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Old 03-10-2009, 12:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Marriage Fitness - Can it work?

After looking at the banner for weeks, I broke down and spent the 300+ for the tele boot camp. I'm going to chronicle results for anyone who's interested.

On Mort's website advice I got the "lone Ranger Track" Got the box - huge package! Cd's DVD's Books, Big three ring binder. Flipped thru some of the material, watched the DVD. P.S. The lone ranger track appears to be the same as the Duo Track with the same material.

Observations:

1. Make sure you have a fast forward for the DVD. Good stuff on there, but 10+ minutes of 'intro' for Mort. Blah blah blah, he's so great, etc. Skip that. He'd better be great, i just spent 300.00

2. Some different concepts -

A) white flags (made them but haven't used them yet.) BUT, the very act of us making them (we colored ours together with peace symbols) was SOOOO healing for us. Just knowing that they would be there so that our 'heart to hearts' didn't turn into head butting sessions has kept us from even having to use them yet!

We even managed to joke that since we used pencils as the flagpoles we can always sharpen them and use them as spousal skewers Yeah, I know we are weird, but it got us laughing and happy again. wow..

Score one for Marriage Fitness (MF)

B) Lone Ranger - The concept that you can change your marriage with just one person participating in the program. How unique. I did notice the book came in hard back for those more than usually stubbon spouses

When I first got it, He gave me one of those rolling eyes 'here we go again' and flat out said he wasn't going into any more of these stupid counseling things. I said "oh don't worry, this one only takes one of us doing it to work".

Well. That drove him NUTS. He kept peeking at it on the bookshelf wondering what super secret stuff I was learning that was going to make a difference even if he didn't work on it too. I just stayed happy and would occasionally say things like 'wow' and laugh at some of the things I saw in it. He would come and try to peer over my shoulder at it, I would close the book playfully and say to him 'yes? can i help you?' he would then hrumph and say never mind and walk off.

I spent Feb (see post) on working on being the nice, sweet me. I got minimal results. Or so I thought. After Feb was over, and I was no longer putting love notes into his wallet every morning, he has started to call me on his lunch hour just to say hi. wow.

Plus he said how much he liked playing games with me.

Score Two for MF.

He has started to cuddle me in his sleep. So what? try not touching in bed for nine months and you will see what a big deal this is!

C) Sneaky Lone Ranger to Duo Track -

Hubby is Notorious (and should be shot) for never knowing (or saying) what he wants to do with our personal time. We end up sounding like Chip and Dale most evenings "whatever you want, oh no whatever you want" etc. So last night when he started with the 'whatever you want' I decided to call his bluff. I know he wanted to watch a movie. I wanted actual time doing things together. Sex would have been ideal. Or playing a game. Or making love. Or snuggling. Or talking. Or sex. hehe.

So, I said:

How about going over some of this Marriage Fitness stuff? Deer in the headlights look from him. NOOOOOOO! heh.

But due to the unspoken rules of his game, the person that finally says what they want is not to be refused. So he says *gulp* ok. What's it about? Do I have to do anything? Is this going to take long?

Nah, only as long as you want. Bring the flags and we can play dodge flag if it gets too boring. (Oh! chance for spousal dodge ball? Possible pain and danger? what male can refuse that?) So he agrees, bringing his flag and making 300 Sparta sounds on the way to the bed. (men, gotta love em)

We sit on the bed and go over some stuff. Only did part of the first chapter. It was basically on why did we fall in love with each other and on our past relationships. What interesting questions tho! We were able to answer all the questions and low and behold, it spawed us actually talking about ourselves, our past history.

I learned more about HOW he works and THINKS last night from his stories of his past relationships than I have in the ENTIRE time i've known him! And to think we talked ALL the time (4 hours a day or more) when we were dating and never learned this stuff about each other. How very interesting.

The conversation stayed light and fun and informative. He was empathetic towards me for the first time in months and we were both wow'd at what we learned.

Yes, we atually TALKED. We would naturally start talking about the next concept before we turned the page and saw that we had just answed the next questions. Then we snuggled and held each other.

Now as you know, I was interested in sex, he wasn't. (well wasn't willing to admit it anyway) this gave me a WONDERFUL chance to practice Mark's concepts. Guys, just an FYI, I'd bet the same things would work on reluctant females.

He asked me to tickle his back, I said sure. But this time, I also tickled his butt, legs, inside of his thighs, his scrotum between his legs etc. Well, he would NEVER admit it was turning him on. He was laying on his stomach. But I'm very good at reading signs. Breathing, goosebumps, etc. I know he was aroused. Good. Lets keep doing this for a few nights and see how he does with the 'oh i don't need sex concept'.

