As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day - Page 3
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Navigation »Talk About Marriage »Focused Topics »Sex in Marriage » As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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Old 02-17-2010, 05:56 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

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Was she abused?
No...sorry if it was buried but that was the first part of my last post. As far as I know, she was never abused (I had assumed you meant sexually or abused by her parents). I know that in high school, the guy she dated all through high school used to abuse her. I don't want to affix any sort of 1-10 scale, but I think it was an occasional slap or push coupled with being constantly cheated on and the humiliation of feeling for soeone that is openly hostile and uncaring toward you...the relationship lasted 5 years and I know it was immensly stressful for her. And yet she has told me on a couple of occasions that the only place she and him got along was in bed. Which makes me feel wonderful (not). How pathetic...she gets along great in bed with the dude that uses and abuses her and cheats on her and couldn't care less about her, but the dude that loves her dearly she has zero sexual attraction to. Check out points 4, 5, 6, and 7 on my second post in my thread Totally unaffectionate wife, sex is like pulling teeth with her and you'll get a little better understanding of what I mean here and what I'm feeling. Although I don't want to, I'm kinda seeing a pattern.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:56 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

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So true. I often wonder why the courts will not uphold the refusal of sex in marraiges -for grounds of a divorce - just as they do for infidelity. The refusing wife never gets any attention, she comes out of the process as innocent, only the man who is SO frustrated & in pain who slips up -because of her refusal. Just isn't right. The low drive spouse has everyone by the balls.

I feel for your situation.

I tell my husband if he ever starts acting like that ( I see it way too much on these boards), I WILL be WEAK, Frustrated, completely Miserable & WILL fall into the arms of another. ANd I mean it.

She needs to be told you are not willing to live like this the rest of your life. You can find someone else who will love you the way you NEED to be loved and cherished. LOts of things she can do for You when she is pregnant, it does not take much to take care of a man's needs. Probably 5 self-less minutes of her time once a day and I bet you would be VERY satisfied .
I think I love you! You should run for president.

Overall interesting discussion. My $0.02 is this:

1.) Whatever your needs are (sexual or otherwise) I think it's not only your right, but a real DUTY to DEMAND that they be met, perhaps not completely, but reasonably.
2.) You also have a DUTY to DEMAND no less than (but quite probably more than) 110% from YOURSELF going back towards your spouse.

It really is that simple. Not easy, but very simple.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:37 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

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2.) You also have a DUTY to DEMAND no less than (but quite probably more than) 110% from YOURSELF going back towards your spouse.

It really is that simple. Not easy, but very simple.
It isn't that simple. I do have the right, but I'm not going to DEMAND it...I have demanded it in the past obviously it got me nowhere. Truth of the matter is, I don't want to be with someone I have to DEMAND it from. I want to be with someone who wants to give it to me for, at the very least, out of the love and respect she has toward me. Right now I think my wife has very little of either for me.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:43 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

My pseudo-spouse is actually dealing with this issue in therapy. And My spouse was victimized (sexually manipulated by an authority figure) and verbally and emotionally abused by her parents.

I'm no shrink - but it's the internet, so I can pretend. Do I recall that your sex life was pretty active prior to marriage?

Here is my wife's issue in a nutshell, and maybe something similar is going on with yours.

Sex made her feel accepted, loved and worthwhile. She used sex as a means to pursue love - enthusiastically. Our relationship was rocky at the start. She was far more invested than I was - and she was sexually aggressive, and creative.

Fast forward to her 'knowing' that she had me; I loved her and wanted to marry her - and everything began to change. What it comes down to, is somewhere deep down, she doesn't actually believe that she deserves to be loved. So, in effect it's all about the pursuit, being inappropriate, and an element of uncertainty, danger and excitement. This is why she chose to pursue an affair rather than work on repairing our marriage. It's also why she pulls away from TOM now that she believes he loves her. It's also why she refuses to be proactive about getting a divorce. Uncertainty is her comfort zone as bizarre as that sounds.

Something to think about. So in your case, the guy that treated her like crap is the relationship that stands out in her mind as exhilarating. You validate her, show her devotion and affection - and basically she doesn't buy it.

Last edited by Deejo; 02-17-2010 at 09:25 PM. Reason: kant speel
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:41 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

Exactly. That's why I asked about the abuse. When they HAVE to use sex to get the man, they use it and hide their shame from themselves behind a wall. Then, when they don't have to use it any more cos they got the guy, they turn off the sex machine so their toxic shame will stop flaring.
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:54 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

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Exactly. That's why I asked about the abuse. When they HAVE to use sex to get the man, they use it and hide their shame from themselves behind a wall. Then, when they don't have to use it any more cos they got the guy, they turn off the sex machine so their toxic shame will stop flaring.
This is as interesting as it is depressing. Only a MC will be able to bring this out of her. Certainly not me.
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Old 02-18-2010, 07:56 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

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It isn't that simple. I do have the right, but I'm not going to DEMAND it...I have demanded it in the past obviously it got me nowhere. Truth of the matter is, I don't want to be with someone I have to DEMAND it from. I want to be with someone who wants to give it to me for, at the very least, out of the love and respect she has toward me. Right now I think my wife has very little of either for me.
Keep in mind that I clarified that it was NOT EASY...just simple. Also, let me be clear about what I meant by "demand". You can SAY you demand something, but if there is no real downside for the other party to give you that which you demand, then it's just begging/whining. If there is a very clear (ideally painful) downside to your spouse being indifferent to your demands--and they KNOW it--, then they will be met. HOWEVER, if you're not demanding of yourself in return at the same high level, you're just a self centered pig.

jgn, I have read your posts & I know that you have demanded of yourself at a very high level. I also realize that you have some family dynamics which make it very difficult to be 100% "demanding", so I think you are right that it might not be that simple for you NOW....but if you can send the clear message to your wife that, unless some serious changes come about SOON, you are gone at the first opportunity (and she believes you completely), you will either a.) have a spouse who suddenly becomes, respectful, aware & motivated toward meeting your needs....or b.) you will know where you stand.

