can you stop avoiding the question and tell me how its TWISTED?
You need to read your bible, I'm not hear to preach to you or influence anyone on what they should believe or worship.
You might try the back of proverbs to start, instructions to church leaders as I posted on this thread long time ago.
you can also look up false teachers and do a self study as well as homosexulaity in Gods eyes.
It would be a wonderful way for you to learn first hand to have a deeper understanding not only of who God is but how to create the relationship of RESPECT he wants from you, In other words, to RESPECT the word.
WOW, I stumbled across this by accident and it is really amazing how we as Christians loose sight of what the Bible actually says. We want to make everyone happy and not offend anyone. That would not be POLITICALLY CORRECT now would it.
God created us all as sinners and that is why he sent his son Jesus Christ to shed his blood for our sins so that we could be forgiven if we ask for HIS forgiveness. God does not hate the person but he does hate the sin. It is the sin that is the problem not the person.
You have to be careful and not take the Bible out of context and read into it to make you feel all warm and fuzzy about actions that should not be done.
If everyone converted over to a gay lifestyle, how would the Earth repopulate itself? I know, we can just clone everyone and play god. Now there is a Liberal idea.
Two things struck me funny about the Lesbian Pastor. One thing has yet to be mentioned unless I missed it.
The first thing is Homosexuality is a sinful behavior. And in my opinion as I interpret the Bible, It is a Behavior (Sin) and not a genetic problem.
Romans 1:26,27 says:
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
1 Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)
9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).
The other problem that I see with the Lesbian Pastor is that a women should not be a Pastor. I know this is going to be controversial but it is what it is.
The Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11-12). In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world (2 Timothy 2:13-14). God, through the apostle Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors, which definitely includes preaching to, teaching, and having spiritual authority over men.
There are many “objections” to this view of women in ministry. A common one is that Paul restricts women from teaching because in the first century, women were typically uneducated. However, 1 Timothy 2:11-14 nowhere mentions educational status. If education were a qualification for ministry, the majority of Jesus' disciples would not have been qualified. A second common objection is that Paul only restricted the women of Ephesus from teaching (1 Timothy was written to Timothy, who was the pastor of the church in Ephesus). The city of Ephesus was known for its temple to Artemis, a false Greek/Roman goddess. Women were the authority in the worship of Artemis. However, the book of 1 Timothy nowhere mentions Artemis, nor does Paul mention Artemis worship as a reason for the restrictions in 1 Timothy 2:11-12.
A third common objection is that Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general. The Greek words in the passage could refer to husbands and wives; however, the basic meaning of the words refers to men and women. Further, the same Greek words are used in verses 8-10. Are only husbands to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing (verse 8)? Are only wives to dress modestly, have good deeds, and worship God (verses 9-10)? Of course not. Verses 8-10 clearly refer to all men and women, not only husbands and wives. There is nothing in the context that would indicate a switch to husbands and wives in verses 11-14.
Yet another frequent objection to this interpretation of women in ministry is in relation to women who held positions of leadership in the Bible, specifically Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah in the Old Testament. This objection fails to note some significant factors. First, Deborah was the only female judge among 13 male judges. Huldah was the only female prophet among dozens of male prophets mentioned in the Bible. Miriam's only connection to leadership was being the sister of Moses and Aaron. The two most prominent women in the times of the Kings were Athaliah and Jezebel—hardly examples of godly female leadership. Most significantly, though, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue. The book of 1 Timothy and the other Pastoral Epistles present a new paradigm for the church—the body of Christ—and that paradigm involves the authority structure for the church, not for the nation of Israel or any other Old Testament entity.
Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ. Priscilla's name is mentioned first, perhaps indicating that she was more “prominent” in ministry than her husband. However, Priscilla is nowhere described as participating in a ministry activity that is in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11-14. Priscilla and Aquila brought Apollos into their home and they both discipled him, explaining the Word of God to him more accurately (Acts 18:26).
In Romans 16:1, even if Phoebe is considered a “deaconess” instead of a “servant,” that does not indicate that Phoebe was a teacher in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not deacons (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). Elders/bishops/deacons are described as the “husband of one wife,” “a man whose children believe,” and “men worthy of respect.” Clearly the indication is that these qualifications refer to men. In addition, in 1 Timothy 3:1-13 and Titus 1:6-9, masculine pronouns are used exclusively to refer to elders/bishops/deacons.
The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 makes the “reason” perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for” and gives the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11-12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived.” God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. This order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22-33) and the church. The fact that Eve was deceived is also given as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men. This leads some to believe that women should not teach because they are more easily deceived. That concept is debatable, but if women are more easily deceived, why should they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? That is not what the text says. Women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. As a result, God has given men the primary teaching authority in the church.
Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, and helps. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).
God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers, or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching men or having spiritual authority over them. This logically would preclude women from serving as pastors/preachers. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s plan and His gifting of them.
This is what I have found on the subject and I tend to believe the Bible and I don't think we should add to or take away from it. I know it is hard to admit when you are wrong but the Homosexual lifestyle is wrong for a God fearing Christian. I guess in the next 10/20 yrs. the public will start condoning incest and such other provertions.
