Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
I'll try to keep this short. I'll probably fail. I've read several other posts on here of men in a situation similar to mine, but I wanted to add my thread for the particulars.
I'm almost 37, been married for 9 years, have two 7-yr old twin boys, both of whom are autistic. We have a third on the way due in July.
When we met and dated, we had amazing and passionate sex every moment we were together (long-distance relationship). I'm in the military, so after we got married and she moved in with me across the country, naturally she got stressed. We were still sex hungry though, but she got a MASSIVE yeast infection and the only cure to keep from passing it to the other was to stop having sex. So we did...and from that point on, she was totally disinterested in sex with me...until she wanted children of course. The lack of sex and emotional disconnect got bad fast, but it steadiy got even worse over the next 9 years.
I am a very loving husband and do all I can to take stress away from her...clean up things, get errands taken care of, etc. Everyhting she asks me to do, I do to the best of my ability. But she takes it all for granted. I feel totally unappreciated. To boot, like I mentioned, our first pregnancy was twins. That obviously made the sex less frequent than it already was. Then they were diagnosed with autism. I feel at this point I was utterly abandoned. I understand the kids come first, but I'm not even a factor in her equation. I'm just a paycheck and someone to take out the trash, fix things, etc. I am very warm and loving and I feel I go to great lengths to tell her I love her, to make her feel loved, to compliment her and support her. But she's even said she's just not affectionate...the total opposite of when we dated.
Then she wanted another child. Foolishly, I agreed. The sex ramped up a bit, but we still didn't even have that much sex...2-3 times a month (considering we were trying to have a baby!). Then, after she got prego (it took about a year) I feel more abandoned than ever.
A curse has now possibly become a blessing in disguise. She's having slight complications in the pregnancy...doctors orders are no sex. So it is likely that there will be no sex until well after the baby is born. With the exception of Valentines day, my Bday, and fathers day, I'm not ever even going to ask for anything remotely related to sex (seeing as there's other things she can do to take care of me). And then, when it's OK to have sex, if I get more of the same that I've been dealing with, I'll give her an ultimatum...
"I've been the only one working on this marriage. You know how miserable I am with the total lack of sex and affection. If you're not willing to devote the same kind of energy and effort as I am to each other, this marriage is doomed to fail."
There is so much more I could say, but I don't want to write a novel...I'll expand more as the discussion gets rolling.
Please help...I have seriously thought, if the kids did not exist, I would have left her long ago. As it is, I feel like she has already left me. We're not a husband and wife, we're two friends with the same children who are cohabitating...nothing more. I am totally unappreciated and taken for granted. She's a bickering nag and seems continually unhappy...and not especially willing to talk and is adamantly against therapy. Sometimes she gets angry with me for going out of the way to help because I do it wrong. So I get bickered at if I don't help, but bickered at if I do. The similarities between my marriage and the movie American Beauty are scary remarkable.
How can I use this period of no sex to prepare myself and this marriage to either take a turn for the better or basically end it?
I know it sounds cold to end a marriage with two children with a disability and a newborn, but I have thought about this so much it's crazy. If:
1. the pain of leaving my boys becomes eclipsed by the pain of staying with my wife; and...
2. my mental health deteriorates faster and is in greater jeopardy with her than without her and the boys...
then I think the lesser of two evils is divorce.
I find myself depressed and angry when I'm normally happy and sometimes I'm very short with my kids and I find myself smouldering. I would NEVER be abusive...I'm a very loving person. I'm just angry, frustrated, and depressed. I feel totally rejected by the one who is supposed to "have and hold" until death do us part. I need help...all of this isn't the half of it.
I love her so much, but she acts like she honestly couldn't care less. More or less, I just get in the way. I'm not her husband any more...I'm an employee. Just another accessory to her life.
Last edited by jgn2112fletch; 02-05-2010 at 06:47 PM.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
OK...screw it. I'll post something again. The following are a bunch of my feelings I wrote down over the period of a week or so before meeting with a Chaplain to help. One thing he did say was to drop any anger or resentment I had toward her prior boyfriends, that it does nothing healthy. I've been able to do that no problem. Anyway, hopefully this will give you a greater insight as to how I feel...
Points on the state of my marriage.
First, the bad.