I never mentioned anything about sex, just kept stroking and licking and nibbling and tickling his back as he seemed ready for it, but never said anything or did anything else too overt.

I would go just to the level of him almost groaning then back off. I didn't want him to totally lose control, just get to the verge of it. If he wanted to pretend he wasn't aroused, well ok, I'll give him that safety net.

After that he rolled over to read and I lay on my back to read and finish our dessert of fresh blackberries and homemade whip cream. Well, I'm a girl who is very oral and loves her whip cream, so I was making some very quiet noises, rather unmistakeable for arousal.

Finally he FLIPPED over in one leap and said "ah ha!" he thought he had caught me masterbating. I just smiled at him in an innocent way and kept eating the raspberry. Yes dear?

He looked a little unsure and said, oh.. i didn't know who was there. I thought you had gotten out of bed a while ago. (now hands up anybody that buys that story) but I said, nope... just me. Want some?

He said, um... uh... no, i'm tired. and rolled back over. But he was quite uncomfortable laying on his stomach after that

This morning he gave me a big hug as he was leaving for work and i was dressed only in a thin blanket and played with my boobs for a bit. (guys, please come up with different foreplay!)

So far so good....

Score Three for MF

3. The tele-conferences.

Um. I hate to say this, but I'm not sure I'm going to bother right now. They are just pre-recorded sessions you can listen to any time if you miss the 'call in' time, which just happens to be in the middle of his and my personal time in the evenings.

Basically a monologue on his concepts. I didn't even get thru the first one when I decided that perhaps time spent actually WITH my hubby was better than listening to the monologue.

If there were an actual Q and A session where I got to hear other people asking questions or some kind of interaction I might have been more interested. This stuff I can download from the internet.

MF - minus one for boring monologues. (back to 2)

Concepts I'm keeping - Absolute Time together in the evenings. I schedule 1.5 hours M-F and 10 hours on the weekends. We usually miss the UA time on the weekends, but do things 'near' each other. However, the weekday times are for and about US.

That was really difficult with six kids, businesses etc. We did it anyway and it's really helping. It was a carry over from a Marriage builder 15 hour a week thing, but I see Mort has the same idea.

I liked being able to use the words and concepts I found in the MF video to explain to Hubby that watching movies doesn't COUNT as personal time. Why? Because personal time cannot be time spent looking in the same direction! you must be doing something wherein you are looking at each other. He finally got it. Movies, driving, sports events, etc.. you are looking in the same direction. Talking, games, sex etc you are looking AT each other.

Score one for MF for being able to explain what UA time is in Man Speak!

Total: MF 3

I have gone from feeling totally impossible about this relationship, to having hope for the first time.

Should I keep this thread going? anybody interested in it?




Last edited by snix11; 03-10-2009 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Marriage Fitness - Can it work?

Keep the thread going, after the thread about him leaving early for work hearing this story and that its going in the right direction, is good news.
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Marriage Fitness - Can it work?

Keep the thread going, I do not have $$$ right now to by the program but love what I have read from you so far. Maybe i can just use some of your tips, until $$$ to by the program. And prbably understand my H a little better, and get our relationship back on track. Even sex is not problem for us.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Marriage Fitness - Can it work?

LaBella - there is lots of free info on his site, plus he will email you every couple of days with the concepts.

The three ring binder has been the most helpful - tho I have to admit i haven't actually listened to the CD's yet.

Happy to answer any questions you might have

RH - Happy to keep this one going... the other one was getting a bit stale and I need a positive thread.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Marriage Fitness - Can it work?

Snix-

Please keep this thread going, my husband received all the free info and really liked it. I read your story and it is quite different than mine and I wish you the best. Being married for 24 years, have been through alot and right now we are facing a crisis. So my husband wants to order this course but I just didn't want to invest the money unless is worth it.

I heard you did marriage builders... I really enjoyed the marriage builders it was great, but it caused us a few arguments when it came to the -takers and givers- we started blaming each other, so we decided to quit that, but I have been looking for something else to replace it, since marriage counseling is just not moving us forward.

So I would really aprecciate any information until we make the decision to buy it. Thanks.
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Marriage Fitness - Can it work?

I think it can work, if both partners want it to. And anything is possible with God's help. Even if you're not a religious person, the power of the heart and mind, used together, to solve a problem, is remarkable.
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Yeah! I know I already receive the emails, and been reading as much as I can when I have free time in the office. The problem is that my H is not cooperatating and gets mad everytime he sees anything close to a reading material, he does not believe that "outside" help will actually help, since "he knows everything and knows exactly what we need".

