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post #16 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 05:37 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Originally Posted by bandit.45 View Post
And I just don't know if I want to entrust my old body to a state run retirement home full of castaways like myself.
This is an honest fear of mine, 40+ years down the road. I've always figured that when that day comes, I'll make my way out west, armed with only a knife, and go grizzly bear hunting. It doesn't count as "suicide" IMO. It's fighting for your life. And if you win (through some miracle, or by being the reincarnation of Hugh Glass), you get to take it home, and when your kids come to put you in the home for the dying, you can put the knife on a table, and tell them the story, and end it with "If you think you're taking me there, you can take the knife, and I'll be the grizzly."

Fortunately, from a statistical analysis, my life span is probably <25 more years. So, there's that going for me.


Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #17 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 05:39 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

OP,
I regretfully cannot offer an opinion on your ultimate destination as I do not believe there is "life" after this, at least not in the sense we think of life, having consciousness and feelings, etc., etc.. However, I do share your pragmatic view of the future. That view is understandable for someone like myself but I find it curious that a "born again christian" would have these ruminations.

I was once told by a relative that intelligence was a curse, a cross to bear if you will. I was fairly young at the time and had not yet fully experienced the gross lack of intellect that permeates this planet. Therefore when he told me this I was hesitant to accept his conclusion. Now that I have experienced this for many years, I do fully concur with his assessment. Sadly my friend you have too much intelligence to be fully happy.

You see yourself on the Titanic and are cognizant of the final outcome while most of the rest of humanity dances to the band, enjoying life as if there were no tomorrow. Meanwhile, you watch as the water slowly rises, unable to deflect your thoughts of impending doom. You even try to bail (eat right, exercise) in an effort to forestall the inevitable and these things can slow the onset but not prevent them, the ship is eventually going down.

What I have tried to do is to redirect my attention away from me and onto others. I have several grandchildren and have found some solace in trying to offer them whatever I can in the way of guidance and companionship. I never had a grandfather and find it a privilege to now be one. I still hurt every day and I still know the end of the road is rising up to meet me but I will continue to fight on for them. However, at some point when the benefits of living are few and far between I may indeed choose to move on to whatever lies beyond.

As to your question I can only offer a logical assumption by saying that if there does indeed exist a being which created all of this then it would seem counter intuitive to create that which one does not like. Therefore, it would seem prudent to expect that this being would prefer you and it spend the afterlife together and would make allowances for all but the most heinous of offenses by looking at the heart of his creation.

One last thought to consider is that life is dynamic. The way you feel today may be completely different from the way you feel tomorrow and it is that expectation or hope that many people find comforting and reason enough to embrace the future. It is my sincere wish that you find your hope.
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post #18 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 05:57 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Bandit I am a believer of once saved always saved. I did a lot of personal research on this and talked to trusted knowledgeable people and I truly believe that you can't lose your grace by committing suicide. For one thing you would be pretty desperate to actually do this when it comes down to it ant God would be there for you.

I have the same feeling as you, no way I will end up in a nursing home. I am at the end of caring for my father for the last 10 years or so. He ended up in nursing care for the last three years. Not fun.

I understand how you feel, I have been there. I have gotten pretty close to facing a natural end of life and am at that crossroads once again with my heart issues. Having been there before I realize how badly my loved ones will feel, they have been through that fear. Life is precious.

If you need someone to talk to PM me.
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post #19 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 06:07 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Bandito, I want to tell you that I understand everything you posted and your reasoning. I have thought about this subject in the exact same way, many times. It’s about evaluating the circumstances you need to be content in life and for that life to be meaningful for you. And, when/if the circumstances make fostering your needs impossible then choosing to exit this life on your terms. It is about knowing your self well (introspection) and then making a rational choice.

An additional question that I would advise you to consider before you make a decision is: “Is there anything that I can contribute to the world that makes it a better place and will I find some joy in doing it?” This is the question I pondered for a long time after my life blew up. Turns out my answer to that question was “yes” and now I am doing that “anything” regularly. I will be 60 years old in two weeks; I am content and some days very happy.

My circumstances are a bit more fortunate than what you describe. Yes I have some minor health issues that come with age but I don’t have the chronic pain that you live with. I don’t have any serious financial worries at the moment but one health crisis could change that. I have given serious thought to what my limits of tolerance for continued life may be and, have already decided that when that limit is reached I will make the choice to exit this life.

