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post #76 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 06:23 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?
I don't know. But why risk taking the chance that it might?


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post #77 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 06:56 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

I once met a woman suffering from severe depression.

she asked me to come close to her and cuddle. We really didn't say much, but after a while she said; "it hurts doesn't it?" I realy didn't feel what she did at the time, but I just nodded and said "yes".

Many years after that, I myself fell into a deep depression. There was nothing to live for at that time. I could see nothing in the future that might stop the pain. Then, I remembered that moment with the lady. Then i understood exactly what she meant. Yes, it hurt. It hurt real bad.

It hurt so bad,I didn't want to live.

here's the thing: I had no idea the joys that were ahead of me. I couldn't see it then.
but they were there.
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post #78 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 07:06 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Excellent point. Thinking too much about depression can actually make you depressed. When you start to negatively spiral, think about something positive.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-in-depression
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post #79 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 07:13 PM
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Cool Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Excellent point. Thinking too much about depression can actually make you depressed. When you start to negatively spiral, think about something positive.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-in-depression
In the rare moments whenever I might find myself depressed, just the mere thought of either of my two wonderful sons places air currents firmly beneath my wings!
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post #80 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 07:42 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Hang in there Bandit. None of us really has an answer. Most of us suffer from depression at some time or another. Some of us suffer from debilitating depression at some point in our lives. Try everything you can. Do one thing at a time and see if it helps.

I don't think any of us know what life is going to have in store. I hope you give life a chance. Oh, and I know you have no immediate plans. I just know you aren't really sure what is out there. Did you ever really know? That's something to ponder.



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio. your philosophy ] i.e., philosophy (or learning) in general. The emphasis here should be on "dreamt of", as Hamlet is pointing out how little even the most educated people can explain."



I also consider the above when pondering on religion and god. I can't know. Notice the word, "can't". All I can do is best guess. Or as I sometimes post, guesstimate, which means I have a little knowledge and the rest is conjecture. The result being a guesstimate.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
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post #81 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 12:31 AM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Yeah but there is no movement or ideal that I would want to die for. I have to have something worth believing in before I would want to die for it.
Seen your post about the neighborhood and this above: Maybe a geographical and social change of location is a good idea?

If you would live in a small community with an active church, they have always not enough hands for all the work to be done.
If you find new activities and new surroundings they will have a rejuvenating influence on your brain cells. It could be important to use the idea that what you look to is what you will be. Now you look at that neighborhood and that circle of AA, which sounds depressing to me. Get to look at positive things and you will get positive. Working towards goals in a group, being one with nature, having fun, I would go that direction.

God Creates out of Nothing. Wonderful you say. Yes, to be sure, but He does what is still more Wonderful: He makes Saints out of Sinners.

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post #82 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 05:21 AM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Praying for you Bandit. I had no idea how bad you were hurting.
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post #83 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 07:24 AM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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I'm a devout atheist, but IF God exists, I don't think merely signing on for a "holy" quest absolves you of improper intent or motivation, given common theological views of suicide.
While I was certainly being macabre tongue in cheek, the concept most people have of how to "get in" to heaven is ridiculous. What is being noble in the eyes of God? Being devout? Why are people devout? To get into Heaven. Most people, if they were shown evidence that God exists but there is NO afterlife, would drop the devoutedness like a bad habit. Wait, God is just there and really, nothing changes for me? Oh, um, well, guess I'll go watch football on Sunday.

Under the presumption that there were, in fact, some people who made it into heaven, the VAST majority of them did it in order to get into heaven. Most likely claimed to do things in the eyes of the lord or were very fallible people outside their "quest". Either way, if you believe in Heaven, doing a "holy" quest, regardless of motivation (which is to get into Heaven which is pretty much the most noble of motivations anyway.
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post #84 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 07:36 AM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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While I was certainly being macabre tongue in cheek, the concept most people have of how to "get in" to heaven is ridiculous. What is being noble in the eyes of God? Being devout? Why are people devout? To get into Heaven. Most people, if they were shown evidence that God exists but there is NO afterlife, would drop the devoutedness like a bad habit. Wait, God is just there and really, nothing changes for me? Oh, um, well, guess I'll go watch football on Sunday.

Under the presumption that there were, in fact, some people who made it into heaven, the VAST majority of them did it in order to get into heaven. Most likely claimed to do things in the eyes of the lord or were very fallible people outside their "quest". Either way, if you believe in Heaven, doing a "holy" quest, regardless of motivation (which is to get into Heaven which is pretty much the most noble of motivations anyway.
So, you're saying that doing "good" things - even with sinful intent - is all that matters to God?

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CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #85 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 07:50 AM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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So, you're saying that doing "good" things - even with sinful intent - is all that matters to God?
Give me an example of doing good deeds with malintent. Like, killing Hitler but doing it because you just wanted to kill someone?

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post #86 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 08:31 AM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Give me an example of doing good deeds with malintent. Like, killing Hitler but doing it because you just wanted to kill someone?
Volunteering to fight ISIS but taking excess risks in hopes of being killed. Good deed, sinful intent (suicide).

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #87 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 09:11 AM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Volunteering to fight ISIS but taking excess risks in hopes of being killed. Good deed, sinful intent (suicide).
I guess this is more perspective as if ISIS has been right about everything, then fighting them won't get you into heaven. This also assumes that God says that suicide is bad (which I guess is the whole intent of this thread, the presumption that taking your own life means you are blacklisted). However, if you are just jumping in front of a bullet without trying to do the "holy" deed, then why even go through the effort of the charade when really the end result is the same. You would need to commit yourself to trying to do the work despite the odds. They seem to have the perfect knack of killing yourself and becoming a martyr, you would need to just take a page out of their handbook.
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post #88 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 11:09 AM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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While I was certainly being macabre tongue in cheek, the concept most people have of how to "get in" to heaven is ridiculous. What is being noble in the eyes of God? Being devout? Why are people devout? To get into Heaven. Most people, if they were shown evidence that God exists but there is NO afterlife, would drop the devoutedness like a bad habit. Wait, God is just there and really, nothing changes for me? Oh, um, well, guess I'll go watch football on Sunday.

Under the presumption that there were, in fact, some people who made it into heaven, the VAST majority of them did it in order to get into heaven. Most likely claimed to do things in the eyes of the lord or were very fallible people outside their "quest". Either way, if you believe in Heaven, doing a "holy" quest, regardless of motivation (which is to get into Heaven which is pretty much the most noble of motivations anyway.
There are a lot of vids on youtube, discussions between anti-theists and Christians, that deal with these issues. Or start a thread on the subject. You will be surprised .

God Creates out of Nothing. Wonderful you say. Yes, to be sure, but He does what is still more Wonderful: He makes Saints out of Sinners.

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post #89 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 12:41 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

I'm not religious/devout any longer, but I do have a kind of faith (moral compass).

I hope you find the answers you're seeking in some of the very uplifting and introspective posts. My hope is that whatever you decide, you do it with a glad, ready heart.

Definitely take time to really live before you go pondering too deeply about death. There are experiences out there that remind you of what a vast world we live in and why it's worth living in. Usually it takes a detour along a skinny branch to get there, not something along our usual, repetitive paths of life.

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

~ Abraham Maslow
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post #90 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 03:09 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

There aint no Heaven and there aint no Hell

If ya think there is I got a bridge to sell.
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