I waste me time reading and all I should do is talk to him, nothing else would do. So anything you put in this thread that will help us go in the right direction would be great.

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Old 03-12-2009, 12:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
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LaBella - at least your husband knows (or thinks he knows) what will help! If he knows exactly what you need, what IS that?

What does he say that will fix your relationship? Even if it's silly, abusive or just plain weird, at least it's a start. Get him talking, get him engaged in anything + some MF positive behavior and you should get somewhere.
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Major setback last night. I'm sure it's at least partly my fault. But i'm not giving up. Will try again tonight.

Lessons Learned:


1. USE THE WHITE FLAGS EVEN IF YOU DON"T THINK YOU WILL NEED THEM. We didn't last night and I think we needed to.

2. SPEAK up for your time together. Guard it and make sure you do things together.


3. Don't give up.

4. Some men are selfish stupid mean knee biting prigs at times. Mine especially.

Always remember that learning to get thru this system will help you in your NEXT relationship if it doesn't help with this one. THat's what keeps me going today. Knowing that even if this selfish $#(@(@ won't work with me, I'm learning the skills to deal with my next relationship.

Found out yesterday that he racked up 380.00 in overdraft fees on his personal account in the last two weeks. My teenager did too! ARGHHHH. We are three months from being flat broke, not bringing in enough money to pay the bills and living on my savings. I closed the teens bank account but hubby said he was 'sorry' and 'didn't know' and 'it wouldn't happen again'. Couple that with other major money problems we are having plus his spending more than 60.00 a week on cigarettes - when he told me he was only spending 5.00.

I was majorly stressed. He got home from work at 230pm (early due to weather) I had to go to the bank to work out mortgage problems - even tho I'm current they were putting me in foreclosure! He went with me and we went to the banks.

After we got done he wanted to go out to eat. (we really can't afford it but i'm not used to saying no to him) Of course I ended up paying. While we were there we started talking about budgets etc. I got a little upset and excused myself for the bathroom. when i came back he asked me what was wrong. I said it was just all so scary.

We left and in the car he held me and said 'don't worry, we will be all right - we aren't naked in a cornfield in Iowa yet' What a sweet loving wonderful thing to say.

But right after that I asked him 'if we lose everything and have to move, will you stay with me and we go together? Can I count on our family?"I needed reassurance of the "better or worse, richer or poorer" type.

He said "I don't know. I can't even think that far" We are talking three months away. I was devastated, realizing i can't count on him to be there for our family. I started crying and he said he hated to be the one to make me feel bad. I said I can handle everything that life throws at me, but to know that I can't count on you to be there breaks my heart. He said he knew that and was sorry I felt that way.

We talked about a 'cut off amount' where we have X in the bank and at that point we stop paying all the bills and give up the house payments etc. We would then split up the money and go our separate ways. He said it was too early to think about that and didn't want to talk about it.

later that night, during our time he is watching TV. I tried to be patient. Then he is doing some art for Spring War. I tried to be patient. He likes to go to bed at 10pm, and it was getting to be 930! HEY, where's our time???? He got rid of the kids then wanted to watch TV. Grrrrrr.

When it finally got to be our time, we played scattergories. whee. sigh. Then I got out the MF book and asked him if he wanted to do some. He said sure. By that time he was pretty tired. I said we could just snuggle and we could do it some other time. He said, no lets do some. One of the questions was "how are you pressuring your spouse" and to STOP pressuring them. whoa.

He said I was pressuring him by telling him he had to change things. I wrote that down. I said any other way? He said "yeah" but didn't say anything. I jokingly said "by doing this book together?" he said yeah, like that.

Again. devastated. Stupid book. I tried to be positive. I said "ok! that's easy to fix!" and went and put the book on the shelf and started cleaning the room. I clean when I'm upset and angry. He said "what did I do?"

Things didn't go well after that. I needed him to say he WANTED to do things with me, the best he could give me was 'if you want to get into bed you are welcome to'.

That wasn't enough for me. I needed him to tell me he wanted me in bed. Stupid? maybe. But he's so unsure about everything else in our life, i NEED him to be clear on the good things he DOES want. Yes I told him that.

Finally after many tears and yelling, he says he would like me to come to bed. I do. we talked a bit. He said that even if things were perfect between us, he doesn't know if he wants me. WHAT??

he says he doesn't know if i'm the right one for him. or if he wants to try or anything. This was breaking my heart, again. He's in a good mood at this point. I'm a little shakey.

