mommy2

I have been following your posts so I know your situation. As someone else posted - you want your marriage to work/improve so you need to change your approach. You need to find out her needs and what's going on with her. I get that you are sexually deprived and frustrated and that's not fair. Trust me, been there, I know all too well what happens when you let the sexual part of your relationship die......learned my lesson. So I want to give you the opposite point of view to try to help.

First of all, no matter how "right" you are, complaining that you're not getting sex............WILL NEVER GET YOU SEX! Will only p*ss her off, which in turn will p*ss you off, etc. Vicious cycle. You need to focus on restoring your emotional connection with your wife which will then lead to sex. I think marriage counseling is a great idea, you are willing but you say she is not. Perhaps tell her how important she is, your boys are, your baby is and you want to have the happiness that you all deserve. Tell her you want to do it for THEM! (Play the kid card, may not be right but thinking that may work in your case)

She doesn't sound like a bad person and I don't think she's trying to deny you and hurt you intentionally. Yes, it's sounds like she has taken you for granted, I get that. (again, been there) but I don't think she's truly understanding that by doing so she could lose you. (I didn't) I think there is some underlying guilt or resentment there that she may not even realize. So, by you throwing in her face that you aren't having sex, that's just not helping. How about begging her to cuddle with you? Hold hands, make out? I am sure she is exhausted with your boys and being pregnant. I am not making excuses for her, I am just saying what goes through a mommy's mind. She is so focused on your kids and being a good mom, she has forgot she also has to be a good wife. (again, been there) It's hard, you don't realize you can be both. I am madly in love with my H again, honestly never thought I could feel this way again, ever. AND I am still a good mommy. But you could have beat me over the head with a stick a year ago and told me this and I would have thought you were crazy.

mujer_rota

This post has really helped me understand some things.. but what do you do if your H gets frustrated from less sex than he wishes he had with his wife. He doesn't meet his W's needs regularly. He treats her as if his sexual needs aren't met NONE of hers are. And that she deserves to be miserable if his sexual needs aren't met. That makes her want to not please his selfish A$$ at all.

It's hard for me to give even just a tiny bit when he doesn't at all. He tries to tell me that if i will just want to be more sexually active he will be more receptive of me asking him to do things around the house. Once in a blue moon he has done some form of 'housework' without being asked. But is half-a$$ed. He will tidy the livingroom. motly just pick up and throw it into whatever room it belongs in. Laundry is never touched nor are the dishes.. oh and it has to pile up before he will FINALLY take out the trash. Sometimes I'll get tired of looking at it and just take it out my damn self. even if it takes 3 or more trips to the dumpster. It is exhausting...

turnera

mujer, your situation seems to be one of boundaries and communication. He KNOWS you will go ahead and do everything, so why bother? And he knows you're unhappy, but as long as he doesn't have to do anything, he doesn't care. If you could rephrase this into a what-if situation, let him see what a better solution would look like - if you met his needs, he met yours, things get better, not worse...but you have to be willing to let him know you won't continue on this path. How about this: tell him that, instead of if you would do SF, he would clean, say 'If you would clean, I would do SF. SHOW me that you will own up to household responsibilities, and it will fill my love bank for you, and I will WANT to have more SF with you; that's what women NEED in order to compensate for your higher drive.' But also let him know that you don't NEED the SF like he does, and you are ALREADY doing 99% of the household responsibilities, so it doesn't matter to you at this point if he's not participating because HE is the one missing out on SF, not you. So, you could just eliminate it and keep going on as before; HE is the one who won't get what he needs. So, it's his choice whether he wants to change his attitude. And, oh, by the way, if you both work, you BOTH have responsibilities at home.

If he still balks, you can do what I did. Stop doing his laundry. Stop buying the foods he likes. Stop shopping for his new clothes. If you have to pick up his trash, dump it where he keeps his keys and phone and etc., so that he has to deal with it, not you. Don't stop the stuff that hurts the rest of the family, just his stuff; make him realize - by omission - what all he's getting from you already.

It may start a war, but you may have to, to make your point. The book The Dance of Anger has a lot of good ideas for this subject.

turnera

mommy2 made me think of something, talking about cuddling. Many women simply want to cuddle. WITHOUT the fear that it will lead to SF. I remember point blank asking my H, early on, if we could just spend SOME of our time cuddling without him having to have SF as well. He said 'Sure!" (we were still dating). Didn't happen. So what did I do? I stopped sitting next to him. I pulled away in the kitchen when he hugged me, so he couldn't grab something. I did what I had to, to control the situation.

