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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-03-2016, 07:56 AM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

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Originally Posted by Evinrude58 View Post
You are going to drag this out and hurt yourself more. Once this stuff starts, it doesn't get better. She's using the separation thing to bang the OM. She knows he isn't going to last, but is with him either way.
I do NOT think she loves you whatsoever. She shows zero remorse.
You will be begging and pleading for her to stay; it will only drive her away.
I'm just going to tell you the truth: you should talk to a lawyer and file for divorce. You don't have to finalize it, but letting her choose and you doing the pick me dance ensures she is gone. And that's great, because now you have a chance to find a woman who won't cheat on you.
Kids and money are excuses for you to dodge doing the obvious right thing and divorcing your cheating wife. I know it hurts. I've been through it. I can tell you that no matter what happens, nothing will ever be the same. You can't have the woman you married. She doesn't exist anymore. You'd be better off starting over with someone else.
I'm sure you won't. I know you don't like to hear all this--- it's true.
One last thing--- separations almost invariably lead to divorce.
I'm very sorry. I know you're hurting. I'd highly recommend some Zoloft. Go see your doctor and tell him you're having anxiety attacks. This will help. I know because I experienced them, too.
Good luck.
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Evinrude58 hit the nail right on the head. In every thread I have read, if the cheater asks for a trial separation they use it to further their affair with out their Betrayed Spouse in the way. Where did she stay in the initial separation? That's right with him. Now she is staying with friends, but still works with him. And as long as they are in contact with each other at work, this thing will continue.

Trying to reason with her, giving her space, crying in front of her, begging her, are all things that have to stop now. It makes you look weak and needy in her eyes, and makes the AP look even better. You have to stop accepting these halfhearted crumbs she is throwing you. You need to make it plain to her she's either all in or all out.

I also agree there seems to be no love for at all, there can be no love without respect and she has non for you. So, go to a lawyer and file for divorce. Tell her you have decided the separation is a No Go. That you are not going to have your wife flaunt another man in your face. She must be shown consequences. Then you lay out what you would need from her to try to rebuild trust and make you believe she really wants to save the marriage and stop the impending divorce.

1) She quits the job ASAP, she can get a job sacking groceries at Kroger till she can find another teaching job. 2) She is to write a No Contact email to other man, that is to be read and approved by you before being sent. 3) You get all access to her electronics including pins and passwords. 4) GPS tracking on her phone is to be on at all times. 4) She must go to Individual Counseling to strengthen her boundaries. 5) She is to write a complete timeline of the entire affair from start to finish, so you know what it is your trying to forgive. 6) She must tell her parents, and you yours, or other close trusted family for moral support. 7) You and her both must go for STD testing.

Put consequences on her for her horrible actions. If she is truly interested in repairing your marriage these requirements will be no problem for her. You can later stop the divorce if she is truly working hard to do everything you need to rebuild with her. If she is truly checked out she will refuse, in which case the divorce moves forward and you get yourself free. You must stand up for yourself here. I know these things sound like the opposite of what you feel you should do, but you have to willing to lose the marriage to save it. When showing this kind of strength and conviction in front of her it will command respect from her.

If you continue to limp along, then you are going to lose her anyway. Don't cry in front of her, don't beg or plead, do not negotiate with her. Lay down the list above as what you need from her to try to repair trust and stick to it. You also need to implement the 180, which is designed to detach you emotionally from her so you can move forward with strength and not be manipulated by her halfhearted commitments. Stay strong.

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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-03-2016, 08:30 AM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

OP, your wife already has shown with her actions and her words that she considers your M as being over. She said she does not want to try to save your M, she went to the OM, she works with the OM , she communicates with the OM (she presented you all necessary excuses "it's so hard") and she spent time with you only for the kids and after her surgery when she needed your help.

There is a slim chance she might come back (for whatever motivation) if you file for D, but I would not get my hopes up, especially do not believe that she would come back because she found her love for you again. If she comes back it's most likely because plan A has failed (and she already admitted that it would not work) and good old hubby is better than being alone with all those kids and bills to pay.

