Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven? - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

I have been contemplating suicide for a year or so now. It's not something I want to do now, but I could see doing it when I'm about 60. I look at my future and it's a bleak outlook. I have been burned too many times in relationships so I do not see myself marrying or sharing a life with anyone again. I am done with women and dating....just done with it. But there are also other considerations that have been leading me towards this.

I lost my retirement when the market crashed in 2008. I have tried to build it back up but I just don't have the extra money. I pay for all my own medical insurance and I just cannot seem to get my retirement nest egg growing at the rate it needs to be. Day to day expenses for a single guy are high nowadays. I just don't see myself having any decent standard of living if I ever retire, which seems like less and less of a possibility.

I try to stay healthy and I excercise every day, but I am pretty sure I have onset arthritis. I am in pain every day with my feet and back. I wear orthotics but they don't help much. I have herniated disks, bad knees....I'm a mess skeleton wise. I am doing stretching every day, which helps a lot, but I cannot seem to get to where I feel any better. I've tried multivitamins, holistic foods, antioxidants...nothing seems to help. I see myself being pretty much stoved up completely by the time I'm 60.

My penis hasn't made an appearance in years. I see beautiful women everywhere and...nothing.

I've been examined for depression and the psychologist tells me I'm fine. I don't feel depressed...but I just don't have any high hopes for any kind of happy future or retirement. I see pain and loneliness in my future.

The only social activity I engage in is with my AA group, and hanging out with confused male alcoholics is not the most fulfilling way to spend evenings. They are good men, but my God they are messed up.

So I have been thinking about setting a term of limitation on my life. I don't really want to get old and have to have people take care of me. I have visited rest homes and...no way. Just no. I'm not spending my declining years wearing depends and eating lime jello.

I have been on a slew of Christian sites. Most say that suicide for born-again Christians like myself does not end up as a one way ticket to hell, but they do say it is a huge sin. I wonder what others here think. I know what the Catholics here will say, but I'd like perspectives from other mainstream Christains, Mormons and other religions.

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post #2 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 02:14 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Originally Posted by bandit.45 View Post
I have been contemplating suicide for a year or so now. It's not something I want to do now, but I could see doing it when I'm about 60. I look at my future and it's a bleak outlook. I have been burned too many times in relationships so I do not see myself marrying or sharing a life with anyone again. I am done with women and dating....just done with it. But there are also other considerations that have been leading me towards this.

I lost my retirement when the market crashed in 2008. I have tried to build it back up but I just don't have the extra money. I pay for all my own medical insurance and I just cannot seem to get my retirement nest egg growing at the rate it needs to be. Day to day expenses for a single guy are high nowadays. I just don't see myself having any decent standard of living if I ever retire, which seems like less and less of a possibility.

I try to stay healthy and I excercise every day, but I am pretty sure I have onset arthritis. I am in pain every day with my feet and back. I wear orthotics but they don't help much. I have herniated disks, bad knees....I'm a mess skeleton wise. I am doing stretching every day, which helps a lot, but I cannot seem to get to where I feel any better. I've tried multivitamins, holistic foods, antioxidants...nothing seems to help. I see myself being pretty much stoved up completely by the time I'm 60.

My penis hasn't made an appearance in years. I see beautiful women everywhere and...nothing.

I've been examined for depression and the psychologist tells me I'm fine. I don't feel depressed...but I just don't have any high hopes for any kind of happy future or retirement. I see pain and loneliness in my future.

The only social activity I engage in is with my AA group, and hanging out with confused male alcoholics is not the most fulfilling way to spend evenings. They are good men, but my God they are messed up.

So I have been thinking about setting a term of limitation on my life. I don't really want to get old and have to have people take care of me. I have visited rest homes and...no way. Just no. I'm not spending my declining years wearing depends and eating lime jello.

I have been on a slew of Christian sites. Most say that suicide for born-again Christians like myself does not end up as a one way ticket to hell, but they do say it is a huge sin. I wonder what others here think. I know what the Catholics here will say, but I'd like perspectives from other mainstream Christains, Mormons and other religions.
I'm sure you are going to heaven, bandit. Dug says everybody goes to heaven.

But gosh, I would like to see you enjoy your life in the meantime.

What is your diet like?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #3 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 02:28 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

I'm sorry you feel your prospects are so bleak, @bandit.45. If you had a good relationship with a woman, do you believe you would feel differently?

