jgn2112fletch

mommy2, that was very good stuff. I think what you are/were going through and what my wife is feeling are very similar. I think my wife abhors affection as much as she does sex. I could be wrong, but a lot of what I've read before suggests reestablishing the emotional aspect before tackling the sexual. I don't think that'll work because she can't stand either. At a minimum, I would just like her to acknowledge that, although she doesn't like it, a good wife would see that sex is important to me and take care of that aspect out of respect for me. I think trying to recover the emotional side first, while understandable, would likely only compound things. I really do think the key is that if I'm put off on a day when basically everyone acknowledges they should be doing something for their spouse to just put it in her face that this shows a complete lack of respect toward me and a lack of sympathy for my needs, when I clearly do everything I can to meet hers. And then blow it off like its nothing...I'm phrasing this wrong, but what I'm getting at is to be more of the alpha male, don't wear my emotions on my sleeve, wave the BS flag and leave it. Not be rude or angry, don't start an argument. Just try to put it on her that she's the one who ruined Valentine's day.
I totally understand about how there is no "us." We can't just hire a babysitter and go out. It's extremely difficult to find soeone we trust to handle our boys. And, in typical mom fashion, she'll go out and do nothing but stress over the boys anyway. So there have been times I've felt date night was a waste.
Like I said, I'm OK with being shelved and abandoned while she devotes everything to our children, as long as she takes care of my sexual needs. If she doesn't do the latter, then I'm divorced already, so to speak, just not on paper. Were two divorced people who are still married. The worst of both worlds.

mommy2

Then I think you're right to be more "alpha" without being rude/angry, etc. Still attentive to your boys and doing your share with them/housework, etc. but nothing extra. What others have suggested. Hopefully that will "shock" her enough to realize what she's denying you and how important it is to get it back. She may honestly not realize how bad it truly is,believe it or not. I now it sounds ridiculous but it can be true. My marriage was in a bad place, again cohabitants for the most part but again, I just accepted it and knew how much he adored our kids and just "assumed" he would always be there and put up with it. Not realizing how truly lonely and lacking affection he was. I learned the hard way, my H found affection elsewhere, with my good friend.

SO, needless to say this horrible form of "SHOCK" therapy did just that - rocked my entire world and made me realize wholeheartedly that I loved my H more than anything and wanted to spend the rest of my life showing him in everyway.

DON'T ever get to that point! But what I am saying is by just doing what others are suggesting, not being so "beta" may be just what she needs to see you mean what you say and are not putting up with it. You have desires and needs and love her and want her to fulfill them. COMMUNICATION is huge. Will she go to counseling with you? I think that would be great also. My H would never go, I asked often but fortunately (or unfortunately I guess) he agreed after his A and that was great for us. We have such a better line of communication now.

I wish you the best. You sound like a great guy, husband and father. I hope you are able to get your wife to understand your feelings and needs. I think it's important to your kids to have both their parents.

jgn2112fletch

I am about 99% sure she would not go to counseling. She has flat out told me before that if the marriage were at the point where we needed counseling, then it might as well be over, which I think is very cowardly. I also find it offensive because, to me, she tried harder to save her past relationships (both of which were with either an abusive manipulating liar/@$$hole, or a user who only used her to have sex with when he wasn't with his real girlfriend) than she would with us. And if she refuses counseling, I'm going to tell her just that. She also said that she feels like she had all her fun before marriage in college, and that she's probably just "sexed out." Again, I was crushed. Gee, thanks...so glad you had all your sex with guys who couldn't care less about you so that you can marry the man who loves you and promptly cut him/me off. It makes me very angry just typing it. Again, that will come up again too when appropriate. But to address your question again, I don't think she will go to counseling...or if she does, I know she won't get anything out of it because she won't commit to it...she'll just be thinking about anything else but what's at hand...the boys, the pregnancy, her mother (who just had a relapse of cancer). Between the pregnancy and her mother, it all just seems very cold-blooded to consider leaving her. But, and I don't say this to sound even more cold-blooded, it's always something. Always. The boys autism, money, pregnancy, her mother...what will it be next?
I think I just need to let this situation develop and as it does, handle it much differently than I've handled everything else with her.
My hat's off to you about staying with your H after he cheated. My wife has said if I cheated she'd be out the door. Again, it angers me because her other major relationships she put up with it left and right and did everything possible to "win them back" -- and yet with me, I feel as though she'd drop me in a minute. Ithink it'll be interesting to see how she handles it when I slowly drop the gauntlet.

turnera

Wrong. You LET her use these things as an EXCUSE to not have sex.

