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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 09:18 PM
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

How long has he been in IC?

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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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Yuuup. I'm not entirely sure my sort-of wife thinks that other people are real, that they exist. Their inner lives certainly don't register or matter and for the most part the whole world exists for her to interrogate or complain at.
Is she really just an unhappy person or is she too selfish to understand that the world is not there to make her happy?

So often my H will get mad at people and and they are idiots when he either is in the wrong or won't consider things from their side. He works from home so I have helped him temper his response and think about people's motivation. It wasn't right that he treated people with so much contempt. His career has taken off with the coaching. I want him to apply that at home.

I just want him to be there for me and to be WITH me.

In the end the result is the same between can't and won't but my feeling hurt would be a lot lower if I knew for a fact that it was can't.

I know this isn't his strong suit but he doesn't seem to want to work on it if it involves more than wishing it or just showing up.

Seriously, the hitting himself in the head response is just nuts. I think he would rip his often head off to avoid things of he could.

Who at 50 years old acts like that? What is wrong with him?

I am sorry I am venting so much. I feel guilty. I am going behind his back. It isn't what I do. I am at a loss. I believe marriage is there to make us better people. This is a challenge for me. I won't accept won't but I can accept can't.

He has some narcissistic characteristics but he isn't a narcissist in a classical sense. He is a control freak disguised as a nice guy. This makes him resentful and while he is starting to understand that he is doing this to himself and it isn't being done to him it is all about work and not about home.

Aah!

I am just venting. I know it. I need to breath and let my frustration pass.

Does anyone have a recommendation on a good Android keyboard? I like the swipe on this but it changes words even when it seemed to agree with what I wrote at first.

It probably doesn't want to change. I think it is a narcissist. I am surprised it didn't "correct" that into "nice assist".

<g >
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 09:50 PM
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

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But that shows that it is a choice. They choose to stay married to their fantasy world.
For a narcissist and those with some other mental illnesses, it's not a choice. Their brain is not wired to allow them to end their fantasy world.

Many others have emotional problems that are not quite mental illnesses that keep them from being able to self assess. It's too scary for them to do this.
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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

And yet he is terrified to be alone...
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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How long has he been in IC?
He did about 6 months with one guy that didn't really help. He has been with this very pro marriage guy since about March.

I just think you have to do the work in between sessions if anything will be accomplished. If it isn't work or sci-fi it doesn't get much traction.
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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 10:41 PM
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Are some people incapable of introspection?

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He did about 6 months with one guy that didn't really help. He has been with this very pro marriage guy since about March.

I just think you have to do the work in between sessions if anything will be accomplished. If it isn't work or sci-fi it doesn't get much traction.
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So, he's been 5-15 times to his current IC?

Should he have a diagnosis by now?

Should he be at the point of acceptance?

Should he be able to admit it?

Say, for example, he's BPD based on your "terrified to be alone" statement. His IC may never even tell him he's BPD.

BPDers often are N also, btw.

What then?

Are you in IC? It could help you learn how to cope.
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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

Getting back to this...

He isn't BPD.

He was not supervised well as a lad, but he was loved. He got into a lot of trouble because of it, and lied to protect himself. IMO, suffered physical injury that would have been prevented with proper supervision. But I love his folks. We lost his mom a few years ago and I feel that loss to this day. I loved her very much.

We separated a few weeks ago.

My fault. I reached a peak.

I am trying to find a therapist. I did drag my feet on that for a while. It is irritating looking for a therapist to deal with anger and having them not get back to you. Must be some kind of test.

One kid left at home. They are very much alike. But she has said she is enjoying our time alone. That surprises me and saddens me. They ski together. He cooks for her. Takes her places. Yet, she prefers me. Not fair. His personality isn't mine. He often fails to get her humor. Gets angry. Takes things wrong. Always thinks he is being blamed. If I am not madly in love with him, he can't relate to anyone else.

God. Maybe he just isn't that bright.

Head injuries as a kid?? Hockey. Getting the crap kicked out of him by another kid. Falls. Minor explosions. He played with chemicals.

Or, maybe these are mommy issues.


Whatever. The answer isn't important. What are we going to do?

I can't say I have missed him. I think apart from the fact that he has buried himself in work, maybe he has benefited from the distance, too.

We still discuss his work from a technical standpoint. We are still a team there.

