wife to not make any decisions about whether we would go to her until I had prayed and felt more clear about it. I believe this was the beginning of some deep resentment. My wife felt that I wasn't taking her pain seriously enough because I wasn't enthusiastically pursuing every possible avenue for healing. This caused us a lot of heartburn. Finally, we did travel halfway across the country to see this naturopath. We ended up spending over $1500 on treatments and supplements, but there was no improvement.

Around this same time, my wife started complaining that I didn't help out enough around the house. Now I have always done about half the cooking, dishwashing and nearly all the laundry. I'm not the neatest person in the world, but I at least make sure the dishes are clean and the laundry is pressed. I try to do more, but she has forbidden me to do her laundry because I always put things in the wrong drawers and whatnot.

One night, she met me at the door and said things needed to change. She needed me to do more. When I told her I was doing the best I could, she said she didn't believe that I was or else our house would be in better shape. At one point, she even said if I didn't improve, we might as well split up.

With both of us being conservative Christians, one of the things we had always agreed on was that we would never even mention the possibility of divorce (except for infidelity or abuse). That night was possibly the lowest point of our marriage. I have never admitted this to anyone, but the thought of suicide actually entered my mind that night. It was no more than a thought, and thankfully God helped me fight my way past that thought, but I was floored.

Nevertheless, I tried. But I somehow I never could please her. I could clean the diaper pail, wash a load of laundry and premix the formula bottle for the next day. But if I forgot to wipe the tablecloth off after dinner, I would get scolded. Usually with great sarcasm.

Somewhere in all this, her uncle murdered his wife in a heinous act of domestic violence. Nearly everyone in the family had an anecdote to tell about all the red flags that had led up to this act; consequently, many family members were called to testify against him. As it turned out, he pled out at the last minute and there was no trial. During this time of turmoil, my wife and I got marginally closer, possibly because we had a common crusade to engage in. Once the uncle went to prison, it seemed to me that our unity eroded.

She started blaming me for things that to me seem silly. One night we were on a trip and as I was about to go to bed, she asked me to close the bedroom window before I went to sleep. But I got into a conversation with my dad, she ended up going to bed before me, and I figured she had done it. It ended up turning cold overnight, and our son - who was also in the room - and I caught a cold. All the next week, she was fuming at me for being so irresponsible as to make our son sick. Every time he coughed or just felt pathetic, she scolded me again for not closing that window.

As he was learning to crawl, he would frequently crawl behind my feet without me knowing it. I sometimes would back up and trip over him. No serious injuries ever occurred, but it would frequently scare him and make him cry. She would then scold me and tell me I didn't care enough about him.

We also began arguing about discipline. I'll admit that there were a couple of times that I disciplined him for issues that I took to be willful defiance, but which in reality were probably just a toddler being a toddler. I have never been abusive in my discipline, but I admit there have been times I was probably unfair. My dad was strong, silent type so I'm having to figure out how to be a Christian dad as I go along. But in my wife's mind, she sees being unfair and abusive as one and the same. Before long, she's telling family members I'm abusive.

She's accused me of being verbally abusive to her. I've never called her names, ever. I do raise my voice on occasion when we're in a heated argument and she's already raised her voice to me. On the other hand, she's called me things like, "Bi-polar, arrogant, not a real man, crazy, lazy, and hateful." I once told her something she had done hurt my feelings, and she sarcastically said "Oh, boo-hoo-hoo about your precious little feelings." One day when I wasn't quick enough to open the car door for her, she stood stamping her foot in our driveway yelling, "Has it occurred to you that I'm sick?!?!?"

She's had a hard time accepting limitations on what she can do physically as a result of her condition. She'll try to prove that she can still do things like cut the grass on a 100-degree heat index day. She'll then be practically bedridden for the next several days. So occasionally, I feel the need to firmly remind her that she needs to take it easy. She tells her family members that I'm being verbally abusive by telling her she can't do anything. Sometimes, the way I hear our conversations characterized, I almost wonder if she's talking about the same event! Where my intentions were to help her remember not to hurt herself, she tells everyone that I was out to demoralize and belittle her.

She read somewhere on the Internet that dry climates can help fibromyalgia. Now she is all excited about moving to Arizona, Utah or Idaho. The problem is, I don't have a job in Arizona, Utah or Idaho, and I'm the sole provider. Unfortunately, I'm in an industry where it's not easy to drop everything and change employers. I want to go where God wants us to go, but I just don't feel that quitting my job and moving to Idaho is the best move for us right now. She accuses me of putting money before her health.