So I'll ask you: do you spend time cuddling when you aren't looking for more? IMO that's a number one way to get her to relax and trust you, and want to become more intimate - knowing that every time she is physically close to you, you won't start groping.

mommy2

Tunera - EXACTLY! I think, at this point, you need to make your wife feel you just want to be close to her. So, if it's just cuddling, then it's cuddling. (take the sex expectation off the table for a bit.) Some woman do get to the point when they take your signs of affection as groping! (cuz sometimes that's what they are!) I mean, if you haven't been intimate for a long time, lots and lots of hugs and kisses are welcomed - walking up and grabbing my a** or boobs....NOT!! Again, I think she's in that Mommy mode - everyone is WANTING something from her, she will give in to the kids whining and give the kids whatever, but you whining about sex, yes, sorry as cruel as it sounds, she could give a rat's a** about that right now.

toolate

Tunera and Mommy2 are onto something great. She is the low libido and has the balls by the horns, all lower libido spouses do bc they arent the ones needing or wanting anything. So, the only way to affect positive change is by changing how you approach your spouse. Its what I am doing. Im not happy about it at all, but my children LOVE myhusband and I know I have to make this work, and I love my husband but know that he will never satisfy my needs... (I think the revelation of more sex than I could handle was a load of BS, still havent seen it). AND trying the same old routine is, like the OP stated, insane... bc it only leads to yelling, resentment and hurt. I had to numb myself and ask God for help to not want to have sex, so that I could get into bed and sleep next to my husband knowing we werent going to have sex. It was the only way, bc otherwise I want to go down the hall to the guest room, or sit outside and smoke (cig not the illegal stuff) all night long bc I cant sleep from the angst. I even have thoughts of hitting him with a pillow when he turns over and puts his mouthpiece in without so much as saying goodnight... no kiss or anything. He would cry abuse if I did that, its just who he is.

I literally had to get myself to the point where I dont expect anything from him other than mortgage payments. Sometimes I look at him and loathe him and sometimes I look and think hes a nice guy just not right for me... but he is selfish, that is just part of who he is and I know that now. Many times I look at him and think he is hot, because he is, and then that frustrates me bc I cant have him when I want.

We cant change them, but we can change how we respond and act around them.

That being said... she is pregnant and there is a dynamic here unique to pregnancy...

She wants to be given to now, but doesnt remember how to receive maybe because of all the demands on her. Being a mom of young ones is so draining and she is pregnant on top of that... pregnant women yearn to be pampered and taken care of, not be asked to do anything for anyone else. I know that is selfish, but if she is selfish as a person (not cutting on her, its just a personality trait of those who wont do what their spouse feels is important) pregnancy will make her more so... Its a time when she beleives you should be bending over backwards for her because she is gross and tired, and gassy and whatever else she may be feeling, so you two can have another child that is uniquely yours. She is sitting over there thinking you are selfish for asking her to give you a bj... I know it hurts to hear that as you do not feel like you are asking for much... but that is how pregnant women can feel and having been pregnant myself... it is rightly earned... pregnancy is one of the most thrilling and agonizingly horrible months of your life... we want to know you appreciate what we are doing for you,we want to know we are still attractive to you, that you love us even if we cant give. SOme women breeze through pregnancies... most do not. Most dont feel like themselves again for months or years whenever they can get out of the haze of baby days.

Now is not the time to demand sex... or ask. It is time to look within or to God to find strength to get through it somehow as requests only lead to more angst for you and her. Come to think of it, Im about to head upstairs and take care of myself... I try to do it when husband is at work so he doesnt know... if he finds out he thinks we dont need sex because I already had my O... faulty logic! SO masturbate in private, dont let her know and then breathe and stop asking and hold your tongue and practice not being resentful.

okeydokie

while i see the pregnancy as a major issue to the immediate situation, the OP stated clearly here and in another thread that this is a long term situation, his frustration built up over the years and has now obviously peaked. taken for face value, his wife isnt a sexual person and no amount of cuddling is going to change that. if she was a willing sexual partner in this marriage she would have no issues with intimate contact with her husband of some sort.

Scannerguard

I have to agree somewhat with toolate in that I do think during my wife's first pregnancy I didn't pamper her enough. . .some women, like my stb-x, long to be taken care of.

It's kind of a "sugar daddy" thing but there you have it. THey don't want to hear things like, "Hey women in Asia go squat in the field and get back to cutting cane the next day."

That being said, all my advice regarding the long term problem of this and the pattern needs to be addressed. That's why I said give her a year of post-partum before you execute filing for divorce/annulment. But in the meantime, tell her that you would like to pamper her as much as you can but in the same breadth, what she is doing sexually is unacceptable.