I empathize with your bleak outlook considering you believe you will not have enough $ to retire much less pay your health bills, while your body is showing signs of aging, and it will only get worse.

I hope you do not commit suicide. You are a valuable person to mankind, and to God. You make me laugh here, I appreciate your clear headed posts. I'm sure many, many other people feel the same way about you.

Regarding whether a person will go to heaven if they commit suicide. I don't know. God knows our emotional pain, and I believe he understands that it can become too much for some. Lately, however, I've realized I haven't fully understood the role Jesus played when he came, died and resurrected. He knew what was coming. As a man, he cried and begged God to let the cup (of a torturous death) pass from him. He could have committed suicide that night, and save himself a lot of pain, but he didn't.

He knows how we feel, he felt it and worse.

God bought you with a price: God gave his own life for all your transgressions (when he took the form of man, "Jesus") That is how much God loves you! 1 Corinthians 6:20

I don't know if killing oneself constitutes murder, but even murder doesn't condemn one to hell, if one is repentant, in great pain and has accepted God's sacrifice for our own sins.

Can you find a church of like minded people, and develop some deeper relationships there? Serve somehow? Serving others, by giving your time, labor, prayers, consideration, is a good way to get the mind off one's own problems.

I know I didn't give you the "Yes" or "No" answer you were hoping for, but I hope I gave you some food for thought. I will keep you in my prayers.
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post #4 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 02:40 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

You sound depressed. Much of your posts has all of the earmarks of depression. Have you seen anyone professionally about this situation? As to your question? I won't answer it because some would not like my answer and you are in a fragile state of mind. Before you do anything go see if you are depressed. Depression isn't like the flu, it suddenly shows up and you get over it. There are people who do not realize they are depressed for decades, until they sit down with someone who can see all of the signs and assess them correctly.

Good luck Bandit. Please, don't make any rash or hurried decisions.
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post #5 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 02:44 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Christians, especially those mean spirited types that I've also encountered, have no right to judge anyone's eternal destiny. No one does. My concern for you is that you see your life as bleak, based on worldly reasons. It's so very easy to get caught up in the world, bandit. The world tells us that we are nothing if we don't have a certain type of partner, or job, or whatever. It's easy to get caught up in all that. I'll be praying for you to have a change of heart, and know that God loves you, and that there is a lot to life that awaits you. Also, you might want to explore some Buddhist ideas, as they can be helpful also to seeing life from a different perspective and finding peace within. If you are into prayer, great...if not, meditation - just sitting and emptying your mind from all the noise, for 15 minutes a day - can really do wonders.
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post #6 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 02:50 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

@bandit.45

Personal opinion on this, not official dogma... People aren't "barred" from heaven. Heaven is eternally being in the grace and glory of your Creator. IMO hell is not demons, pitchforks, lakes of lava, hellfire, etc, it is eternal darkness. These are states of existence, not "rewards" and "punishments". From that idea of "hell"... by committing suicide, someone rejects the one gift their Creator gave them, their minds clouded by the darkness that led to such a complete rejection, how could we find our way to his Light? Those who are in such a mindset, I feel, are ill-equipped to find their way to their Creator in the afterlife.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #7 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 02:50 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

philly is right, @bandit.45. I was feeling very depressed a month ago, and got on antidepression meds. Although the real life situations that were depressing me have not changed, at least I am not feeling like I can't take another day of it.

It didn't take but a couple of days for the AD meds to kick in and for the depression to lift. Go see your Dr. and ask for AD meds. That is a good first step to improving your outlook, even if nothing else changes.
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post #8 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 02:51 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

I think suicide is the result severely damaged brain chemistry due to untreated or undertreated depression. I don't see how any clinician could see a person suffering from suicidal ideations and not say they are depressed. Depression is an illness, and I don't see how a loving God could send a sick person to hell for succumbing to their illness.

Is your group a men's only group? I'm all for men with men and women with women the first year. We have all seen what a disaster that can lead too!! But, I have also seen some pretty happy relationships when both parties have over a year before they start dating. I think you have an amazing handle on your physical sobriety, but what about your emotional sobriety? Unity, recovery, and service are the 3 parts of the triangle. It sounds like you are kicking azz in the recovery and service part. But what does the unity part mean to you? To me, it means am I having fun with my recovery? Am I hanging out with my recovery peeps and having fun? Helping newcomers is awesome, but you're right they are a mess and it can be draining. My question is, who's helping you? Who fills your cup up and makes you laugh?
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post #9 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 02:52 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Damn.

