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post #16 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 07:56 AM
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Re: Sex in marriage

I was raised to believe that sex before marriage was a sin. I was also taught by my mother and grandmother that sex was something women tolerated for the sake of the man and not to expect it to be enjoyable.

I was a virgin when I met my husband. I had engaged in non PIV sexual activity in high school and college but I can't say I was overly experienced. Slept with my husband just a few weeks into the relationship. Can't say I enjoyed it, then or subsequently. But after what I had been taught, I was conditioned to believe that not enjoying it was normal for a woman. It took me years of what I now realize was lousy sex with a selfish lover to find out that sex could be enjoyable. And I only learned it through conversations with other women who did enjoy it, not through personal experience. I never once had an orgasm during PIV with my husband. And he obviously didn't care enough to try to change that. He never asked if I enjoyed it, if I needed something else, anything. He just pounded away for a few minutes, pulled out, and went to sleep (or left the room). Maybe if I'd had a few positive experiences before him I wouldn't have settled for that, but because I didn't know it could be good I never even questioned it. And I think he was glad I didn't know better because he could be selfish and get away with it.


The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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post #17 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sex in marriage

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Originally Posted by Hellomynameis View Post
I was raised to believe that sex before marriage was a sin. I was also taught by my mother and grandmother that sex was something women tolerated for the sake of the man and not to expect it to be enjoyable.

I was a virgin when I met my husband. I had engaged in non PIV sexual activity in high school and college but I can't say I was overly experienced. Slept with my husband just a few weeks into the relationship. Can't say I enjoyed it, then or subsequently. But after what I had been taught, I was conditioned to believe that not enjoying it was normal for a woman. It took me years of what I now realize was lousy sex with a selfish lover to find out that sex could be enjoyable. And I only learned it through conversations with other women who did enjoy it, not through personal experience. I never once had an orgasm during PIV with my husband. And he obviously didn't care enough to try to change that. He never asked if I enjoyed it, if I needed something else, anything. He just pounded away for a few minutes, pulled out, and went to sleep (or left the room). Maybe if I'd had a few positive experiences before him I wouldn't have settled for that, but because I didn't know it could be good I never even questioned it. And I think he was glad I didn't know better because he could be selfish and get away with it.

Good teaching could have solved that too. There are churches that teach that sex should be enjoyed by both. In fact, contrary to the prudish reputation given to the puritans if a woman complained that her husband wasn't satisfying her, he was called into the pastor's office for a stern conversation, before further action was taken. They also had a problem of older women divorcing their older husbands who couldn't perform sexually (no viagra/cialis back then) and marrying a slightly younger man who could still perform.

Bad teachings are responsible for a lot of breakdown in relationships today. Whether we get those teachings from sappy love songs, movies, or in your case, parents.

Even if I don't get likes for it, I'm still going to say it.
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post #18 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 08:18 AM
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Re: Sex in marriage

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Lots of people do wait for marriage till they have sex. Its well worth it.


Lots of those people just aren't that into sex. You see that all over this board.
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post #19 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 08:52 AM
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Re: Sex in marriage

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If you research you will find countless books/courses/dvds and cds about sex in marriage. WE are spoil for choice.
I've actually been involved in ministry in mainstream churches for nearly 20 years.

As far as books and information media, it is getting more plentiful but the churches are still beating dead horses with a lot of false information or lack of information in their teaching.
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post #20 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 09:11 AM
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Re: Sex in marriage

She has very little interest in sex, so very rarely wanted it. I didn't recognize this as a warning sign at the time.

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@uhtred: snip

@uhtred, you said you and your wife did not have much sex before. Was that by choice?
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post #21 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 09:32 AM
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Re: Sex in marriage

My opinion here is based solely on my experience being raised Catholic and attending Catholic schools through high school.

Good intentions clouded with hypocrisy. I think Catholicism has gotten better about sex and sexuality over the years but it still ruins it all with its stance on birth control. Well effective birth control I should say. They teach natural family planning where you measure temp, plot days, test mucus etc etc. ALL for the purpose of knowing when you are most fertile. Thus you know when you can have sex and NOT get pregnant. But condoms and the pill are bad? Ok.

Thats really all I remember being taught about sex in school. We have policies that will help pump out new Catholics and that is all you need to know.

Aside from that I have only been with my wife. We had sex quite often before being married. Has sex gotten better? Yeah overall I would say so. But I believe that is from time and becoming closer over 15 years.

"Masturbate with just a slick hand and thoughts of your wife." --Intheory
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post #22 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 09:33 AM
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Re: Sex in marriage

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Lots of those people just aren't that into sex. You see that all over this board.
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She has very little interest in sex, so very rarely wanted it. I didn't recognize this as a warning sign at the time.

