63Vino

K I see it different, thanks for the clarification.
It is a major point to say that you had exhausted all other attempts at direct communications, had resigned yourself to leaving AND that basically what this is, is a "leaving" the spouse in an incremental fashion and IF they happen to wak up in this process your willing to reverse it.

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DIE TO THE PAST EVERY MOMENT - TWC

Longtime Husband

I have watched this discussion with much interest. My initial reaction/answer to this question is that you certainly have to be prepared for such an eventuality.

I think that, as someone else has already pointed out, all people and relationships are different. But what is not different is the fact that, in order to "negotiate", one must do so from a position of power. This power might have to be created. I think that it's often necessary to be willing to "walk away" in order to gain the power (and by "gaining power", i'm referring to just getting the relationship on equal footing).

For twenty years, I tried all of the wrong ways of dealing with my frustrations the "right way". I tried being the "better husband" and I tried talking with my wife about the problem. Talking with her resulted in her responding that my need for more sex was immature, sophomoric & petty...100% of the time.

It wasn't until I laid it on the line & informed her that this situation would have to change or I would make no guarantees that I would be with her into old age....in fact, I pretty much told her that I would be GONE eventually. Well, she did not take well to this at all. Her personality is to dig in her heels & stand her ground which is exactly what she did (at first). For two days I slept in the spare bedroom....I was devastated (as was she, but the difference is that I made damn sure that she didn't see my hurt) & I assumed that she would very likely tank the marriage before she'd give in. My point was was made after 2 days....she has been a firecracker ever since. This was 2 months ago & I fully expect that we might need to revisit this "conversation" again at some point in the future if she slides back into her asexual comfort zone.

I truly believe that this worked for me for 3 key reasons: 1.) this was the first time I ever threatened to leave her in 20+ years of marriage. 2) I have always paid her the utmost respect & always will. And 3.) This was most certainly a "hill that I was willing to die upon"....and she knew it!

So whatever you do, be it "mind games" or having a discussion, you'd better be willing to accept any & all possible eventualities, even the REALLY bad ones....but only if you really want things to change.

Ya gotta do what you gotta do!!

63Vino

All good.. jsut need to be clear with all that this is a last ditch type of thing and IF your treating it as a "negotiation", you must be VERY prepared to walk away from the "table" if you dont get what you want.

Its CERTAINLY NOT something you go to (tactic) anywhere near the first signs of trouble... this is near the very end right?

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DIE TO THE PAST EVERY MOMENT - TWC

Longtime Husband

Semantics perhaps, but no, not really. It was simply that on this issue (which again had been an issue for over 20 years) was something that I was no longer willing to budge on.

I think, if I had made it clear early on that I expect to be given a certain amount of sex (and that I will hold myself to the same standard of meeting HER needs), "OR ELSE"....I would have been much less frustrated for 2 decades. But as it was, I tried to do things the "right way".

I'm a slow learner, I guess. But I get it eventually.

MEM11363

LH,
Good for you. Really. You explained this perfectly. I am sad though when I read stories like yours. You would have gotten the same reaction a long time ago - saving you many years of feeling poorly treated in relation to how you were treating her.

Yes - this behavior represents incrementally leaving the marriage. And if you are a good spouse - your partner gets very anxious when they realize you MEAN it. Notice your wife ignored your "talk" for 20 years, but IMMEDIATELY responded to your ACTION. I truly believe women are wired that way. They are excellent communicators. So when we complain they hear "oh - he is unhappy". Which sadly sometimes they are ok with. But if they see/hear/believe "oh he is actually leaving me" very different reaction.

Longtime Husband

let me put this another way:

I don't know about the mind game & all but you simply SET STANDARDS in your relationship (it's crucial that these standards are a two-way street). You REMAIN CLEAR about these standards. And you STAND YOUR GROUND, regardless of the consequences. This is true of all relationships, organizations and/or institutions.

Then you just let the chips fall where they may.....after all, who could NOT respect this? (hint: anyone who doesn't respect this is not worth keeping around anyway)

63Vino

"Yes - this behavior represents incrementally leaving the marriage. And if you are a good spouse - your partner gets very anxious when they realize you MEAN it. Notice your wife ignored your "talk" for 20 years, but IMMEDIATELY responded to your ACTION. I truly believe women are wired that way. They are excellent communicators. So when we complain they hear "oh - he is unhappy". Which sadly sometimes they are ok with. But if they see/hear/believe "oh he is actually leaving me" very different reaction."

Ok...following all other methods (not 20 years) you incrementally leave the marriage in a last effort to get them to understand what they failed to get through talk, with the understanding that they may pull away further and you leave altogether.

Again, worried about "where" this is applied but I get it.

thanks gents for clarifying.
Every situation is different.

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DIE TO THE PAST EVERY MOMENT - TWC

MarkTwain

This continues to be an interesting thread. I think many of the "tricks" being advocated on this thread can work, but at a price: The other person knows they have been played. They might even eventually thank you for helping them get past certain mental blocks at a later date, but... unless you are blessed with a giving person as a spouse, the magic will wear off.

You can use tried and tested techniques to shift the balance a bit, but you can't change someone very much for very long. For me, the main lesson in this thread is that the OP has low self esteem, and like a mirror, his choice of wife is tirelessly reflecting that to him. If and when his self esteem picks up, he will either find his wife more loving, or -more likely- he will drop her like a hot potato.

It's Prometheus and the rock all over again:

Zeus then punished him for his crime by having him bound to a rock while a great eagle ate his liver every day only to have it grow back to be eaten again the next day.

Unlike Prometheus, we do have the power to walk away.... maybe.

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MT
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