Recently, some things she has said made me think she was again contemplating divorce. In desperation, I checked her e-mail since I knew if she was planning that, she would probably e-mail her family about it. What I found was a bunch of e-mails between her and her twin sister's ex-husband. It's a long and dysfunctional story, but her sister has been ostracized by the family, but the ex-husband has remained close. The e-mails were very one-sided, but disturbing. He would send things like "You and (our son) have a piece of my heart." Or "Hey sweetie, how's your day going?" When we took our son to our local fire department's open house, I found an e-mail from him saying, "I wish it were me taking you two to the fire house." He offered to take some time off work and drive down some day when I was out of town and take the two of them out for ice cream. He sent her a "happy sweetest day" e-mail and said, "What kind of brownie points do I get? I know what I have in mind, but I'll see what you come up with."

She never responded inappropriately, but she never shut him down either. Worst of all, she never told me about these e-mails. When I asked her about them, she said the thought of having an affair with him was "gross" and that he was like a brother, no more. I said I suspected he had a different view of things. She told me I had no right to spy on her and she promptly changed her e-mail address so I couldn't see anything else. Then she forwarded me an e-mail from him that basically was taunting me through an e-mail to her. So rather than taking my concerns seriously, she immediately ran to him and told him what I had done and then they both taunted me.

Now I really don't think she's had an affair with him. But I'm disturbed at how she responded to my concerns.

She's kicked me out of our bedroom, and insisted that I not sleep in the master room, even when she's out of town. She's declared it her "sanctuary," her one chance to get away from me and have peace. We haven't had sex since February. She says she's resigned herself to being my roommate and staying together even in misery for our son's sake. She's even considering quitting our Christian counselor because she feels like all the sessions are "bash the wife" night.

I'm writing because I'm truly hurting. I have become stronger and more certain of myself through all this. I used to internalize her complaints, but I've now realized that the issues are hers and hers alone. I'm not claiming to be a perfect husband or father - far from it. But I love them both and want to do what's best. I'm a bit dense at times and don't always know the right things to say, but my heart is always in the right place. (Her response is that it doesn't matter what my intent was, the result is that I did something wrong, so my intentions are irrelevant. She's actually said that with a straight face more than once!)

So, fellow believers, is there hope? In my humanity, I've got to admit that I miss being close to her. I miss sex. I want someone to love. I had hoped it would be her. Divorce is not an option, so I can't fall in love with someone else. But I had hoped God had so much more in store for us than just a bland sense of misery for the sake of our vows.

There are many on this forum who have told me it's time to cut her loose. If it were not for my Christian upbringing in the belief that divorce is a sin unless there's adultery or abuse, I might agree. On the other hand, I don't want to continue with things like they are.

I miss having a real marriage. I feel as if there's no hope; I can't move on, but what I have is just the illusion of a marriage. There is no emotional or physical intimacy. For now, the marriage is a farce. I really miss being able to talk to her about what's important to the both of us. Did I mention that I miss what little sex we used to have?

Does God care what I'm going through? Is there hope that this can ever change? How can two Christians who supposedly want to obey God end up like this?

Shaggy

Hurt, I really think there is loving in a Christian marriage, thrn there is being used and abused. Your wife is a bit of a bully, the bring kicked out of her sanctuary for instance. That is not the act of a woman living in a Christian marriage. That is the act of selfish possibly lslightoy crazy abusive person. As a Christian she should be working to build a strong marriage with her husband, not pushing him as far away, just short of diviorce as she can.

I not know there are huge red flags that either she is cheating, or she is going over the deep end. I'm sorry, but either way, Christian or not divorce and getting you away fom her abuse and weird gmes maybe the best course.
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Dadof3

HurtInOhio: Read the following three books and some of the posts in the Infidelity section of this board.

1 - No More Mr Nice Guy
2 - Hold on to your Nutz
3 - Married Mans Sex Life Primer

I understand your background (I have a similar one), yet I found these books very valuable to "manning up". I hate to say this, but the best thing you'll ever do in this relationship is "man up".

And one other thing - you wife is having an emotional affair, based on your story.

Now think about this: You have nothing to lose anymore. Its time to establish your boundaries in the marriage and let her know what you are going to do.

You sleep in your bed in your house. Do NOT do the chores for her anymore. If she wants to chat with her twin sisters Ex - she does it on her own dime, in her own place at her OWN EXPENSE.