Anyway, he finally rolls over to read.

Of all the stupid things, I'm horny. We are both SOOOO shy about sex and we do NOT discuss it or anything. But I wanted to see if I could have some courage. Just an experiment to see if I could do it. So, for the first time in our relationship I said "honey, do you mind if I lay here and masturbate? I'll only be a few minutes" I thought he was going to fall out of the bed. His jaw dropped, his eyes bugged out the whole nine yards. He just LOOKED at me.

Then guess what he said? Nope not that.

He said "i wish you wouldn't. I'm tired and I would feel guilty for not wanting to join in" (did he just tell me not to? selfish prig)

I tried to stay light and perky "oh, don't worry honey. I won't be too long, I just need this and I understand you are tired and please don't feel guilty"

Again he said "i'd really rather you didn't. I couldn't go to sleep if you did. But goodnight and sleep well." and rolled over and started reading his book.

I didn't know what to say after that. Of all the stupid, selfish, mean spirited things he could say! And me with the courage to finally say something that bold! Man I was mad.

So he's still reading 10 minutes later. So much for tired. (lying bastar*) So I'm laying there trying to figure out what to do. I notice my brown silk belt is lying on the bedside. I get it out and start tying up my hands with it. He finally asks me "what on earth do you think you are doing?" I reply, "well i'm tying my hands up so that I don't touch myself. Wouldn't want to keep you up or anything" With a smile.

Now understand that bondage and seeing a girl masturbate are two of his biggest fantasies.

He just says "oh" and rolls back over. JEEZ.

I finally just go to sleep. But I'm up at 4am with insomnia again wondering what in the heck I am supposed to do now.

This morning he gets up and notices I'm in the other room. He says "get back in bed and get some sleep honey" and gives me a warm hug and a kiss on his way out the door.

What is WITH this man???

Last edited by snix11; 03-12-2009 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You will need to read my other post to know the whole story, but basically our communication is broken, and it is taking me sometime to get back in the habit of talking to him w/o expecting some sort of verbal abuse back (see post to understand) and he says that all we need is to shove the past under a rug and start talking like best friends again. But it is very hard for me to just forget, let go and continue like nothing has happen. I had what it is called here an EA (even though I do not consider it really an EA), but for sake of arguments lets considered one, and even though all communication has been broken, he still checks my emails and other stuff and gets upset when I do not tell him that I talk to my MOM, or that my cousin send me an email, even when he can go to my email and see the activity he expects me to not have a private relaxation time by myself I should just be to his beck and call and spend all my free time w/him and nothing else. And sex to solve all the problems in the world. Dont get me wrong sex is good, but not my type of relaxation.
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Marriage Fitness - Can it work?

This thread is very interesting - I've seen his ads around too and have been curious about his program. I'm a couples therapist myself but believe there can be alternatives to face-to-face counseling that can work in some situations.

It sounds like people have been taking what they want to take - and leaving what they want to leave but generally are getting good things from it.

Any thoughts on the price point...for those who have used it, do they feel the price is good for the value received?
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Lisa, I'll let you know. I just keep reminding myself the books come in hard back....
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBella View Post
You will need to read my other post to know the whole story, but basically our communication is broken, and it is taking me sometime to get back in the habit of talking to him w/o expecting some sort of verbal abuse back (see post to understand) and he says that all we need is to shove the past under a rug and start talking like best friends again. But it is very hard for me to just forget, let go and continue like nothing has happen. I had what it is called here an EA (even though I do not consider it really an EA), but for sake of arguments lets considered one, and even though all communication has been broken, he still checks my emails and other stuff and gets upset when I do not tell him that I talk to my MOM, or that my cousin send me an email, even when he can go to my email and see the activity he expects me to not have a private relaxation time by myself I should just be to his beck and call and spend all my free time w/him and nothing else. And sex to solve all the problems in the world. Dont get me wrong sex is good, but not my type of relaxation.
He's right to a point - at least as far as the MF goes. You agree to put aside certain things you ALWAYS fight about and agree for a time not to bring them up.

You use the time together for positive stuff (what program doesn't have that??)

As far as the EA - he has to agree to TRUST you again, which means NOT spying on you - Mort has a big section on that. Very different from other methods. I've stopped spying on Hubby for now. It drove me crazy at first but then i realized - if he's gonna, he's gonna and my time and energy spent worrying and checking on him can be spent towards positive stuff.