1. I feel that in the beginning we were madly in love and now you're mostly neutral and simply tolerate me.
2. Before we were married, you presented yourself as emotionally warm and affectionate, embracing loving physical contact, hugging, holding. Now you seem unemotional, cold, and as though we're simply two friends cohabitating...nothing more. Yes, you are happy from time to time. But not like we used to be. I don't expect two people in love to be high on that love all the time. But it just seems like I am never the source of that happiness.
3. I got one small taste of who you were when we first met the day I came home from VA Beach and, as I told you, it completely changed me...I was given a new lease on life (and our marriage) it seemed. I immediately tripled my efforts to take stress out of your life...picking up toys, cleaning dishes, puting clean ones away, anything that needed to be done, I did it immediately and without being asked. And I never did any of it to get something. But at the same time, there has to be equal exchange in marriage. And although I've "slowed down" a bit since I got that second wind, I didn't see any change or appreciation from you.
4. I feel hurt to the point of being emotionally crushed that you had all the sexual fun in high school and college with the two most hurtful, unappreciative, and manipulative men in your life. And yet for me, your husband, the father of your children, the one man who has shown you more unconditional love, support, and respect than anyone, I get no emotional or sexual reciprocation...or what I get sexually is so obviously under protest that it's almost worse to have gotten it.
5. I am in complete agonizing jealousy of Jason and Jon. They got to have the part of you that, as your husband and the man who has consistently shown you more love and support than anyone else, I was supposed to have. I find myself bitter with rage toward them. And it hurts that it only seems to irritate you, not concern you or generate sympathy that your husband is crying out to you for emotional and physical correspondence that just isn't there anymore.
6. I almost boil over with rage when I think of all the formals that you went to with Jason and Jon...how you were all dressed up as best as you could be looking as beautiful as possible...and how they got to dance with you, hold you, and have sex with you; yet you wouldn't even let me make love to you on our wedding day. I resent you for that.
7. I feel that you worked harder on your relationships with Jon and Jason than you do with our marriage. How many times did Jon physically abuse you? How much mental abuse did you endure? How many times did he cheat on you? And you took him back. Contrary to what you believe, Jason did not care about you at all. You were someone he used to make himself feel more powerful...and more to the point, someone he could have sex with when he wasn't with his real girlfriend in Pittsburgh. And when you found out, after you threw the phone, you eventually took him back. And where did it get you? "I gave him my heart and he gave me a flier." You even stood me up on the day we were supposed to meet because (among other very legitimate and understandable things that made it a bad time in your life), you were hoping to patch things up with him. I don't fault you for that, but I'm just illustrating that I feel like you'd drop me without a second thought if I committed any infraction not half as severe as what Jason and Jon did to you.
8. It disturbs me in a way I cannot describe that you said if our marriage ever came to that, that you wouldn't even bother trying counseling.
9. I feel that I am the only one who is working on this marriage.
10. I feel like I have been abandoned for the boys. You are an absolutely incredible mother. But you are so wholly devoted to the boys that you've left me completely behind; and any attempt by me to call attention to that fact is seemingly met with indifference, or anger...but mostly irritation. What concern you show appears to be more a mixture of concern and annoyance.
11. I feel like I'm in a no-win situation; if I try and help I get scorned for doing it wrong. If I don't, I eventually get scorned for not helping.
12. I realize that there are a great many things in life right now that have you down, depressed, and constantly feeling behind the 8-ball. I have tried, and continue to try to understand just so that I can be supportive and help when necessary...even though I feel sometimes you don't want any. Nevertheless, I continue to try and understand so that, instead of anger, I can feel more compassion. Sometimes I fail and fall well short, but I try. I don't feel you do the same for me.
13. I feel that without a healthy marriage in place, the boys' uphill battle will only be made worse. There are two ways to help the boys...see to their developmental needs and see to their familial needs. Obviously you are doing everything and then some to see to their developmental needs. You show them love and affection, as do I. But you show little, if any affection or appreciation toward me. It has affected how I feel about you and this marriage. And we cannot help the boys as effectively if our marriage is in ruin or outright fails. The best way to ensure the best for our boys over the long haul is to ensure that they grow up in a home with a happy and successful marriage. Right now, I consider our marriage to be very little of either.