Tell her you won't tolerate disrespect anymore and won't live in an open marriage (emotional or physical) and that you'll be happy to help her pack and call her a cab.

Take our word - you have to get strong to recover from this. Don't be mean or violent - just stick to the facts. I understand your belief system and hold a similar one myself. There is nothing in our belief systems that forces us to be door mats to our beloved spouses.

There is hope. It also wouldn't hurt to explain to her that her relationship with her sisters X is cheating - even if there hasn't been any physical (what is his proximity to your home?) - she's clearly disrespecting you by associating with him (he's a predator!) and you are letting her DISRESPECT you.

Find your NU*S and put them back on. Christian leadership demands a confident man who knows when to let them go. Maybe she needs a dose of reality (life).

Do NOT be needy with her, or show emotion (like crying, moping) - just state your boundaries and if she violates them - drop the "hammer" and enforce the consequences for violating those boundaries.

hurtnohio

It may not sound like it, but I have become a stronger man through all of this. I used to internalize all the bad things she said about me and I saw myself as the failure she thinks I am. But lately, I've found myself saying things like: "I know you think I should have gotten more chores done last night, but I feel good about what I did do and I don't need you to scold me as if I were a child."

It hasn't exactly made our love life return, but it has cut down the arguing. I think she's actually taken aback when I stand up for myself.

I have a long history myself. I have an emotionally abusive mom who was overstaying her welcome for quite a while until my wife and I took a stand to establish some boundaries with her. She went off the deep end and threatened to either kill herself or sue us for mandated grandparent's visits (we had never threatened to terminate her visits; we just ask her to respect our house rules when she was here). So we cut off all contact with her for a year. We are slowly working to rebuild the relationship with my mom after she spent several sessions with a counselor (our condition to re-establish contact), but it'll be a long road there.

So now that I've established boundaries with my mom, I guess it's time to do so with my wife. It's weird how my wife can so clearly see my mom's inappropriate behavior for what it is, but has such a difficult time recognizing it in herself.

I'm not claiming to be perfect. Like most men, I don't listen as well as I should. I don't always pick up on subtle cues from our son as quickly as she does with her "mommy sense." I can sometimes be sarcastic, even when I don't mean to be. But I honestly don't think any of my faults are so bad that they justify the way she has behaved the past two years. And for the first time in our marriage, I'm starting to tell her exactly that.

I posted last night because I am just tired of never being allowed to be intimate (either physically or just to have a normal conversation) with her, and yet because of my vows I can't go be intimate with anyone else either (I don't have anyone particular in mind - I actively guard against flirting or other lead-ins to EAs). I feel as if I'm living in a no-man's land where my marriage is not really a marriage, and yet my vows keep me locked into a place where I can never seek what my soul craves. I think God meant it when he said it wasn't good for man to be alone, and I sure feel alone. If it weren't for our son, there would be absolutely zero joy in this house.

But I do sense that I need to ratchet up my Christian leadership a notch. I always thought leadership meant you took the family to church every Sunday, said prayers with the little guy every night, and made sure our spending patterns honored God. I'm starting to realize that leadership also means demanding that there be no disrespect in our house.

Stay tuned. It could be an interesting year....

Bartimaus

Wow....I am in Ohio and I am hurt too but brother,though I have put up with things that other men may not put up with. Your woman and I wouldn't get along for even one day.
Maybe this is a little out of line but she sounds like she is either not interested in you and married for other reasons or she is cheating. You tell of two things about her that I couldn't cope with at all 1. The nagging 2. Not wanting sex.
Get christain counciling and all the help you can get because there is always a chance everything can greatly improve. But I think she needs to work on herself first,then work on the marriage.

anx

I agree. WOW.

Your wife has a lot she is doing wrong. Resigning to living as a roommate is pretty horrible. She very well might come out of it and realize her mistake, but that might take a lot of time.

She didn't start out very stable and the issues with health have beat her down and she is making bad and unhealthy decisions emotionally.

Pray hard and keep fighting the good fight.

This can be fixed, but not by you. Its up to her and God. You pushing hard might help or hurt. Stay on the side of whats right, biblical, and realize how hurt/messed up your wife is right now. Empathize with that, but at the same time DO NOT BE OK WITH HER SIN.

Be a loving husband to a wife who is totally lost.