The whole separation thing imho is just inconsequential BS, she can do what she wants and you wait instead of moving on (R or D), either you stay together or not. If not go through with D. If you want to R file for D and present your conditions (other people told you that) and if it works out you can stop D at any time.

Last edited by rzmpf; 05-03-2016 at 08:36 AM.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-03-2016, 09:14 AM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

I didn't have to read every word of every post but you are deeply in the "pick me game", which does not usually end well.

She has already spent the last separation banging her boyfriend and you are going to let her cake eat some more.

my suggestion to you is file for divorce and tell her after this separation that the first step will be a polygraph test and that if she is having sex with her boyfriend there will be no reconciliation,. if you get past that, which I doubt you will, then you can worry about expectations.

you begging her is having the reverse effect and she now has you sitting there in an open marriage that you did not sign up for.

And please stop saying she loves you because she does NOT love you enough to give up her boyfriend. the quicker you accept that the better chance you have to get yourself out of this mess.
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-03-2016, 09:26 AM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

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Originally Posted by 2arebetter View Post
My wife did say that it was going to be extremely hard and next to impossible to separate herself from this other guy because they work together and he is going through some really rough stuff in his life (mother died of cancer, he may have it again too).
Unfortunately you cannot force her to divorce herself of feelings. Her feelings for him outweigh the guilt she has for what she's done.
Quote:
I thought I could handle her working towards no communication and not breaking it off immediately (they work together, they have to communicate). They're both teachers so they wouldn't be seeing each other every day in the classroom soon anyway. Over this past weekend I started to become more and more agitated that she wasn't really making any attempts to stop communication.
You went about it the wrong way and I am shaking my head at the way the counselor went about it, as well. What you did was set up justification ( in her mind) for distancing herself from you and going closer to the new man.

Quote:
She was reaching out to him quite often, as if they were still good friends. This morning I told her I don't know if I can try much longer and that she's the one driving us to a bitter divorce. I think I actually had a panic attack after sending the message (numbness, hyperventilating, light headed, etc...) She says she loves me and I believe her. I spoke to my counselor and she says that she may love me but doesn't respect me. She said that need to let her feel how bad she needs to feel and that I should pretty much tell her I "release" her in a way. She said that it can have a pretty big effect.
1. I know what is going on
2. I am asking you to end it with him
3. I don't need a response from you
4. I will not check in on you

That is how you drop a bomb on a cheating spouse. It may seem too nice and passive, but it leaves them wondering and out to sea. She has to have 100% responsibility for what she has done. When you and her argue, she feels that she places responsibility on your shoulders for her actions. That makes it easier for cheaters to cheat.

Quote:
We're going to start the complete separation again this week and she is going to start going to regular weekly counseling. We aren't going to communicate other than for scheduling and kids purposes.

I'm so afraid that I'll lose her. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of situation and how did you repair your marriage?
Besides having a similar past experience (personally), this is something that I have spent a lot of time researching. Your feelings are not your friend right now. They are important, but can drive you to unhealthy actions. Right now isn't the time to "save the marriage." Right now is the time for her to get some direction. There has to be a marriage worth saving. If it is done wrong, you will be left with:
1. a woman that still has feelings for him
2. a woman that doesn't really want to be with you, except for convenience.
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-03-2016, 09:57 AM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

What are you doing?

The time for being nice is over. She has no respect for you anymore. Women can't love a man they don't respect. Show her how strong you are by serving her with divorce papers. You have to be willing to lose your marriage if you want to save it.

I’ve posted this before but it definitely applies to you.

You may think you want her back right now but a few years down the road, you would probably regret it.

Think about this...

If you choose to stay with her you will never trust her again…there will always be doubts. You will never be able to look at her the same. The innocence of your marriage is gone, never to return. Now that you know what she is capable of, every time she leaves the house you will be wondering where she really is and who she’s really with. Every time she does or says something strange, you will read something into it. Every time she doesn’t answer her cell phone, you will trigger. Are you willing to check up on her and verify what she says and does for the rest of your life? This will drive you nuts and it will also drive her nuts and eventually she will leave or cheat again. I’ve read that it takes anywhere from 2 to 5 years to R. I do not believe that is true. I don’t think you will ever get over a betrayal like this and if you do, you will be eating $hit sandwiches for many, many years only to realize you made the wrong decision. Do you really want to drag this out, at the expense of your emotional, physical, financial well-being, just to have it end anyway? The relationship you had is gone forever. She killed it. Marriage is hard enough to make work without betrayal…nearly impossible with it.