14. I feel like all your happiness in life stems from the boys, whereas all your frustration or anger stems from me.
15. I feel like whenever I voice my emotional or sexual concerns, what I get in return isn't sympathy or concern, but irritation or anger.
16. I feel we won't see our 20th wedding anniversary if the marriage continues like this. I don't even feel this is a marriage, really. As I said, I feel we are two people who most of the time are simply friends cohabitating more than anything. I have emotional and physical needs for a marriage. I think that alone annoys you and I feel as though you resent me because of it. Regardless, those needs were met completely when we dated and were engaged and even for a short period while we were married. Essentially, since we moved into our house in NE, those needs have slowly and steadily been shelved for one reason or another, until now they are just an annoying byproduct or chore.
17. I feel any of your wants, especially those that I can provide "free of charge," such as support, encouragement, etc., as well as almost any want that comes with a cost (things or activities) are met, almost always very eagerly by me. But the only real need that I have...the need for emotional, physical, and sexual exchange...the byproduct of any healthy marriage and which costs you/us only a few moments of time, are adamantly, and often angrily denied. The only reason I've received is, "because."
18. I understand you have no desire for sex. If I could do anything to reverse that or lift your spirits, I would in a nanosecond. But it leaves me in agony that, knowing how important it is for me, and how deeply I desire it, that you still refuse to take care of my sexual needs in any way or form. If there were something I could do so that you would enjoy it, want it, or even look forward to it, I would do it. If you had any desire or need that I could provide, regardless of how much it disgusted me or how much I disliked it, it would still be a no-brainer. I would do it out of love and of respect to your needs. The fact that you do not feel the same (or maybe you are but not enough to make you willing to act) leaves me nothing short of tortured.
19. I feel like, to an extent, you used me to get pregnant. You were nicer, more pleasant, and of course, we had sex almost weekly. Then you got pregnant and your change in attitude toward me was immediate. It was as though you simply said, "OK, I got what I wanted out of you," and placed me back on employee status. I don't think any of this was intentional necessarily, but I do feel it to be true.
20. As long as I live, it will burn me beyond my ability to describe that you said to me, "I want you to have sex with me every other day until I'm pregnant," and the same day or the day after, you found out you were pregnant. And then your attitude was back to business as usual. I realize that it was not long after that we had the scare and you were apprehensive about sex, while at the same time your pregnancy nausea kicked in. That is well beyond your control. But it is just like my life that you grant me the opportunity of a lifetime to have sex and then just as quickly it turns out to be unnecessary and I come up short. You'll never know how much that torments me. I feel completely and utterly ripped off out of the need I've been trying to communicate to you for the last 8 years.
21. I feel you are not the person I married. I completely agree, nor do I hide the fact that I have changed since we've been married. People change as they grow. But at my core, I'm the same man you drank beer and smoked cigarettes with at Scully's on our first date. At my core, I'm the same man that proposed to you before Oscar night when you came to visit me in NE. But I'm not sure that, at your core, you are the same person I drank beer and smoked cigarettes with on our first date. And I'm not sure that, at your core, you are the same person I proposed to before Oscar night when you came to visit me in NE. I am madly in love with the woman I proposed to. If you truly are that person, then this marriage has a chance. If who I proposed to was an unintentional inaccurate representation of your true self, and the current "you" really is, then I think it is only a matter of time before this marriage disintegrates and fails.
22. Almost without exception, when I'm acting "crotchety" it's because I've been pondering one, some, or all of these thoughts. My highly irritable sense of frustration and anger was made so by everything I've mentioned so far. These points are the sole source of my anger in life.
23. Some days are better than others. Some days I feel fine and I'm in a playful mood and things are good. Other days I simply just sit and stew in my anger. Everything that I'm noting in here is the reason why. While it might seem obvious, I think it's important to say that I like it much better when I'm happy and we both appear playful.
24. While I'm compiling these thoughts to vent and put my feelings, which are often chaotic, into some coherent form, I'm extremely afraid of what you would do if you read this. I honestly don't know if you'd read it, realize that I'm trying to help and begin to repair this marriage through honesty and openness, or if you would become angry enough to formulate a counter-response and then leave.
25. I honestly don't know if you realize it's this bad with me. And sometimes I wonder if I'm over-reacting or am in the wrong for some of my anger and feeling of inadequacy, jealousy, and sorrow or if I'm totally justified.