Question: when you do have sex, what do YOU do to ensure that she enjoys it?

turnera

You have been CONDITIONED to believe this. And you're too big of a wimp to question it.

Women who LIKE sex, have sex up until they give birth. May not be intercourse, but there's still sex going on. Hand job, oral, dry humping, there are MANY ways she can help YOU - if she wanted to.

The point is, she has been allowed to remove sex from her life because YOU have not pushed it. Time to take back what should be part of your marriage.

Again, I have to ask, what do YOU do to make HER look forward to sex? My H almost never has sex without wanting to please me first. Even if I approach him, he STILL tries to reciprocate, and I often tell him I don't need it. But he TRIES. My orgasms ALWAYS come first. What are you doing?

turnera

The problem with this? She has just spent 20-30 years focusing on kids, and has aged, matured, changed (as have you). So what happens when the last kid graduates? She turns around, sees you're still in the house, and says 'who are you?'

I am a 2009 empty nester. I am here to tell you that it is horrific, to try to reconnect with a spouse you put on hold to focus on the kids, once the kids are gone. You have NO idea who that other person in the house is, and want to know WHY you want to even BE in the same house with them.

Please don't make that mistake. Once the kids are gone, she will NOT choose you. Except maybe for your money.

MEM11363

JGN,
You are rational and balanced about this. I give you a lot of credit for that because this is such a tense situation. I 100 percent agree that it is really UGLY for her to say:
- That she gave her best sex to guys who didn't love her/care for her like you have
- That she would not attend counseling.

My experience reading these boards is that it is VERY common for the abusive spouse to aggressively refuse counseling. They KNOW what they are doing is wrong and do NOT want an objective 3rd party to call them on their bad behavior.

I totally agree that in a healthy marriage the spouses take care of each others high priority needs. She is blowing you off - because she thinks she CAN. She thinks you will just suck it up. The best way to convince her otherwise is through mostly action with minimal words.

Atholk

Twin autistic kids are the biggest drain on her, also she is in the middle of a rough pregnancy where sex has been medically ruled out as an option as well. Now is just not the time to attempt to start changing the sexual landscape.

To be sure I see the OP doing things wrong and there is something that can be worked on in the future, but in my professional opinion as a Developmental Disabilities Nurse you need to;

1. Contact you States agency for Developmental Disablities for assistance with your autistic boys. There are likely respite options, home health help options or even group home placements possible. Seek help. Also many autistic boys become quite physically aggressive around age 12, so you very much need to get in contact now before you get in over your head and someone is injured.

2. Support her through this pregnancy.

Once those things are in place and resolved, you can work on getting laid more. A big part of being an adult male is following through on the results of sex. Namely the children.

After you are through the current crisis, I'll happily offer advice on how to game your wife. But not until then.

__________________
I do a lot of commenting here and love helping, but much of my best work and most coherent overview of how married men can have the best sex and relationship with their wife is done on my blog at http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/

jgn2112fletch

turnera, I think you have a very deep insight on this, but I don't think this relationship merits that degree of "severity" (for lack of a better word) yet. MEM and Atholk, I think you both are practically right on the money. MEM, you mentioned something I had not quite thought of...it was on the tip of my brain but just not quite there yet. And that is your observation that my wife probably says she won't attend counseling because she knows a 3rd party will "see it my way" and then she'll be defenseless...along with mentioning the fact that she tried harder to save her past relationships, and that she had all her fun/good sex in college with guys who couldn't give a rip about her, and then cut her husband off.
Atholk, I also think you are right...now isn't the best time. But seriously, I'm at my wits end and a lot of me says that I'm not choosing the timing (or any of this) but rather this is a product of her own making. We've been on contact with every agency regarding autism. My wife is a fierce warrior for our boys (we moved to VA specifically for them), so that isn't my concern really...she has that handled. I will support her through the pregnancy. But seriously, when the pregnancy is over and she's medically cleared for sex, I'm almost (figuratively) preparing for the gloves to come off. I simply cannot tolerate it any more. I've been a supportive husband and father. But like I said in an earlier post: when the anticipated pain of leaving my boys is eclipsed by the pain of staying with her, AND when my own mental health and stability are in more jeopardy with her (and the boys) than without her (and without the boys), then I'm gone. I simply do not deserve this. And if those two conditions are met, I cannot be a good father with her...the least worst option is to leave.
Like I said, I'm just going to let it develop the way it would anyway, except I'm planning on handling it very differently...thanks to everyone's advice.
I am also entitled to some free counseling (12 sessions) with my job...I'm going to take those up.
And finally, this is another consideration. I need to look into it with military lawyers, but my understanding is that if you've been married for 10 years or longer, then my wife would get half of my retirement...HALF (unless she gets remarried). F--- that. Later this year will be 9 years, so if I'm right about the retirement thing, I've got about 1 1/2 years. I absolutely will not seek to stiff her on child support/alimony, but seeing as how I will likely get the shaft in court since A) I'm a man; and B) I'm military and short-notice deployable (of which I have pulled many), I'm probably going to have minimal or scattered visitation with my sons. I would want a divorce to be as amicable as possible, but I'm preparing to be very poor if it comes to that...the last thing I want is for her to get HALF of my entire retirement.