I honestly haven’t heard of many marriages that survive infidelity and reconcile when the wife is the one who cheats. Maybe It’s a biology/pride thing...it was partly for me. My advice is for you to file for divorce. Cheating = Divorce. Those are the consequences for her cheating. If she is truly remorseful, she can earn you back, putting you in the power position. If she chooses not to do the work, than you are ahead of the game, and it wouldn’t have worked out anyway. You will have saved yourself many years of hell.

One last note. I came here in 2011 when I was in very similar situation as you. What I have written above to you is essentially the advice I got. I wish I would have followed that advice and got out instead of torturing myself with indecision and the emotional hell, only to regret it later.
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-03-2016, 10:20 AM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

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Originally Posted by straightshooter View Post
I didn't have to read every word of every post but you are deeply in the "pick me game", which does not usually end well.

She has already spent the last separation banging her boyfriend and you are going to let her cake eat some more.

my suggestion to you is file for divorce and tell her after this separation that the first step will be a polygraph test and that if she is having sex with her boyfriend there will be no reconciliation,. if you get past that, which I doubt you will, then you can worry about expectations.

you begging her is having the reverse effect and she now has you sitting there in an open marriage that you did not sign up for.

And please stop saying she loves you because she does NOT love you enough to give up her boyfriend. the quicker you accept that the better chance you have to get yourself out of this mess.
I agree. Your wife sounds just like my sister in law. My brother in law spent almost 3 years doing the "pick me" game. It was a wasted effort. She would get his hopes up and then dash them. It was so cruel. He finally filed and the divorce is final this month. He is so relieved and happy that he's moving on.

I don't think I know one couple that did a trial separation and then actually reconciled. All are divorced now.
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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I'm trying my best to see everyone's point of view. I think I'm going to start the process of working towards divorce.

If I'm honest, I still hope she can find the strength to break things of and REALLY work on our marriage, but I think I need to prepare for that not happening.

I might catch some heat for this... I think my wife doesn't necessarily, really love this other guy. I think she has an addiction to him. I think she is in such a low point of her life that she can't even think straight or make decisions. She's on medication for depression and maybe it's not helping her how it should. I sincerely want good things for my wife because no matter what happens I want to be able to raise our children in an environment where they see happy parents, even if we separate. I want to be able to have birthday parties and holiday gatherings together where we aren't fighting or completely unhappy. I've become really close to my in-laws and don't want them out of my life too (they have been COMPLETELY supportive towards me).

I feel like I'm starting to understand or become more comfortable with the idea that I may be okay without her in my life. I still don't want that, but I think it might have to be a reality if she won't change.
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 11:45 AM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

Once this S*** starts, it doesn't get better. Just a warning. I think filing for divorce is the right thing to do. Your wife no longer loves you. I hate to say it, but sure, it's an addiction. Thing is, she's addicted to another man. Call it love or whatever. She's NOT going to get addicted to you again--- herein lies the problem. Doesn't every man need/want to be married to a woman that's addicted to HIM???? You'd be FAR better off finding a woman to be addicted to YOU, rather than trying to get your wife to love you again. I'm sorry, I just have no confidence in the idea of a woman falling in love again with her husband after infidelity and feelings are lost. I've heard it happens, but I've never seen it, and I don't even hear about it very often.

Good luck and sorry you're in this. I know personally how much it hurts.
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 12:00 PM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

DO NOT LEAVE THE HOME. DO NOT ALLOW HER TO RELOCATE THE CHILDREN. THIS IS BEDROCK.
STUCTURE HER TIME WITH THE CHILDREN BASED ON THIS.