I cannot advise you on heaven but I wanted you to know that I understand and respect your thought process in this matter.
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post #20 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 06:16 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Originally Posted by bandit.45 View Post
I've been tested recently with a full psychological work up and I do not have depression. No psychosis. I am perfectly in control of my faculties. And for the most part I enjoy life....right now. But I don't see that in my future.

I'm talking twelve or fifteen years down the road philly.

I am however jaded and disillusioned with mankind and the world. I hate how people sh!t on the ones they profess to love, how people are so cruel and selfish and care only about number one. Marriages going kablooey all around me, no one valuing traditional values or mores. Sexual greed. Monetary greed..... It is overwhelming.

And I just don't know if I want to entrust my old body to a state run retirement home full of castaways like myself.
The part bolded in blue... ya know there are other people who FEEL like you do.. I dearly hope you can meet up with a woman who feels the same.. I think just finding a friend who feels similar.. where you can let your hair down with.. could do wonders for anyone.. not feeling so alone in the world.

We have an older male friend from our church.. I lost my religion some time ago -so not that I really understand what it is some feel on suicide.. but how you Feel here is how he has talked to us , opening up...his health is failing, diabetes getting worse, he sucks with women, he feels he has nothing to live for.. he does go to church...his sister is a mess, she's on & off drugs... tried to overdose a # of times.. he's been the one stable individual in her life... I feel this has given him some sense of purpose even... to be there for her...

We haven't caught up with him for some time.. since we are no longer going to church.. but still I've seen others in his life that VALUE him.. that care for him. he has downplayed it.. our kids loved him.. it would hurt so many if he did this.. just as it would hurt others if you did this..

Who do you have in your life Bandit.45 - you sound like a GOOD MAN to me.. with much to offer.. just down on yourself, a more pessimistic outlook -it happens, I understand.... I must admit.. I would hate it if my health was failing.. I also would not want to be in a nursing home..

I am in "Direct care".. it's not pretty.. sometimes I hate my Job...

I kinda like Jack Kevorkian - saying this to Christians - you can only imagine the looks I get , that's like saying you worship Satan or something...I have been told they will pray for me..

I was visiting Suicide forums a year ago... worrying about our son (devastating 1st love break up), I was on my knees again....I even bought a book on Suicide....so much more common in men, because they don't reach out.. they want to take it all "like a man".. but they hurt too... Everyone needs someone sometimes..

I am hoping you find some measure of peace here... or someone new to enter your life.. that will bring a smile to your face, that you'll want to share some of the burdens with each other... You're just not alone.. even if you don't see it right now.
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post #21 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 06:18 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Get the book 'Eternal Security' by Dr Charles Stanley, it's a good resource and explains it. By the way I lost 70% of my retirement in 2008 also and there is no time for it to recover. I am disillusioned with our country these days.
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post #22 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 06:54 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

You wanted opinions; here's one:

nobody decides who gets into heaven, except the Lord Jesus.

If you are right with him, you'll be there.
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post #23 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Originally Posted by Kivlor View Post
This is an honest fear of mine, 40+ years down the road. I've always figured that when that day comes, I'll make my way out west, armed with only a knife, and go grizzly bear hunting. It doesn't count as "suicide" IMO. It's fighting for your life. And if you win (through some miracle, or by being the reincarnation of Hugh Glass), you get to take it home, and when your kids come to put you in the home for the dying, you can put the knife on a table, and tell them the story, and end it with "If you think you're taking me there, you can take the knife, and I'll be the grizzly."

Fortunately, from a statistical analysis, my life span is probably <25 more years. So, there's that going for me.
I like this. But my fear is I won't be healthy enough to work much past 75. That would be my ceiling of usefulness. I'm almost tempted to forgo trying to save up any more retirement and just use that money to travel and enjoy the last two decades of my life and then leave this world with dignity.
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post #24 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:21 PM
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Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Are you in your late 40s?

I was also going to suggest getting your testosterone levels checked. I got mine done last week.

Are you lifting weights? That is a must. Read the book "Younger Next Year"

Eggs are good. The old myths were debunked.

Let's get you fixed. Heaven can wait.
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post #25 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Originally Posted by rich84 View Post
Bandit. Find another doctor. Try the antidepressants. People with far worse predicaments find joy in life. It's a matter of attitude and brain chemistry. You sound as if you find joy in nothing. And that is what depression is. Find another doctor.