Deejo

What are your boy's diagnoses? I can't fathom that she wanted another child if they are classic autism. I'm assuming they are Asperger's or PDDNOS?

My 7 year old is PDDNOS. We had our daughter before he was diagnosed.

I know your story. Lived it myself.

Given that you are on orders for no sex, now is a good time to revoke your doormat status and work on setting some boundaries - starting with yourself. Don't be an over-helper, and don't be a whiner. Women disdain this category of male to the same degree they get the hots for the aloof, selfish, bad-boy.
If you keep waiting for her to acknowledge your good deeds and reward you with affection or sex, you're as good as done.

Change up. You have absolutely nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

jgn2112fletch

deejo, you are echoing my sentments. My sons are PDD. And I've felt kinda liberated knowing I have (in a sense) nothing to lose and everything to gain by, as you say, revoking my doormat status. Like I said earlier, I'm not going to just jump into it...I'm going to let the situation evolve, like I know it will...the argument will come (likely on Valentines day) and when that next one comes, when I'm denied any "help" from her, I will handle it much differently than just getting upset and eventually letting her have the last word before we retire to different parts of the house for the rest of the day.
I'm seriously going to need to think about it though, since I'm going to have to kinda rewire how I think and act when getting into an argument.

turnera

Ask her what she thinks she deserves in a marriage. Then ask her what she thinks you deserve in a marriage. Explain to her that testosterone literally demands that you have a stronger need (not want) for sex and that it is one of the key ingredients for a man in a marriage. Tell her most men simply can't stay in a sexless marriage, it is THAT important. See what she says to that.

Explain to her that you are providing HER needs, and that you expect the same show of love from her. But tell her that you know women have to have their needs met to want to have sex, and, if you're missing something that she's not getting from you so that she would feel loving enough to WANT to please you sexually, you certainly want to hear what it is.

Ctn594

jgn2112fletch

Your story is very similar to my situation. I've wrote a few topics of the situation last year on these forums so I don't want to go into great details about myself. I feel for you because living in this type of relationship is extremely difficult to do. It really takes the joy out life...

My wife is an unaffectionate person, who has flat out told me she would be just fine in life if she didn't have sex again. Hearing this really makes a man feel good. lol. So after months or years of threatening to leave, requesting we go to counseling (which she has declined), looking at message boards and reading relationship books. One book stood out more then the others and here is the link.

Amazon.com: Women's Infidelity: Living In Limbo: What Women Really Mean When They Say "I'm Not Happy" (9780976772606): Michelle Langley: Books

I wish I had the PDF files of both books that were on my computer so I could send them to you for free, but they are long gone with my last hard drive.

By the way if you do decide to read the books it is tough to swallow what the author is trying to get across. It will give you a better understanding of inside the mind of a female and by you "always being there for her" trying your best is not what a woman is attracted to.

My wife did see that I was reading these books and was really annoyed that I wasted money on them. She discounted everything the books were about, but I never would suspect her to be so upfront about our situation anyway.

Overall I have changed my approach with my wife. Before I always talked about always being together forever and being there for her when ever needed. Things you would "Think" woman or your wife would appreciate. To sum it up now I'm much more distant. Am I happy, not really, but not has miserable as before. Has my wife turned around a litle bit, yes she has. Maybe she feels that I'm not always going to be there for her so it maybe is a challenge for so she becomes more interested...

jgn2112fletch

There have been a few books I've been looking into reading...and when I do, I don't plan on hiding it...I'll have to put that one on the list of ones to look into.