Will you read links, mediate on them, and post how you will act on them? Perhaps the singularly depressing work of literature I read going up was the "Sound and the Fury". That's you life right now: chaos, drama, blah, blah, blah. Your life will remain a non stop pity party until you break this cycle by stepping back and letting go. Start by reading this link

Critical Readings For Separation and Divorce - LoveShack.org Community Forums. Note number 6 applies to her family not your's. They may help or may hinder but cannot be counted on. The 180 is meant to help you detach, not for her to re-attach to you. It's purpose is to help you to move forward.

You need to expose what has happened. Dr Harvey says far and wide and to any child above the age of four: Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums

Plan on your post marriage life. Do not just accept what ever happens. Do not leave the house, know how your state determines custody and strive to maximize those aspects that will increase your custody. Use this link to develop and overall plan.

CWI - a strategy
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 12:07 PM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

Most important of all: her adultery does not define you. Your reaction to her adultery defines you.

Your first thought of the day: how will I define myself today.

Your last thought of the day: how did I define myself today? How will I improve.

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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 12:20 PM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

I'm sorry you have to deal with this situation. This is a tough one. It seems to me that your wife doesn't respect you or the marriage and seems to value the OM equally. It will take alot on her part to decide what and who she's willing to commit to. You'll have to decide wether what she offers is acceptable or not. She doesn't seem to sorry that this has happened. It will hurt alot either way whether you decide to stay together or not. You'll also have to take into consideration that the fact the courts probably aren't going to care she had the affair. The only thing they take into account is that she's the mother and they will be reluctant to take them away from her. I'm concerned that she doesn't seem to care much for you or the kids.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 09:20 PM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

I just read your initial post not the replies. Wow, you're being far too kind. She's mugging you off. The poor kids having to witness this. Do your kids and yourself a favour and **** her off. Why are you doing this? Get a life, not in a mean way but this is clearly one of those things that's holding you back. The kids don't need this ****, forget her!

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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 09:39 PM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

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Originally Posted by 2arebetter View Post
I'm trying my best to see everyone's point of view. I think I'm going to start the process of working towards divorce.

If I'm honest, I still hope she can find the strength to break things of and REALLY work on our marriage, but I think I need to prepare for that not happening.

I might catch some heat for this... I think my wife doesn't necessarily, really love this other guy. I think she has an addiction to him. I think she is in such a low point of her life that she can't even think straight or make decisions. She's on medication for depression and maybe it's not helping her how it should. I sincerely want good things for my wife because no matter what happens I want to be able to raise our children in an environment where they see happy parents, even if we separate. I want to be able to have birthday parties and holiday gatherings together where we aren't fighting or completely unhappy. I've become really close to my in-laws and don't want them out of my life too (they have been COMPLETELY supportive towards me).

I feel like I'm starting to understand or become more comfortable with the idea that I may be okay without her in my life. I still don't want that, but I think it might have to be a reality if she won't change.
She doesn't need to work on the marriage...she needs to work on herself. She's a liar and a cheater...and she sees nothing wrong with it. You need to figure out why you want to stay with someone who has so little regard for not only herself, but for you, too. Work on finding your own self worth and strength, and that will help you move forward. Your happiness doesn't lie in what your wife does or doesn't do, at this point. Praying for you, hugs.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-07-2016, 08:47 PM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

Divorce isn't nearly as bad as you're afraid it's going to be.

Especially given where you're coming from.
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 01:43 PM
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Re: Can this actually save my marriage, or will I break first

You're not alone. My husband and I do not have extramarital issues, but my husband has no respect for my feelings and I really wish there was something I could do to change that. I told myself in June that I would give it 6 months. I would do everything in my power to be everything I need to be, and if I'm still unhappy in January, I'm leaving. I think that forces me to assume as much accountability as I possibly can, and not leave questioning if there was anything else I could have done. I would put a much shorter timeline on your situation, like 1 month, and with more specific guidelines of what you are and are not willing to tolerate after that month is up. It's not an ultimatum for her, you can even keep this entirely to yourself, it's just so that time doesn't keep slipping away from you with nothing being done to change your circumstances, and to give yourself a deadline to change how you're living your life.
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