But I think you better be aware that standing your ground could mean losing your family as you know it, eventually.
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:00 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

yeah, that's called boundaries. If you can't live the rest of your life without sex, that means you're willing to leave her. THAT is the basis behind your 'demand' - and of course, it should never be said as a demand. You should lovingly tell her that you want to be with her for the rest of her life, but you can't go without sex. So, if she has some issue with having sex, you are going to have to divorce so you can find a wife who will agree. If she is Christian, you may point out that the Bible says sex is to be PART of a marriage. Tell her you need to understand her thought process but, at the end of it all, you simply can't continue this way.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:03 AM   #39 (permalink)
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yeah, that's called boundaries. If you can't live the rest of your life without sex, that means you're willing to leave her. THAT is the basis behind your 'demand' - and of course, it should never be said as a demand. You should lovingly tell her that you want to be with her for the rest of her life, but you can't go without sex. So, if she has some issue with having sex, you are going to have to divorce so you can find a wife who will agree. If she is Christian, you may point out that the Bible says sex is to be PART of a marriage. Tell her you need to understand her thought process but, at the end of it all, you simply can't continue this way.
True "style points" do count in this, but only to the extent that they don't detract from the message. When I was in the OP's shoes, I erred on the side of being to rough.....but the conversation started out by my reaching out taking her hand & "lovingly sharing my concern" with her. That approach was met with a bristling nastiness & an almost hissing diminishing of my sexual needs as being sophomoric.

After about an hour of her indifference cynicism during this conversation. I just calmly said "you suck" & I meant it (I had never, EVER spoken like this to my wife in 23 years together). Let me tell you it stopped her dead in her tracks and, even though the conversation was a difficult one for the next several hours, the worm turned with that comment.

My wife has always been a VERY loving & warm woman, but on the topic of my sexual needs, she would just scoff & bristle. I think that if she were being 100% honest, even she would admit that she needed me to be pretty rough in delivering my message in order for her to really HEAR it.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:33 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

Great point. I'm pretty big on being in your face on things, because I think most people, at least in America, are taught to be polite at any cost, and it hurts us in relationships, because we'll continue to accept poor behavior from our spouse a LOT longer than we should. After 30 years of doing that, I finally realized how much it hurt BOTH of us to accept his harmful behavior. I actually helped him believe he was doing nothing wrong because I condoned it by saying nothing - and it's harmed his career and personal relationships. Now, I say what I believe, even though I'm afraid of the response.

And I hope/wish my husband would do the same. I do know he's been afraid to tell me the truth about some things because he expects poor behavior from me, too. So I work hard to fix my own, and be honest about his.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:23 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

The risk of the demand is that she may say good, that will be a relief... that's what my husband says, and then he stays anyway. I think he likes this sick sex for love game everyone has been talking about... he was highly sexual and creative and risky and then now sex is about control only. There is no passion in him, he has no desire to be considerate. Im in the same boat as the OP except Im the wife.

If she did start doing things for you, are you at a place that it would make a difference? Or would you be weary of why she was being so attentive and if it was going to end and she would go back to her usual ways? Just curious.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:41 AM   #42 (permalink)
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The risk of the demand is that she may say good, that will be a relief... that's what my husband says, and then he stays anyway.
There's no point 'demanding' if you aren't ready to walk yourself. It would likely have to be YOU leaving, since it's you saying you can't tolerate it any more. The ones not participating have no problem with the current situation.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:27 PM   #43 (permalink)
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There's no point 'demanding' if you aren't ready to walk yourself. It would likely have to be YOU leaving, since it's you saying you can't tolerate it any more. The ones not participating have no problem with the current situation.
100%
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:59 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: As predicted, the argument begins...no sex for Valentines Day

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If she did start doing things for you, are you at a place that it would make a difference? Or would you be weary of why she was being so attentive and if it was going to end and she would go back to her usual ways? Just curious.
I think so...but let's just say I'd be evaluating her every move. If all of a sudden it came on strong but I could tell she wasn't into it or something was off, I'd be skeptical. I think in order for her to successfully demonstrate sincerity, it would take a year or so of total sexual reciprocation. Anyway can fake anything for a short period, but after 8 years of sexual misery, I honestly think that I'm justified demanding 8 years of anything I say (and any time I say it) goes in terms of sex...and that's just to get us back to even. I know that's not the way it works so that's not the solution I'm after. Just a hypothetical example.
But it will take a sustained longer-term effort with overtones of sincerity and mutual respect for me to "buy it."
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:30 AM   #45 (permalink)
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