26. I feel like often times I do little right and only serve to get in the way. I've jokingly, and sadly, thought that I would be the perfect husband to you if I got a frontal lobotamy and just became a drone with no real input and no sexual or emotional needs.
27. You are very critical and rarely complimentary.
Saving the best for last. I want to focus mostly on just you and I...not the boys or how incredible of a mother you are (which could easily be a whole other document) or anything else.
1. First off, I love you so much that there is no way to put it into words. I'm not even going to elaborate.
2. There is no one thing in this world that brightens my day the way you do when you're happy and affectionate toward me.
3. Physically, you are absolutely beautiful. I know you don't feel that way about yourself. But it's true...if I could change any physical attribute about you to make you more appealing or attractive, I seriously would do nothing...not one single thing. You are absolutely beautiful.
4. I have never experienced a more thrilling sense of fun than when you and I are both enjoying each others company doing something exciting. Whether it's the trip to Key West, our honeymoon, or pretty much anything we did when we were dating and engaged and before "life" started to take over our marriage, there is no rush like the one I get when you and I are just having a ball together.
5. You are a smart and headstrong woman who I can always count on to keep me grounded and provide a sanity check on any of my dreams, hopes, aspirations, or just in everyday life. I am so hopeful that I can share with you fully in the fulfillment of all my dreams and all your dreams as well. It may not be easy getting there, but the only thing better than the fulfillment of any of my dreams is to have you there with me when they're achieved.
6. Nothing or no one in this world turns me on like you do...emotionally or physically. Not much else I can say on this one. You just completely excite me unlike anything else.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
You covered a lot and my situation is a lot like yours. One thing: You said if it's not Valentine's day, your birthday, Father's Day etc. you won't ask for anything sexual... but does your wife take care of your sexual needs apart from intercourse? Or is she completely shut down?
It sounds like it's getting to a boiling point. Can you talk about this with her without blowing up? If the doctor says she can't have sex, maybe she'll be willing to do other things for you. Or see a counselor to suggest what can keep your marriage together, as clearly your wife is not the only one under stress here.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
No...she basically adamantly refuses any and all sexual (or even emotional) reciprocation. She sometimes says she feels bad, but literally does nothing about it. Sometimes I feel like she might as well say, "sorry...sucks to be you." I could totally get by if she took care of my sexual needs. But she isn't emotional toward me, let alone sexual in any way.
We've argued countless times, but I don't see the point in it any more. She's never going to see my side...nor do I think she wants to. When we argue, she doesn't listen to me...she hears my words, formulates a counter response to alleviate herself of any blame or responsibility. And I am a HORRIBLE debater. I freeze up and am unable to respond until about a day later or so when I think of the ultimate response. Of course, it's over with by then and we're back to being "normal."
Sometimes I think I'm at fault because I bury it and so easily go back to appearing happy. I have to I think because I want my boys in a happy environment in the house. My wife and I just NEVER have time alone...and we can't just get a sitter because the kids are autistic. Ever way you look at it, it's just tough.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
STOP doing all this loving stuff you refer to. Seriously - don't be hostile - just stop saying/doing/giving love. Be polite and friendly and start focusing on other stuff. When she asks you to do things - just say - sorry I don't have time to do that.
The REAL issue here is that your response to her treating you badly has been to be even nicer to her. Worst possible thing you can do in this situation. It simply REINFORCES her behavior. She thinks - great - the less sex I give him - the more he runs around trying to please me.
And you tolerated trying to get pregnant with number 3 - even though she was barely having enough sex to GET pregnant. WHY would you do that? When she asked for number 3, why didn't you demand that your sex life be fixed FIRST and for a while before shooting for another kid?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2112fletch
No...she basically adamantly refuses any and all sexual (or even emotional) reciprocation. She sometimes says she feels bad, but literally does nothing about it. Sometimes I feel like she might as well say, "sorry...sucks to be you." I could totally get by if she took care of my sexual needs. But she isn't emotional toward me, let alone sexual in any way.
We've argued countless times, but I don't see the point in it any more. She's never going to see my side...nor do I think she wants to. When we argue, she doesn't listen to me...she hears my words, formulates a counter response to alleviate herself of any blame or responsibility. And I am a HORRIBLE debater. I freeze up and am unable to respond until about a day later or so when I think of the ultimate response. Of course, it's over with by then and we're back to being "normal."