See I have a hard time recognizing the value of waiting till after marriage beyond the religious aspect of this is what the bible teaches, especially considering issues such as what is pointed out above.

Perhaps OP can explain, outside of the religious approach, why do you think its better to wait.

I think @Diana7 also alluded to the value of waiting. So, why wait?
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post #23 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sex in marriage

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See I have a hard time recognizing the value of waiting till after marriage beyond the religious aspect of this is what the bible teaches, especially considering issues such as what is pointed out above.

Perhaps OP can explain, outside of the religious approach, why do you think its better to wait.

I think @Diana7 also alluded to the value of waiting. So, why wait?
Well, getting to know the person on an intellectual/emotional level is one. Sex, from my observation, usually distorts how you see the person. What do I mean? You become "connected" in a way. You are less likely to break up with someone for a bad quality when you are already banging them whereas if you weren't you probably would have dropped them with the quickness. Sex often seems like self medication to a bad relationship. There are problems, clear ones; but when you have sex they take a back seat. It works before marriage but when you two are married and living together it doesn't work anymore.

Even if I don't get likes for it, I'm still going to say it.
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post #24 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 11:38 AM
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Re: Sex in marriage

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Originally Posted by Keke24 View Post
See I have a hard time recognizing the value of waiting till after marriage beyond the religious aspect of this is what the bible teaches, especially considering issues such as what is pointed out above.

Perhaps OP can explain, outside of the religious approach, why do you think its better to wait.

I think @Diana7 also alluded to the value of waiting. So, why wait?
Just my opinion, but maybe because you're saving that very special first time for the person you actually love enough to be taking a lifetime vow with? Maybe I'm just overly romantic. But I'm glad my first time was with my husband. I'm glad that I was faithful to him even though our sex life was lousy. And I'm sorry that due to our split he won't be my one and only sexually for my whole lifetime unless I choose to remain alone.

The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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post #25 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 11:42 AM
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Re: Sex in marriage

I can see the romantic appeal of your first time being with the person with whom you want to spend the rest of your life. OTOH, there are so many cases of badly mismatched sexual interests that waiting can set you up for a lifetime of misery.




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Just my opinion, but maybe because you're saving that very special first time for the person you actually love enough to be taking a lifetime vow with? Maybe I'm just overly romantic. But I'm glad my first time was with my husband. I'm glad that I was faithful to him even though our sex life was lousy. And I'm sorry that due to our split he won't be my one and only sexually for my whole lifetime unless I choose to remain alone.


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post #26 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 12:23 PM
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Re: Sex in marriage

[quote=Hellomynameis;17248425]Maybe if I'd had a few positive experiences before him I wouldn't have settled for that, but because I didn't know it could be good I never even questioned it. And I think he was glad I didn't know better because he could be selfish and get away with it.[/quote @Hellomynameis - wow, your story really struck me. I too was a virgin when I met my wife and I had never had sex with anyone else. And I didn't discuss it with others. For me it was not quality, but sex frequency that was an issue. I was led to believe that infrequent sex was normal once you marry. Whenever I asked therapists, I got this vague bullcrap answer that it is whatever the two of you can mutually agree on. Nobody would dare directly answer it. This was a colossal disservice to me. The inability of therapists to answer this question more directly, has cost me a decade of wasted effort and frustration. Sure, once a month sex is fine if you're both LD (Low Desire), but the truth is there is a right answer. Generally, happy marriages seem to be around 3X/week.

What made me come to this estimate is talking to people here and in real life. But the first time I realized something was really wrong was the day I read a scientific paper about the impact on marital sex after a sexual injury. What was interesting was once recovered from injury... These should be near normal... but the table showed very frequent sex was normal with a drop off by age. The top age group was 70+ and they had sex a few times a month. That hit me like a ton of bricks. Because the next age group is dead people. So I literally thought to myself, I have sex with my wife as often as dead people 0-1x/month.

Note: I don't believe I am a selfish or crappy lover. I read a lot, and bought a lot of toys. My goal is always to give my wife an orgasm and I am almost always successful. Sex is a great and fun experience to share with someone you love (as it was when we dated). She just doesn't want them. It makes me wonder if that makes her a selfish lover for denying me loving sex in marriage. Also, the once a month sex was not usually loving sex, but more duty sex because it became impossible to justify our marriage in her mind after a month or two of rejection.