I agree with the above statements.
Even if Beninyourshoes is using the New World Translation and not the King James Version.I will quote it verbatim from the KJV.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
One must have faith.I trust in God to preserve his word.
Whats that?You say that man could manipulate it....True but do you think God the creator of EVERYTHING would not have the power to preserve his word?
Now with the above said,I do not Hate or judge Gay people.
If they wanna go to church,well then,they can go right to it.
I will however NOT be preached at by or taught by a Homosexual person.Its a conflict of interest.
I feel that women in the church should not preach,there is Biblical "proof" as Beninyourshoes stated above.
I do not have a problem with women teaching Bible school class though (kids),and neither do most churches.There is a structure that the Bible teaches in proper operation and selection of leaders.
Want proof,look up the selected scriptures that Beninyourshoes has provided above.
Want a little more?
There were 12 apostles,correct?All 12 were what? MEN
If there would have been more and it was deemed acceptable by God,Mary Magdalene would have undoubtedly been it.She had more faith then most of the apostles.However she was a woman and as such exempt from apostle hood.
1st Timothy 2:11-15
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Also something else.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
I walk through life trying not to cast stones.I try to not cast them on forums either.
People get offended by the truth.The truth hurts sometimes but it would weigh on the conscience of those that do know it if they did not share.
If you do not agree.Cool Deal.I will not shovel it down your throat.Just do not ask me to feign acceptance to something I do not believe in.That's the beauty of this world,we can agree to disagree.One day it will all come out,and if by some slim chance the atheists are right,then it does not matter.
O yeah there is a verse or two for that to.
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
PS-I know I have talked about issues on these forums that are really personal.In fact some may be tempted to use this as ammo against anything I say.All I will say is this.I am only Human.I sin daily.Its between me and God,what those happen to be.Those sins that I sin are no greater or any lesser then anyone else's sins.
To put this in perspective which is greater,the theft of a penny or the theft of one million dollars?Think about it.
Tweak, good points. I use e-bible for information, it has all the versions of the Bible and cross references each version. Some versions are in more lamins (sp?) terms so you can understand easier.
I feel as you do, Women are aloud to teach, just not Men.
Too often when you use the Bible as a guideline for how we live our lives. People tend to use the "you should not judge" card. It's not judging, it just telling you or informing you what we should be doing in our daily lives as per the Bible guides us. I too sin everyday and have skeletons in my closet, but I feel convicted and ask God to forgive me, lead, guide and direct me in my daily activities.
Yes one day it will all come out in the end. I hope for the sake of some of those reading that they didn't get it wrong for their own personal gain. I have in the past tried the "what does it matter if I sin, God will forgive me" card, but I feel like the Holy Spirit convicts my heart and tells me the I am doing wrong. I believe that if you are a born again Christian and have TRULY excepted Jesus into your heart, you will feel the conviction. The conviction of the Holy Spirit is what gives me such great FAITH. Why do we feel something when we are doing wrong. If there is no wrong, why are most of the people on this forum? Most of us are on here because we have been wronged by someone else.
I have been using Sword Searcher 4 for all my reference for the Bible.
The search function alone is awesome,as it has like 7 different versions of the Bible,even the original hebrew/greek....I think.
I am the type pf person who will lay all the cards out on the table.
I will not force or shove,unless I am forced or shoved.
I know,I know turn the other cheek.Its the hardest thing for me to do though.
I do not consider myself a Christian or any other specific religion, but I have a lot of faith. The God I have seen revealed is so kind and loving that I know this God embraces all of us, every last one of us. This God would not deny someone love based on something as harmless as their sexual orientation.
I also believe that Hell is what we create in our own lives by mistreating one another; anyone want to discuss that? ;0
I share your beliefs. I really don't think it's for me to decide what someone else chooses to do unless, of course, they're gonna' go shoot someone or something like that. I don't know the dynamics of that person's life. It's not my business.
I've often stated I think we are actually living in hell. Strange that someone shares my opinion. lol
The basic rule I choose to live by is "Do unto others.....". Kindness, consideration and respect for others goes a LOOOONG way.
People that appear to be so knowledgeable yet have a desire to be what the author of their faith never was.
Judgment is about character
Decisions are about things
Go join one of the so called straight churches ... they're so many to choose from and its much more entertaining to see them come out of the closet or cry on TV about the teenager girls and alter boys...
I've been invited to a new church that has a lesbian pastor.
It somehow goes against what I believe, in that you cannot be gay and live the lifestyle of a gay person and be a christian, so I can't go to that church.
what are your feelings about gays in the church ministiry? It seems to me they are making up their own religion to think its ok to live as a homosexual or lesbian and teach Gods word.. when the bible strictly prohibits it.
what you may someday realize is that all of religion and the rules surrounding it is "made up".