I'm an atheist. But faith is just belief in spite of uncertainty. None of us can be sure of our fate after our last breath. If you believe that there is an eternal hell, and that suicide could potentially land you there, why risk it?

Oh, and find another doctor. Try the antidepressants.

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Again I'm not depressed. I just went through a battery of psychological exams six months ago and I'm not depressed or "suicidal" in the strict meaning of the term. My blood work came back clean also. I am not sitting here moping around or feeling sorry for myself. I am simply looking down the road two decades, objectively, and I don't see where it is going to work it for me. I do appreciate your concern and good advice, but I am disillusioned and disenchanted, not depressed. There is a vast difference.

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post #26 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Originally Posted by jorgegene View Post
You wanted opinions; here's one:

nobody decides who gets into heaven, except the Lord Jesus.

If you are right with him, you'll be there.
I think you are correct.
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post #27 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Originally Posted by giddiot View Post
Get the book 'Eternal Security' by Dr Charles Stanley, it's a good resource and explains it. By the way I lost 70% of my retirement in 2008 also and there is no time for it to recover. I am disillusioned with our country these days.
Oh I will. I love Stanley. He's about the closest thing to a prophet we have these days. If he says it, you can pretty much take it to the bank.
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post #28 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous View Post
The part bolded in blue... ya know there are other people who FEEL like you do.. I dearly hope you can meet up with a woman who feels the same.. I think just finding a friend who feels similar.. where you can let your hair down with.. could do wonders for anyone.. not feeling so alone in the world.

We have an older male friend from our church.. I lost my religion some time ago -so not that I really understand what it is some feel on suicide.. but how you Feel here is how he has talked to us , opening up...his health is failing, diabetes getting worse, he sucks with women, he feels he has nothing to live for.. he does go to church...his sister is a mess, she's on & off drugs... tried to overdose a # of times.. he's been the one stable individual in her life... I feel this has given him some sense of purpose even... to be there for her...

We haven't caught up with him for some time.. since we are no longer going to church.. but still I've seen others in his life that VALUE him.. that care for him. he has downplayed it.. our kids loved him.. it would hurt so many if he did this.. just as it would hurt others if you did this..

Who do you have in your life Bandit.45 - you sound like a GOOD MAN to me.. with much to offer.. just down on yourself, a more pessimistic outlook -it happens, I understand.... I must admit.. I would hate it if my health was failing.. I also would not want to be in a nursing home..

I am in "Direct care".. it's not pretty.. sometimes I hate my Job...

I kinda like Jack Kevorkian - saying this to Christians - you can only imagine the looks I get , that's like saying you worship Satan or something...I have been told they will pray for me..

I was visiting Suicide forums a year ago... worrying about our son (devastating 1st love break up), I was on my knees again....I even bought a book on Suicide....so much more common in men, because they don't reach out.. they want to take it all "like a man".. but they hurt too... Everyone needs someone sometimes..

I am hoping you find some measure of peace here... or someone new to enter your life.. that will bring a smile to your face, that you'll want to share some of the burdens with each other... You're just not alone.. even if you don't see it right now.
Thank you for this. I'm going to mull over what you have said. Thank you.
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post #29 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:32 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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I like this. But my fear is I won't be healthy enough to work much past 75. That would be my ceiling of usefulness. I'm almost tempted to forgo trying to save up any more retirement and just use that money to travel and enjoy the last two decades of my life and then leave this world with dignity.
I am not a theologian to tell you about heaven. But I can't imagine that God is a rules lawyer who would ban a good-hearted person on a technicality.

So you're talking twenty years away? I guess it's a comforting plan for the future, one that's better than dreading worsening health in a bad nursing home.

A lot can happen in twenty years, though, to the point where it's not worth worrying about. Put half your money towards retirement and half towards more immediate things, and cover both.

But don't see only the negative in the world around you. Stay open to the positive and it won't be so drowned out. Maybe that takes medication, maybe it takes meditation.

And for every good man who thinks romance and trustworthiness is dead, there's a good woman thinking the exact same thing. Find new activities, make new friends, be open to possibilities.
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post #30 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Red Sonja thanks for your input. I'm glad there are some who feel similar to myself.
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