I actually think back 11 years ago and think my first therapist failed me. She should have laid it out very clearly, either privately or in front of my wife, that we should NOT have children until we work out our sex issues. She made it seem like this is normal and suggested to my wife that she "try harder to be open to sex", which never addressed the issue and suggested duty sex. My wife didn't change and a few years later, was pregnant. Now, the solutions are far more complicated.
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post #27 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 12:55 PM
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Re: Sex in marriage

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wow, your story really struck me. I too was a virgin when I met my wife and I had never had sex with anyone else. And I didn't discuss it with others. For me it was not quality, but sex frequency that was an issue. I was led to believe that infrequent sex was normal once you marry. Whenever I asked therapists, I got this vague bullcrap answer that it is whatever the two of you can mutually agree on. Nobody would dare directly answer it. This was a colossal disservice to me. The inability of therapists to answer this question more directly, has cost me a decade of wasted effort and frustration. Sure, once a month sex is fine if you're both LD (Low Desire), but the truth is there is a right answer. Generally, happy marriages seem to be around 3X/week.

What made me come to this estimate is talking to people here and in real life. But the first time I realized something was really wrong was the day I read a scientific paper about the impact on marital sex after a sexual injury. What was interesting was once recovered from injury... These should be near normal... but the table showed very frequent sex was normal with a drop off by age. The top age group was 70+ and they had sex a few times a month. That hit me like a ton of bricks. Because the next age group is dead people. So I literally thought to myself, I have sex with my wife as often as dead people 0-1x/month.

Note: I don't believe I am a selfish or crappy lover. I read a lot, and bought a lot of toys. My goal is always to give my wife an orgasm and I am almost always successful. Sex is a great and fun experience to share with someone you love (as it was when we dated). She just doesn't want them. It makes me wonder if that makes her a selfish lover for denying me loving sex in marriage. Also, the once a month sex was not usually loving sex, but more duty sex because it became impossible to justify our marriage in her mind after a month or two of rejection.

I actually think back 11 years ago and think my first therapist failed me. She should have laid it out very clearly, either privately or in front of my wife, that we should NOT have children until we work out our sex issues. She made it seem like this is normal and suggested to my wife that she "try harder to be open to sex", which never addressed the issue and suggested duty sex. My wife didn't change and a few years later, was pregnant. Now, the solutions are far more complicated.
My husband was very HD. He wanted and at times even insisted on 1x/day. He would have been happier at 3x/day at least on weekends. Because I didn't enjoy it, it was a chore for me, but he was so verbally nasty when I turned him down that I usually gave in. I think towards the end we had settled into about once every other day up to about 5x/week. It never seemed to register with him that I didn't enjoy it or if it did he didn't care. However, I have come to believe my husband has undiagnosed ASD. Which could explain his inability to recognize, understand, and respect my feelings. Many people on the spectrum come across as selfish and unloving when in reality they are actually psychologically incapable of recognizing and responding to others' feelings unless they have had behavioral counseling to help them learn to do so. I read a book just a few months ago by an author with Aspergers Syndrome and she said sex was ALL about focusing on pleasure and orgasming, and was usually completed with total detachment from her partner and his feelings/needs.

The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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post #28 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 12:56 PM
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Re: Sex in marriage

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I can see the romantic appeal of your first time being with the person with whom you want to spend the rest of your life. OTOH, there are so many cases of badly mismatched sexual interests that waiting can set you up for a lifetime of misery.
I was told that when we were dating, 'well how do you know that you will be compatible?' Its really nonsense. You communicate, you compromise, you work at the sex life, you put the other person first. People who live together before marriage are more likely to get divorced, so that disproves that theory anyway.
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post #29 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 01:06 PM
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Re: Sex in marriage

I think that for me, the fact that a man is prepared to wait for marriage shows he has integrity, a strong character, and loves and respects me. He is saying that he wont have sex with me until he has made a 100% commitment to me in marriage. He has self control and patience and wants to get to know me before jumping into bed. It shows he is prepared to be different from most men, go against the worlds standards, and the fact that he hasn't slept around is a great attraction for me.
Apparently men who have had many partners are less likely to be faithful as well. So another plus.
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post #30 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 01:11 PM
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Re: Sex in marriage

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I was told that when we were dating, 'well how do you know that you will be compatible?' Its really nonsense. You communicate, you compromise, you work at the sex life, you put the other person first. People who live together before marriage are more likely to get divorced, so that disproves that theory anyway.
You cannot draw the conclusion of more divorces means worse. I would argue, as in my case and OP, that people who don't have other prior partners may go most of their life not knowing how pathetic their life actually is. They suffer in silence in marriages because they don't know better or are trapped by moral obligation imposed by society or religion. I would argue that the people that divorce represent those that correctly recognized a bad relationship and felt empowered to leave it to find happiness. Ironically, a low divorce rate may signify a higher percentage of unhappy relationships. My wife and I are sexually incompatible. There are people that want sex everyday and people that want sex once a month. If you think these people can be happy if they just communicate and compromise, you are smoking something. They might stay together, but will never be happy. Staying together is not a sign of success.
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