Sometimes I think I'm at fault because I bury it and so easily go back to appearing happy. I have to I think because I want my boys in a happy environment in the house. My wife and I just NEVER have time alone...and we can't just get a sitter because the kids are autistic. Ever way you look at it, it's just tough.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
My first guess is that you're being TOO nice. Women need their men to be strong, loving, but not TOO giving. It makes them lose respect for the man. Keep it even and fair. Just because she has kids to take care of doesn't mean you have to pick up all the slack.
This requires sitting down and talking. Tell her everything you're feeling. Including this:
Quote:
I have seriously thought, if the kids did not exist, I would have left her long ago.
You need to be brave and tell her the truth. That if things don't change, and if she doesn't start including having sex in her life, that she will end up alone. And raising 3 kids by herself, because you will be living somewhere else. Tell her you need a better balance of SOME attention on you and not 100% on the kids, and tell her that you will NOT remain in a sexless marriage. Offer to change up the sex to be what she likes, but it HAS to be part of the marriage. Don't let her weasel out. Be fair but loving.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
I cannot imagine the stress that twin autistic children would bring to a relationship. I think this is the biggest issue here. You need to seek help from whatever the Developmental Disablities agency is in your State.
Also it does appear that you have some serious lack in the Alpha Male trait department, and are expectting that being purely Beta is going to get you the sexual response you want. It simply won't.
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Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
MEM and turnera, thank you for your replies. I agree completely that I have to stop being everything to my wife. I guess I'd thought of that before but for some reason it didn't stick...that if I do everything she asks what incentive does she even have to do anything for me or improve herself as a wife?
I also agree that the truth needs to come out. I also think I need to be less available. I've stated that I wanted to go shoot pool with a friend each Wed...I'm going to do that. I have also started working out each weekday at the gym...I may start doing that after work instead of before so that I'm not around as much.
I think that while she is pregnant I need to slowly start being a little more distant, less available, while still being supportive. And after the baby comes and the doctor medically approves sex, if things don't change...if we don't start having regular sex or if she still refuses to acknowledge my needs, then I'm going to have the full out honest revelation of my feelings.
I've thought more than once that my lack of being an alpha male has been hurting this the whole time. I just love her so much it is tough to be hard on her so to speak, which is often what being an alpha male is about. But then again, I need to stand up for myself.
The scary/messed up thing is, I sometimes feel like she will give up on this marriage than on her past relationships. I think that's almost liberating now that I think about it...cuz if it's the case, I'll be leaving.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
JGN,
MOST important thing if you want respect. STOP talking and start doing. So pool - great. Working out at the gym - even better. Be friendly and polite. You can't have sex right now - no problem. The female mate of an alpha would be giving him some sort of relief now - hand jobs - oral. So when your wife starts to complain about you not being home - in a friendly but firm voice let her know that "no intercourse" is fine, but her lack of doing anything for you sexually is unacceptable.
And JGN - if you want her to take you seriously say it like that. USE AS FEW WORDS AS POSSIBLE. Betas talk and talk and talk. They want people to understand WHY they are doing something, why they feel a certain way. An alpha has no need to explain anything other then what he wants. He is fine saying in one or two sentences what he needs. And then he doesn't whine about it or talk about it at ALL if the other person doesn't do what he asked. He TAKES ACTION. In your case that action is to be less available and less loving - while NOT being cranky or angry or rude. If she asks you why you are not helping after you have told her about the sex - just smile and say - "no sex - no cooperation." And do not talk about it further then that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2112fletch
MEM and turnera, thank you for your replies. I agree completely that I have to stop being everything to my wife. I guess I'd thought of that before but for some reason it didn't stick...that if I do everything she asks what incentive does she even have to do anything for me or improve herself as a wife?
I also agree that the truth needs to come out. I also think I need to be less available. I've stated that I wanted to go shoot pool with a friend each Wed...I'm going to do that. I have also started working out each weekday at the gym...I may start doing that after work instead of before so that I'm not around as much.