This happens all the time. It is the church's attempt to mold the religion to better fit changing society and to keep money flowing into the donation baskets. Posted via Mobile Device
i wish i had the patience/dedication to quote the bible here
as extensively as u (& tweak) do. (time also)
unfortunately like the wiped out souls of sodom-gommorah,
many who come to argue w/ u, are lost (4time being?) and
dont have a clue to yer bible ref's as they've never
read them. and 4 those who have & argue against spelled out
black/white sins listed, shame shame on u! i think i read
someone say, "i no longer believe that stuff"[paraphrased]ex-christians one n all.
for the seculars i'll attack this as simply as i can (w/ spirits help of course). pretend i come to do an inservice at your work
or former workplace. lets say ur all a bunch of well educated
engineers. i come and start instructing you all on new & im=-
proved techniques to build that upcoming bridge, and that up-
coming superhighway etc. now i dont know a thing about
what it is i am saying. no experience. just some quicky
research books on subject.........
you see where i'm going right? if u go along w/all i say just
because u assume i know what i'm talking about, cuz mgmt
put me up on this stage, then theres gonna be hell to pay.
faulty bridges, rds etc will cost $$$, lives, and peoples peace
of mind u know what u r doing, no? thjere'll be a bounty on
my head or i'll be put away, locked up.
too many people get up on stage trying to teach wind up
destroying instead. this goes for both pro & con bible
folk here n everywhere.
get educated 1st, pls. i cant say anything against muslim or
hindus if i dont know diddly, now can i? unless i wish to
appear to be stupid/ignorant that is.
wow, i take a vacation for awhile and spirituality blossoms (finally) w/ some action.
TO rateyes (lol...lmao...moniker says it all?) and others who side w/ him/her:
dont ask people to prove anything to ya, esp concerning bible passages re: homos and the like, as u dont bother reading them nor praying/meditating about them or better still not HUMBLY ASKING God to teach u via the Holy Spirit what the heck does any of it mean esp concerning u and YOUR life.
u read like a troubled spirit who doesnt have a pot to piss in, or worse yet, no real lasting love in yer life.
u know yer all wrong, and why it is so. but still u contend to argue yer pt as if any true christian is gonna be swayed by yer foolish opinion? Jesus spoke of u and psuedo christians
(some of which have wishy washy posts here) comparing u and the times to those of Noahs flood long ago.
there are some tenets or issues that are unclear in the bible w/out alot of study and prayer, i'll give u that. but homosexuality wasnt one of them. Old test/New test, pretty much the same. only diff was violent punishments in OT, and some prayer/understanding/admonitions in the NT, as both Jesus and Paul demonstrated w/ their teachings.
No christian is saying homos arent welcome (to repent) in their churches. if they do say so, they are not christians.
but by same token, homos looking to continue their lifestyle and call it christianity in an estabilished church or their own, are only seeking controversy or fooling themselves.
futhermore, if u erroneously think that u r entitled to delete or multiply any of the ten commandments which Jesus skimmed down to two for simple minds like all of us, then its no wonder u (like our wishy washy false christians) stand for nothing but fall for anything.
I mean really come on, lets reason together (if u can do so),
if u think its ok to bypass immorality like many in this current age we're in, w/ homosexuality in all our walks of life 'cuz u and others deem it natural (?), and how u were born, and yer civil rights etc etc, then........
why cant we say, do away w/ the commandment not to kill?
i mean, i was born a socio-path/pyschopath and i love to kill
and its natural for me, and heck everybodies doing it anyways so why not make it legal and not a sin?
yeah, i like that idea. u get to homo rape people and i get to kill u/them/anybody too! why is that wrong rat?
And hey! lets not forget the thieves. they wanna steal. got any valuables u wanna hide rat? better hide them good cuz congress just weaseled another law saying its ok to steal, cuz thats what they do....bend over for any active interest groups.
(oops, dont wanna talk over yer head rat) why can u be homo and they cant be klepto rat? huh rat? huh psuedos?
i could go on but unless u r stupid or a waif, u get the pt, right rat? or do u or anybody else wanna prove my pt for the evil contentious nature u possess and still belabor a pt that Jesus and company made clear for u over 2,000yrs ago?
if any of u do contend, then i wont bother to respond for u r no different than those theives murderers and perverts that were in the raucous crowds of jerusalem calling for Jesus' death in the first place. God has a place, a judgement made especially for u to perhaps join them as it were. oh, and God is God so he can also do as he pleases too, right rat? i mean its only fair, right rateyes? at least he gave u and yours a warning, didnt he rat?
everydays a new day. and with Gods help, we can all leave our pasts behind. but u gotta ask. u gotta confess. u gotta give up the steering wheel and our stupid understandings, min by minute if necessary. me included.
The Bible is pretty clear on this issue. It's not we who are judging, the Bible has already passed judgement - we are just agreeing with what the Bible says, and by Bible I mean the inspired, infallible, Word of God. Those who choose to disregard or take out certain passages of the Bible do so at their own peril. Once you start picking and choosing what you think should or shouldn't be in the Bible, then you are playing God... that is a scary position to put yourself in...
1 Cor. 6:9-
9"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
Yes, there is forgiveness for all who have been involved with these things, but we are called to come out of those things and live a new life... Like it says in verse 11: "And that is what some of you WERE"... past tense.