I'm a pretty lousy theologian, but from what I understand there are only two unforgiveable sins. One is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I've heard some guys talk about it, but I still can't wrap my head around what it means. The other as I recall to be taking the mark of the beast in the End Times. God is ready to forgive anything else if you're His child. I think He'll wrap you in His arms and take your pain away.

I wish you'd let Him do that now, and skip the eating a bullet part. I'm sorry as hell that things look so bleak, but you have a lot of offer the world, women or no women. Life can be a bastard, but never let the bastards win.
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post #10 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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I'm sure you are going to heaven, bandit. Dug says everybody goes to heaven.

But gosh, I would like to see you enjoy your life in the meantime.

What is your diet like?
Pretty wholesome. No fast foods. Limited red meat, and then mostly wild game. I eat lots of oily fish and organic chicken. Loads of vegetables, fruit, legumes and I always start the day with oatmeal. I have been tested for gluten intolerance and do not have it, nor do I have any food allergies. I consume acedophilus enriched yogurt for my digestion. I also drink lots of green tea, Yerba mate kombucha. So I'm getting all the healthy microbes. No sugar. And I try to lay off the carbs as much as possible.

I probably eat too many eggs and potatoes, but I'm not giving those up.

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post #11 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Originally Posted by phillybeffandswiss View Post
You sound depressed. Much of your posts has all of the earmarks of depression. Have you seen anyone professionally about this situation? As to your question? I won't answer it because some would not like my answer and you are in a fragile state of mind. Before you do anything go see if you are depressed. Depression isn't like the flu, it suddenly shows up and you get over it. There are people who do not realize they are depressed for decades, until they sit down with someone who can see all of the signs and assess them correctly.

Good luck Bandit. Please, don't make any rash or hurried decisions.
I've been tested recently with a full psychological work up and I do not have depression. No psychosis. I am perfectly in control of my faculties. And for the most part I enjoy life....right now. But I don't see that in my future.

I'm talking twelve or fifteen years down the road philly.

I am however jaded and disillusioned with mankind and the world. I hate how people sh!t on the ones they profess to love, how people are so cruel and selfish and care only about number one. Marriages going kablooey all around me, no one valuing traditional values or mores. Sexual greed. Monetary greed..... It is overwhelming.

And I just don't know if I want to entrust my old body to a state run retirement home full of castaways like myself.
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post #12 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Originally Posted by Ms. GP View Post
I think suicide is the result severely damaged brain chemistry due to untreated or undertreated depression. I don't see how any clinician could see a person suffering from suicidal ideations and not say they are depressed. Depression is an illness, and I don't see how a loving God could send a sick person to hell for succumbing to their illness.

Is your group a men's only group? I'm all for men with men and women with women the first year. We have all seen what a disaster that can lead too!! But, I have also seen some pretty happy relationships when both parties have over a year before they start dating. I think you have an amazing handle on your physical sobriety, but what about your emotional sobriety? Unity, recovery, and service are the 3 parts of the triangle. It sounds like you are kicking azz in the recovery and service part. But what does the unity part mean to you? To me, it means am I having fun with my recovery? Am I hanging out with my recovery peeps and having fun? Helping newcomers is awesome, but you're right they are a mess and it can be draining. My question is, who's helping you? Who fills your cup up and makes you laugh?
The unity part is definitely where I am lacking and I am trying to extend myself out there. You raise a solid point. Thank you.
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post #13 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 03:53 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Find a low t center. I'm betting it'll change your life. Even if your regular dr says your levels are "normal" for a guy your age. Find a specialist and I'd wager you'll be feeling great in a few short months.

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post #14 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

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Find a low t center. I'm betting it'll change your life. Even if your regular dr says your levels are "normal" for a guy your age. Find a specialist and I'd wager you'll be feeling great in a few short months.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
I may try that. Thanks.
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post #15 of 153 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 04:19 PM
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Re: Will Suicide Bar Me From Heaven?

Bandit. Find another doctor. Try the antidepressants. People with far worse predicaments find joy in life. It's a matter of attitude and brain chemistry. You sound as if you find joy in nothing. And that is what depression is. Find another doctor.

I'm an atheist. But faith is just belief in spite of uncertainty. None of us can be sure of our fate after our last breath. If you believe that there is an eternal hell, and that suicide could potentially land you there, why risk it?

Oh, and find another doctor. Try the antidepressants.






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