I think that while she is pregnant I need to slowly start being a little more distant, less available, while still being supportive. And after the baby comes and the doctor medically approves sex, if things don't change...if we don't start having regular sex or if she still refuses to acknowledge my needs, then I'm going to have the full out honest revelation of my feelings.
I've thought more than once that my lack of being an alpha male has been hurting this the whole time. I just love her so much it is tough to be hard on her so to speak, which is often what being an alpha male is about. But then again, I need to stand up for myself.
The scary/messed up thing is, I sometimes feel like she will give up on this marriage than on her past relationships. I think that's almost liberating now that I think about it...cuz if it's the case, I'll be leaving.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
MEM...I really appreciate your words of advice. I know you post on here regularly and have a lot of insight. My wife knows how serious I am about working out. I feel better about myself too. We'll see how Valentines day goes. I have the feeling it's going to be something like this:
She's going to give me a card with a nice Valentines-ish thing and she writes, "I love you" and that's it. I give her a gift which I already got and she modestly says thanks. Because we have no time alone...ever, I'm going to take part of Monday off so we can be alone (or I'm going to suggest this to her). She is going to not like the idea or discourage it. And if I DO do it and she doesn't take care of me, then my attitude will then shift to where you've mentioned: I've been a very attentive and devoted husband to her...since she obviously doesn't feel the same obligation toward me, then it's time for me to take care of myself. Etc, etc.
I think just because we can't have sex doesn't mean she can't be sexual with me (not that she ever has before since we got married). So there's still no excuse for her to not take care of my needs. I understand shes stressed. I understand she's off her antidepressants. Her mom recently had a relapse of cancer...but bad things in life should not equate to, "Ok...*insert bad event* happened, so I'll stop concerning with my husband and the guy who has supported and loved me more than any other man except my father." It doesn't work like that. I just HATE to see her upset, so I just have to hunker down and stand up for myself for a change. It's always something in our life that provides an external negative force that doesn't make it cut and dry.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
JGN,
This is my view of it. Women who don't like sex ALWAYS try to make it someone else's fault. Someone died, the kids are stressful, their husband wasn't perfect for the last 3 months. Unless you force the issue she is never going to stop blamestorming and you are never going to have a sex life.
Let me give you the other end of the spectrum. I got home Monday night around 8 pm from a 2 week consulting trip. My wife has:
- A pelvic inflammation that is quite uncomfortable so intercourse is completely out of the question
- Some sadness about our oldest child - real sadness about some ugly recent stuff that I am also upset about
And yet - Monday, Tuesday and last night she rocked my world in the way that most men love. And each night I told her I would be fine if we did not connect. And each night she said "you were away for 2 weeks - no sex - no touch - let me make up for lost time".
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2112fletch
MEM...I really appreciate your words of advice. I know you post on here regularly and have a lot of insight. My wife knows how serious I am about working out. I feel better about myself too. We'll see how Valentines day goes. I have the feeling it's going to be something like this:
She's going to give me a card with a nice Valentines-ish thing and she writes, "I love you" and that's it. I give her a gift which I already got and she modestly says thanks. Because we have no time alone...ever, I'm going to take part of Monday off so we can be alone (or I'm going to suggest this to her). She is going to not like the idea or discourage it. And if I DO do it and she doesn't take care of me, then my attitude will then shift to where you've mentioned: I've been a very attentive and devoted husband to her...since she obviously doesn't feel the same obligation toward me, then it's time for me to take care of myself. Etc, etc.
I think just because we can't have sex doesn't mean she can't be sexual with me (not that she ever has before since we got married). So there's still no excuse for her to not take care of my needs. I understand shes stressed. I understand she's off her antidepressants. Her mom recently had a relapse of cancer...but bad things in life should not equate to, "Ok...*insert bad event* happened, so I'll stop concerning with my husband and the guy who has supported and loved me more than any other man except my father." It doesn't work like that. I just HATE to see her upset, so I just have to hunker down and stand up for myself for a change. It's always something in our life that provides an external negative force that doesn't make it cut and dry.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
The only thing that gives me pause is that maybe I should just tread water until after the baby is born and she is medically cleared to have sex...simply because I don't know if allowing the marriage to disintegrate (even if it's bound to do so anyway) while she is pregnant is the best thing. The timing on this is horrible.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
That makes sense. I do think if you start the process of making her a lower priority NOW - and set some expectations NOW - you are giving her more time to decide what she wants.