So your husband has to stop all the spying. (trust)
You have to agree to start talking like best friends again (trust back)

Haven't gotten to the sex issue yet... will keep you posted. My take on sex is if you are living in the same house, have sex as often as you can both agree happily. And have it as often as the one who wants it the most would like it. But make sure you are both satisfied and happy. It's a powerful tool for keeping the closness alive.

Don't shut him out of sex. Just MHO. (from a sex starved female
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Old 03-13-2009, 08:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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"He said that even if things were perfect between us, he doesn't know if he wants me. WHAT??

he says he doesn't know if i'm the right one for him. or if he wants to try or anything. This was breaking my heart, again. He's in a good mood at this point. I'm a little shakey."

"This morning he gets up and notices I'm in the other room. He says "get back in bed and get some sleep honey" and gives me a warm hug and a kiss on his way out the door.

What is WITH this man??? "

He's using you snix. He's messing with your mind. he's telling you second, without even batting an eyelash, that he doesn't know if he "wants" you. then he's kissing and hugging you the next day. Talk about mixed messages.
He is getting what he needs out of this relationship, or he just would have simply left by now. For someone to constantly be telling you that he isn't sure if he'll want to be there a month from now, three months from now, or tomorrow. He's got you continually living on pins and needles. This is a horrible exsistance. I can't believe you stay and put up with this. Mean, you can't even make love with him, he's just not in it, but he stays.... this tells me, that he's getting something he needs or wants, likely it's a living/financial situation.

I wouldn't tolerate this any longer if I were you. You deserve so much better, dont' you?

To live your life like this, all the things you have described, it's just sad. I wonder, have you ever read your own posts? Really go back and read them, as if you were someone on the outside looking in, and see how sad it really is. He's treating you so badly. Why do you continue to stay? You should move on....
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:04 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I continue to stay in the house because it's my house. And because I believe that if he's staying, he must be sending some kind of message that he does want this to work out maybe. Or, like you said, he would have left by now. He tells me he continues to stay because:

1. I begged him to stay for the sake of the kids (true a year ago)
2. He wants to try.
3. He doesn't have anywhere else to go
4. He's not sure if he wants to stay or not

I talked with him a week ago and let him know, as kindly and gently as I could that I understand he's confused. But that his treatment of me and his not knowing is driving me nuts. that i cannot keep living with him unless he is sure he wants to be here for himself and for us. I said that yes, a year ago when he dropped the i'm leaving bomb (out of nowhere) i begged him to stay. But that if he felt the same way he was free to leave with my blessing. He said thank you and I'll think about it. That's what he always says "I'll think about it" but then he never does. Or at least never comes up with any answers.

He shares with me that all his soul searching and thinking has only made him more confused. That he truly doesn't know what he wants. He doesn't know if he wants to stay. Or if he wants me. Of if he wants anyone.

Yes, it's depressing and crazy making how he treats me. But he keeps saying that i'm the controlling one by telling him he needs to change.

I'm the abusive one by telling him I want him for myself.

I know from a practical standpoint it's nuts. But I can also see the man he used to be sometimes. Kind and brave and giving and so empathetic. He knew (and still does know) what my moods are, sometimes before I do. I don't understand how he can be so tuned in to me and still be so distant. If he can just forgive me for whatever I did or whatever he's mad about me about (he says it's nothing) and get over it, I know we can be happy again.

He greets me warmly when he gets home. I get a hug and a kiss from him. He tells me about his day and asks about mine. Last night we shared leftover salmon together with the kids, feeding each other etc. It was very intimate. I asked him to come lay with me on the beanbag (our couch) and he did. We talked and he held me and stroked my arm lovingly. The kids came in and we cuddled with them and played with them. He checked his email while I fed the baby. He went to bed about 7pm (he hasn't been sleeping well) and got up at 9pm. we watched a part of a movie together and I made dinner. We ate it upstairs in the office/movie room. He then went to bed and I stayed up with the baby. He asked if I was going to come to bed and cuddle him. I said sure and went to give the baby to the teen. By the time I got back up in five minutes, he was fast asleep. I then went downstairs and played and cuddled with the four little kids till they fell asleep around midnight (got to love spring break) I came to bed and tried to cuddle him. He's not too receptive when he's sleeping sometimes. but he always moves his feet to stroke and cuddle mine in his sleep. This morning he gave me a warm hug and a kiss and suggested I get some more sleep.

Yes, I am getting mixed signals. While he stays, for whatever reason, I keep having hope.

I just wish he would get off the fence. He says he doens't like being on the fence - that he's been there so long (over a year now) that it's digging up his butt - but won't DO anything about it. Maddening.

Last edited by snix11; 03-13-2009 at 09:24 AM.
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