turnera

Maybe, BUT, you CAN do a LOT to make them want to. How? By being everything that they want. By being such a perfect mate for them that all they can think about is getting home to you, because being home means feeling good. You just have to know WHAT makes them feel good. That requires spending less time in your brain, and more time in THEIR brain.

MEM11363

Star,
You clearly have a healthy power balance in your marriage. And you also are willing/able to say some things to a male - that many women would NOT say. Don't get me wrong, just about any woman will tell her guy to man up if he isn't having conflict with OTHER people and she thinks he should. But it is much more unusual to hear a woman say "Man up - be tougher/stronger/more assertive with ME"

As for the distance - these are men who are too nice, conflict avoidant, POOR at conflict. They do better by learning to give less when they don't like what they are getting. What you call talking and I call the direct confrontation method is a bust for them because they are so bad at it.

By the way - ALL - of them have talked to their wives multiple times before they post here - with no result. Normal conversation is not working for them.

Star

I think the point I am trying to make and my main concern is, that by advising someone to, be less interested in their partner, go out more without them, stop buying gifts ect, ect IS a dangerous game, The woman can perseve this as maybe something other than what you indend it too and therefore create an even bigger problem, thats's all and that's why I think talking is better than games/tactics, but that's just my personal opinion and preference.

I don't think the treat them mean, keep them keen thing works all the time (it certainly doesn't work with me it just pushes me further away and I disconnect even more) and potentially you could have a ticking bomb in your hands. But I do appreciate some of the points you make.

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BigBadWolf

Sexual attraction has very VERY little to do with talking or mere words.

Sexual attraction is best understood as BEHAVIOR, and is indeed communication through behavior that is ancient, much older than words or language.

That is why talking about such things is rarely working, unless the relationship is already on solid ground in these areas to begin with.

So these things to do, for example, a man to look desirable to a woman, it does very little for him to use words to say "desire me", but instead to show in action that he is desirable himself, and the woman is to see in these actions that she will be attracted to a man that behaves desirably.

And yes, many times this is to talk less, and carry himself more aloof, if there is his woman seeming to ignore him and not be interested in him.

Star

BBW, you have a point, but what I don't agree to is the mind games that have been suggested earlier on in the thread.

It's a dangerous game to play sometimes.

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63Vino

Pretty interesting topic. I have been influenced by your individual thoughts in other posts and really appreciate the varying points of view. Thats is in fact the beauty and purpose of a forum in the first place.

Every man/woman is uniqe in certain ways. I think we could agree on that. Each couple has a make up as well. (what works, how much sex, arguing, etc).

I woud like to chime in here and say that in the end my core belief is that just as a wife witholding sex as a way to get one to "cut the grass" or correct behavior is certainly a game (for lack of a better word) which surely can precipitate a downward spiral of withdraw.. She starts it, then you escalate then she digs in further, then you... Next thing you know one of the two will say enough, you suck and im out.

Im a HUGE fan of working tirelessly to get to the core/truth and think that this should always be the focus.
So if you have two willing patients, then everything is possible.
If someone is "holding back" then I really believe that what's possible is VERY limited. Could VERY well be in the end that two people would be better moving on separately... Getting to the truth will feel best either way and with less conflict.

Im NOT a fan of conflict or confrontation. Skill building in open communication is the key ingredient. We are'nt taught this by anyone in life... we all fumble our way through, some better than others.

my two cents.....well maybe I spent a little more.

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turnera

Yeah, I was just going to say that communication is the number one solution. For BOTH to be heard, acknowledged, and cared about.

MEM11363

I am a calm and clear communicator. After communication fails - what then?
1. Yelling and screaming - not my style - bad example for kids
2. Moving out or filing - way too heavy handed
3. Steadily deprioritizing your spouse - this one is perfect - they understand exactly what this means - you can do it as gradually or rapidly as you like. And they get to decide just how far you want this to go.

Number 3 is such a good option for a good spouse. Because their partner is used to lots of nice emotional and physical support. Start subtracting that and THEIR quality of life rapidly changes. Eventually it begins to create relationship uncertainty. And sometimes that is what it takes.

It is not a game, it is a very rational response when your needs aren't being met.

63Vino

Fair enough mem... "Game" is the word i saw accepted. Didnt really like it either.

I guess thats simply two different opinions. I see the logic in your's no doubt. We've crossed paths on this before.
My side is simply that i "think' this is an indirect way to get there.
I'd still be afraid of that spiral thingy.

Like I said its very possible for this to be effective depending on the people.

I personally would prefer more direct.

__________________
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I don't always know what I'm talking about but I know I'm right. -Muhammad Ali

turnera

Deprioritizing...pretty much like setting your boundaries and giving consequences for them being overrun.

Boundaries are good because they are not telling your spouse what to do - just what YOU will do if YOU don't get what you need. (there's that communication) After that, it's their choice on whether to acknowledge or accept your boundaries. Either way, you stay protected. Of course, your boundaries need to be fair and logical - and loving.

Star

What happens when number 3 (deprioritizing your spouse ) back fires on you, the wife doesn't take the bait and things get worse because of this?

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63Vino

You know I'm really not sure about this discussion.

Maybe i'm misunderstanding.

But if you say that direct communication and expression of what is missing or what you want was not enough to awake the sleeping or misbehaving spouse, is that not a sign that they are'nt really interested in making it work?

And if that even might be true, then retracting "other" things or deprioritizing may surely make that spouse (whom you really dont know what their problem is) feel less loved or even attacked.

I guess maybe when you get to the point, realizing that they don't care all that much about your stated problem, maybe an evaluation of how much "fruit" further or more drastic efforts are gong to bear is in order?

Just typing out loud here.

thoughts?

__________________
DIE TO THE PAST EVERY MOMENT - TWC

I don't always know what I'm talking about but I know I'm right. -Muhammad Ali

MEM11363

Sorry - now I get it. I did a bad job of communicating something that is core to this style of interaction. I DON'T BLUFF. This is why I don't play poker - well I do for fun - for penny stakes - but never for real money. I am not good at bluffing. Never have been. My "style" which works for me - is that when I do something I mean it. So the last time I had to do this deprioritization thing in my marriage - the term "spiraling out of control" had no meaning. I was willing to have the marriage end over the issue if she was determined not to address it.

It was about 5 years ago. I felt very poorly treated. I had talked and talked and talked. No effect. So when I reduced her priority I accepted that she might choose to escalate. And I was at peace with that. I didn't make my choice of how to act when I was angry. In fact I was totally calm. Very determined though. If she had escalated at that point I would have moved out. And if after 90 days she still felt she was in the right - I would have filed. Hey this was after a YEAR of trying to talk this to resolution.

It didn't come to that. After a few months of being a lessor priority she did what I had been asking. And FYI, outside the bedroom I am definitely NOT the alpha in this marriage. But I am alpha enough to ensure my boundaries are respected.

Star

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MEM11363

Hell yes it made her feel less loved. Not attacked though. And I DID love her less at that point. This wasn't an act. My behavior very accurately communicated in a 100 percent unambiguous way that I was feeling steadily less loving towards her.

I prefaced this whole thing with - I was confident that my behavior up until then had been very loving, kind and supportive and that HER behavior was NOT in response to anything I was doing wrong/not doing right in the marriage. HER behavior was - IMO - simply selfish and lazy - AND it seemed to be getting worse.