I also think you need to ask her to think about whether she is willing to be honest with you about her lack of desire for you. And that means not making up excuses for why day to day life leaves her with no desire. It really truly sounds like she does not respect you - which is why she does not respect your needs. And THAT is a monster you have created over the years so you need to be assertive for a while and see what happens.
It seems like you feel overpowered by her - and would rather walk away then try to re-establish a power balance in your marriage. And I only say that because you are avoiding conflict with her now. It seems like at some very basic level she HAS emotionally overpowered you. Not good, but fixable if you are determined.
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Originally Posted by jgn2112fletch
The only thing that gives me pause is that maybe I should just tread water until after the baby is born and she is medically cleared to have sex...simply because I don't know if allowing the marriage to disintegrate (even if it's bound to do so anyway) while she is pregnant is the best thing. The timing on this is horrible.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
Well, I do think if I make her a lower priority and start putting myself first for a change, but still be respectful (e.g. not mean or ambivalent, just...realistic I guess), then hopefully over time she may begin to see that she's pushed me away. So when I break it to her that I need her to change and take care of me or it's over it won't come as such a shock. She can at least say to herself, "I think I saw this coming." Two things:
1. I can live with her abandoning me for our children. Seriously, I can. I just need her to take care of my sexual needs. Sound petty? Than you've misunderstood me. I can get through being shelved until our children grow up or grow older as long as she takes care of my sexual needs during that time
2. If we do divorce, I want it to be very amicable...no hostility. I think she would want that too...so I don't want to go out in a blaze of glory...I'd rather it be almost matter of fact. I think I can achieve this if I just begin to focus on myself and my well being for a change rather than going on doing everything she asks and then one day telling her that I'm stopping all that unless she takes care of me sexually and changes or it's over.
Re: Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her
First off, I believe you are getting some great advice here and I agree with you that you do need to tread easily while she's pregnant. Also, have children is tough, twins much tougher, autistic twins - incredibly stressful. So, right there is alot of stress and responsibility for both of you.
So, as a mom I can totally relate with being completely wrapped up in my kids and ignoring my H. Been there, done that. WHY? Because those kids are my everything. We tried 4 yrs to get my daughter and went through fertility h*ll and then she was born with a birth defect. She had lots of doctor visits, lots of uncertainity, hosptial stays, etc. SO lots of stress on a couple. She took priority. (BTW - she still has a condition but she's fine, smart, beautiful..) Then I didn't want her to be an only child and FOR ME my H agreed to fertility for #2. Miscarried and then had my son. Who ended up having colic (my H's fear for having a 2nd) So the story goes. We are both devoted to our children and love them dearly. However, he missed me, the fun/happy me before kids, not the stressed out, resentful me that I became. He wanted sex/affection I wanted him to quit "groping" me - I was busy, had things to do, etc. FIght, fight, fight. Our biggest mistake - is there wasn't an US. We never went on dates, my goodness we took our kids on our anniversary dinner!
SO, as you suggest that you are going to take time to spend with just her on Valentine's day. Will she not like it because she feels "guility" that she won't be devoting time to her kids? Do you think she harbors any guilt for your sons' condition? A mother's guilt can be very strong, even when it's not at all justified, and can envelope her. I just know that while by H and I were just "cohabitating" - I did miss having a marriage and affection, I did. But I was OKAY with it for my kids. As long as they were happy, that's all that mattered to me. My happiness didn't matter. I know that is wrong and I have moved past that and see the importance of my happiness as well as theirs. But what I am asking is do you think that's where she is at? She is probably exhausted with only so much energy and with the choice of giving it to her kids or to you, sorry she chooses them.
Others are right. When you are so devoted and loving and nice, she does take that for granted and why would she change? Again, as suggested I wouldn't be rude or angry or not help at all but start doing less so that she can see what it is like and how fortunate she is. Again, you need to be careful this next few months while she is pregnant.
The other thing is I would ask for affection before sex or sexual needs. (since she can't have sex) When it got to that point, I then got mad and pushed away farther when I thought he just wanted me for sex. Not understanding that sex to a man in not just that but how he shows affection to his wife and love. So, maybe ask for cuddling and hand holding and kissing, etc. Just a suggestion.