Again, without mating, there really is no marriage anyway. . .it's just a legal partnership, simply a mishmosh business arrangement of property ownership and child-rearing. You mentioned the Christian perspective being infidelty as the only grounds and this translates into infidelty. . .no. . .it's not the only grounds.

A marriage can be annulled (From what I understand) on the basis of it not being consummated. And consummation is something that is an ongoing process, not a one time event on your wedding night.

That is, the Catholic Church's position (and we all know how uptight they are on sex) is "If you ain't sc&*&ing, you ain't married. You never were." Honestly, my stb-x and I were never married. . .we were just in business together.

Now. . .this doesn't mean if you have a dry spell that it's grounds for annulment either. There are some reasonable conditions to be met which is why it goes up before a tribunal. For instance, if she had cancer or a rough, nauseious pregnancy or a bout of post-partum depression. . .you can't just walk out because you aren't getting some. But an established pattern of non-consummation is certainly legitiate grounds in the Catholic Church.

Not sure what religion you are but that's a major Christian perspective - you are married - you are supposed to be doing it.

jgn2112fletch

I read your second post too, toolate. Not to sound insulting to many of the ladies, but where the he|| do you find your husbands? Drinking at the bar instead of sex on the honeymoon!? Answering the phone and gabbing with dad instead of a wife willing and waiting??? I'm sorry...many of you ladies could very easily ask people like me, "where the he|| do you guys find your wives???" It's a fair question. One of the sexiest things I've ever seen of my wife was immediately after our wedding reception...she took off her dress and there she was...my DREAM...a beautiful woman in thigh-highs and a garter belt and panties...and she wouldn't let me have sex with her. That should have been my big clue.

jgn2112fletch

You've hit the nail pretty squarely on the head mommy2. I'm not going to argue with my wife. I'm not going to be angry or anything. I'm just unemotional right now. I feel like I need to do this because she always expects that I'll be there...that after a day or two of our "spat" that I'll come crawling back like I always did in the past. But when the time is right, I just plan on asking her a few very simple questions about priorities to see where I fall (I have always made her a higher priority than me), and then I'm going to tell her that I love her, but that I'm not happy, and that if we're going to prevent this marriage from failing we need to see a counselor. My company pays for up to 12 sessions with a licensed marriage counselor. I think if she says no to that, then we can plan an amicable separation/divorce.
I'd rather my kids see a mutually respectful, fully loving divorce where they know they're loved, than a f$%ked up, fake, dysfunctional marriage.

jgn2112fletch

She doesn't like cuddling. She basically wants to be left alone when it comes to any form of intimacy or emotional lovey dovey stuff.

jgn2112fletch

Bingo.

jgn2112fletch

Even though we didn't have sex on our wedding night, I think the marriage is consummated. But basically since about 1 month after our marriage our sex life has been polar opposite...she wants none of it (unless she wants kids) and I need it. Not all the time like she might argue...I just think about it all the time because I never get it. And she'd claim that for a few months we did it once a week...but it wasn't sex IMHO...telling me to "get it over with" or "make it fast" while lying on the bed in a catatonic state while stating from time to time, "no, don't do that" is not sex.
There is a major disconnect here and an argument that over the last 7 years or so we've proven beyond any reasonable shadow of a doubt that we are woefully incapable of fixing. This is why I want to propose counseling.

turnera

Was she like that before you got married?

If not, I'm guessing she may have put on an act to get married. If so, I'd seriously consider just moving on to the divorce part, if your sex life has been as you describe.

Was she abused as a child?

jgn2112fletch

No...but interestingly enough, you're the second person to ask. My friend who I confided in asked as well. She was VERY sexual prior to getting married. It was a long distance relationship though, so when we were together (about once every six weeks) we'd have sex. Once we got married, it was great sex for a few weeks. then she had this MASSIVE yeast infection that we kept passing back and forth. Finally the doctor said, "stop!" So we took some diflucan, stopped sex for a couple of months, and...well...I wanted to have sex and she didn't. It's never been the same.
I think there may have been a little bit of an unintentional show so to speak before getting married...I think my wife has a small degree of a complex I call "the Lurch syndrome" -- see my "Ladies, do you 'lose it' after the thrill of the hunt is over?" thread. It'll explain why I call it the Lurch syndrome. But basically, I think my wife wants what she cannot have, and then when she has it, she takes it for granted and gets bored. Except she's so used to me coming back, so to speak, when we fight, that I need to show that I'm at the end of my rope...and I might not come back this time. Anyway, read that other thread if you want a deeper insight to this whole complex I think she has a little bit of.
But to readdress one of your points...I think the sex was a little bit of an act, but I think it was unintentional. I don't think she set out to sucker me into marriage with incredible sex.