I think that I could easily divorce at this point.

But I think that wouldn't be the right choice.

I think he has conquered what he can and might make incremental improvements. He isn't cheating. Isn't watching porn or going to strip clubs. Has become a key player at work. Whether our younger likes him as much as me or not, he is a good dad. His personality is what it is. Brain injury? Aspergers?

I am bored.

So I need to unbored myself.

He isn't deep.

That's the only real problem. I want depth with a guy. Or maybe I am ripe for an affair.

Emotional depth and sex.

Yup.

So... Where can I simulate depth with a guy but not risk my marriage?

Is there a guy version of SIRI?
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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 08:23 AM
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

I think your quip about Asperger's may be more on-target than you realize. The fact that he doesn't "get" humor, along with what seems to be a genuine lack of understanding regarding anything emotional, could be indicators of Asperger's. If he's highly functioning, it might be mistaken for "emotional issues" even by a therapist.

In any case, though, "can't" or "won't" mean little if you're not getting your needs met in your marriage. "Won't" might make you feel more patient with him, but it doesn't do much to address your actual problem. You and your husband seem to be very incompatible when it comes to emotional intimacy. No matter why that is the case, it's still the case. Only you can decide if that's something you can live with long-term.
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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 09:13 AM
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

There are people that are incapable of introspection and there are people that like you said just aren't that deep or bright. I'm like you, I require depth. My ex hb, while he has his good points (great sense of humor, and a generally decent person), isn't that bright or deep, and I doubt he could spell introspection. His opinion of the role of a wife is to cook his dinner, clean the house to his satisfaction, put out on command (for his pleasure only), and otherwise be seen and not heard. Maybe he'll find someone who agrees with this but so far he's been divorced twice and hasn't been able to keep a woman around.

So do I get depth with my second hb? Well I get more, not as much as I'd like, but he is all around a much better partner. I used to talk to my dad a lot about things as he had a lot of depth and was quite introspective, but as he's now been gone almost 2 years I don't really have anyone to fill that hole. I'd like to fill it, but in many ways hubby and I are close and I wouldn't want to risk that. And I would miss him terribly if he was gone, but if you don't miss him you're in a much different place. I think it's good to decide if you're happier with or without them and make decisions accordingly.
On a positive note my older son is showing signs of depth and introspection at 13, so maybe I'll have a buddy there like I had with my dad.
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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 09:16 AM
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

Some people don't seem capable of introspection.

There is an old saying: The unexamined life is not worth living.

There is also a corollary to that: The examined life is not worth living.

The latter applies to people who can't face up to the course of their lives, who would rather not examine themselves and see just how empty they are.


Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

Thanks guys.

I feel really guilty admitting I haven't missed him much.

Rowan, you are in NJ, right? What's the timetable for separation before divorce here?

Do I want a divorce? I don't have a strong desire for one. But I also don't have a strong desire to stay married.

I think I have entered the ....

Indifferent Zone.

That's an odd place to find myself.
I don't really trust that I am here permanently. I suspect I am just peacefully enjoying my alone time.

So. Can or won't and am I able to make myself happy without that connection?

Is it really depth that I want or a belief that I can trust him? I think that is it.

I see sharing as a way to build trust and since he has previously broken trust, I struggle to recover without sharing, depth and introspection.

I think Mavash was onto something about pain avoidance. Shame is painful. People will do amazingly destructive things that increase pain to avoid facing shame. I'm watching Big and Tall Section do that rather than fix his marriage to LostWifeCrushed.

My husband struggles with his shame. Plus he struggles with whatever his emotional deficiency is - could be Aspergers could just be the result of shame or a lower IQ and EQ than I am used to. All of the above?

Well, all this writing out loud suggests that I need to examine how trust can be built without a lot of talk.

I don't think it can.

Well, I am not struggling or dying over this so I am counting that blessing. Indifference can be kind of nice!

It won't last. I'll try to savor it for now.

I wish I were savoring it from Mexico or somewhere warmer though.
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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 03:09 PM
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

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Rowan, you are in NJ, right? What's the timetable for separation before divorce here?
No, sorry, I'm in Georgia.
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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

How's the weather there?
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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 03:27 PM
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

Currently 54 and overcast.

It was 77 and sunny with a light breeze here yesterday.
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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are some people incapable of introspection?

No fair!
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