Blessings.

hurtnohio

In a way, I blame myself. Looking back, I don't think she did start out very stable. She has some real hurts in her past. I saw some very subtle hints of this when we were dating, but we always worked it out and came out stronger. Little things like her coming completely undone if I got lost driving to a fancy restaurant for a date. She would nag me about not caring enough about her to plan properly. But it would be a once in a 6 month thing, so I thought it was something we could work through. I was young and ignorant (I was 25, she was 20 when we got married). But she was also fun-loving, care-free, compassionate toward those in need, and thought the world of me so I overlooked what now seem like pretty obvious warning signs.

For a while, she blamed me for making her sick. Fibromyalgia is exaggerated with stress, and she said the stress I put her under made her sick. She also blames me because I don't want to move out west right away (I'm willing to consider it if God provides a job or other way to pay for relocation, but think it unwise to just move without any means of financial support).

I believe that the anger and hostility she's harboring in her heart toward me is doing far more to cause stress (even sickness) than me forgetting to put the milk away after breakfast.

anx

My story is in my profile and we have some similarities. I really hope things go well for you. I honestly think you are in for a very long road.

The best encouragement I can give is to do what's right because it's right.

Blessings.

metta

Hi,

I'll just comment quickly on your wife's condition.

Fibromyalgia is a "new illness". It didn't exist up to recent times. The cause is extremly likely to be heavy metal poisonning (esp. mercury). Get informed about it, it also probably explains part of your wife's moods. Has your wife metallic tooth fillings? These are the main source of mercury poisoning.
I am not kidding here, heavy metal poisonning is real. Different people have different metabolic abilities to detoxify their bodies. A whole family (relatives of mine) have been affected had cured from that. The ONLY way to cure that is through chelation.

She has reasonable grounds to say such a thing. Mercury derivatives are used as a preservative in various drugs and vaccines.
Thiomersal controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This happened to a friend of my wife. She got her son vaccined, and a week later she clearly saw a difference in his behaviour; her son turned autist very quickly.

A diet entirely excluding diary products and certain carbohydrate (like bread, pasta, etc.) might bring some improvements in the symptoms, but that will not cure the illness. Only proper chelation can heal that.

Please note that I am not qualified to say anything I said in this post! Please take professional advice!

Good luck!

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Wow! Your wife is unbelievably selfish and mean! I broke my neck 3 years ago and I still live in severe chronic pain. With the help of the pain clinic, I'm able to live a somewhat normal life. My husband and I never expect anything from one another. We do the things we do for each other out of love. I do not ever deny him sex either...ever. We have never in our 12 year marriage called each other a name. Actually, we never argue. I have never asked my husband to do any extra work around the house since my injury. He works very hard and brings all the money home. That in itself is enough.

Your wife is the one abusing you. She's also belittling and undermining you in the process. You need to stand up for yourself and not let her do this to you. Denying you sex is just plain wrong. It appears your wife no longer loves you. Your wife needs to change as well. She needs to start respecting, admiring, and praise you for all the hard work you put into your marriage and household. Also, both my husband and I have each others passwords for everything on the computer. Neither of us have anything to hide. If your wife was a good Christian, she wouldn't be so selfish and rude to you. Religion should not be a deciding factor in regards of staying in abusive marriage in my opinion.
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hurtnohio

As I've mentioned before, I feel that I am making progress at fixing my own issues. I don't know if my life changes are too little too late to turn things around in my marriage, but I'm at least taking responsibility for me.

Today was a typical interaction. A little background is in order; we own a rental property and suddenly the water usage there has spiked. Could be a water leak, could be a new girlfriend with 16 kids moved in. I've talked to the tenant (he says no one else has move in) and had one of the toilets fixed, but usage is still too high.

Also, to help keep track of our discretionary expenses, I've limited myself to a monthly cash allowance to blow on myself any way I want. She also has similar discretion over a certain percentage of our monthly income. Any large expenditures outside of my "blow it" money must be discussed between the two of us.

That's the background. Today, she's opening the bills and notices our water bill at our rental is still too high. She asked if I would call the tenant this weekend. Now it's Thanksgiving weekend, we've got family in town, we're probably going to the mall at least once this weekend, and deer season in Ohio starts Monday (!). I doubt if I'll have time to pick up the phone. Obviously, if the tenant called and the roof was leaking, I would move quicker. But the water usage has been high for three months now, so it's not exactly an issue that needs to be addressed in 24 hours. So I said, "No, but I'll call him sometime this week."

She blew her stack!! She said, "If the water bill stays high because of your procrastination, I'm taking it out of your allowance!" I told her that would be an unfair way to handle the issue. She continued to egg it on. I simply told her we weren't having this argument, I would call our tenant within the week, and to let the matter drop.

It may not seem like a big deal to anyone else here, but this is a huge sea change for me. In the past, I would have promised the impossible phone call on a holiday weekend. I would have probably given in to her demands to dock my allowance (what am I? 14?!?!). I can't even believe my wife would threaten my allowance if I didn't make a phone call within a certain amount of time, as if she were my mother, but at least I stood firm this time. In the past, I would have probably descended to her level and kept arguing about silly stuff. Then I would have moped around all weekend internalizing all the bad stuff she would have said about her perception of my level of responsibility.

I kept it calm, told her how it was going to be, and then told her to move on. It's amazing, but she was actually in a pretty good mood most of the rest of the day.

Her mood has improved ever so slightly. Now instead of being constantly miserable, our relationship is merely very bad. Sad to say, but this is a huge improvement.

Maybe there's something to this "No More Mr. Nice Guy" stuff.

hurtnohio

Didn't really mean to start a vaccine thread here. That's a debate that has not possible end, so let's save it for another forum.

My wife's health is an issue that indirectly relates to our relationship. I haven't been completely unwilling to try alternate treatments. I estimate that we've probably spent $10,000 on various "sure thing" alternative treatments in the last decade.

We've tried chiropractic, enzyme therapy, some kind of neurotransmitter therapy(gave her migraines so bad she had double vision), low carb diet modification, low fat diet modification, avoiding milk and eggs, digestive supplement therapy, food allergy bloodwork and subsequent diet modification, magnet therapy, and probably some others I can't remember. To speak directly to metta's concerns, she's had blood work, urine analysis and hair analysis that all show mercury is not issue.

That's one of the reasons it gets under my skin so much when she claims I don't care whether she lives or dies. Given my history of being willing to try almost anything, it really hurts me to have her say that. It's almost as if anything I've tried to do the last 18 years to be supportive didn't even count.

Shaggy

While heavy metal poisoning is real - it doesn't come from fillings or shots. Sorry folks, but the science and facts simply don't back up the paranoid ramblings of the paranoid.

Black cats don't cause bad luck, birds on the roof don't bring death, and cats don't steal babies breath.

The so called doctor/scientist in the UK who started whole mercury in shots causes autism has been fully discredited by the scientific community when he couldn't actually show any evidence for his crap claim. In fact he has since recanted his claim, admitting he made it up. The sad thing is how many people are jumping on the bandwagon of this self admitted charlatan.

the amount of mercury in shots does not cause autism. In fact the latest research (weeks old) seems to show that autism is caused by too many connections being formed in the brain of sufferers. They are basically too heavily wired - and this is cause by genetics - not a shot preservative.

hurtnohio

Thanks for your comments. I'm not trying to claim that I'm a martyr of that I'm perfect. There are plenty of times that I'm sure I've slacked a little bit. I do try to take a little time for me occasionally, so I hope it doesn't appear that I was trying to portray myself as more heroic than I am.

It's just that after a 10-hour work day, cooking, cleaning, playing with and bathing our son, putting him to bed and cutting the grass, I don't feel like I need to argue with her to justify the need to go to bed by 10:30 PM. That's when she frequently used to call me lazy (now, I just tell her I'm going to bed and I do it).

As to the lack of sex, she's made it clear that she is not engaging in sex because of our relationship issues. She's never claimed that her fibromyalgia is stopping her from having sex. It's 100% about the fact that she doesn't love me anymore.

I won't judge her relationship with God, even though she frequently judges mine. I honestly believe she has a distorted view of reality, where my every flaw is magnified 1,000 times and any good that I do is completely negated. That's what's frustrating, because trying to talk it out in a reasonable way usually leads no where but to more arguing.

metta

Hi Shaggy,

Everyone as to make his/her own opinion based on available facts.
I have 2 pieces of advice though:
- Be careful of the source of information; if you ask the scientific community "do you think that the vaccines and tooth fillings that you used for the past 50 years are causing autism and fibromyalgia?", the answer will receive is likely "no".
- Different people have different abilities to eliminate heavy metals depending on their genetical backgrounds; only a minority is unable to properly eliminate them; I have not seen a epidemiological study taking that into account (I would be happy if you could point me to one).

That was not my intention and I made it clear in my previous post. You can at least let your wife know about it, and she can get informed and/or take action if she so wishes.

Best regards