Chopblock

I don't know if I've ever asked this question explicitly and directly so here goes:

Women: when you withhold sex from your man (for whatever reason), and the complain that he gets more and more needy, do you really honestly think that making him wait longer is going to make him want sex less?

I can understand that there are frustrations in place for why you don't want to have sex with him. But as days become weeks and months, he is just going to get more and more demanding and frustrated!

What I really don't understand is why you'll go so long without actually COMMUNICATING with him. Its one thing to withhold because you are upset, but to give him absolutely no clue WHY you are upset (hence, no opportunity to fix it) just makes him even madder! Now he feels deprived, unloved, undesired, and totally in the dark.

The way I see it, every day you don't have sex is a day you did things "your way". Wouldn't it be fair to at least throw him a bone and do things HIS way once in a while?

Chris H.

Chopblock,

perhaps you should reword that to speak from your own experience rather than generalize that women (in general) do this... I can see how it could possibly offend a few....

__________________

swedish

I've never withheld sex as some sort of punishment or game-playing but I definitely need to feel loved and secure to be in the mood so I guess "my way" would be to feel that way all the time and everything would be right with the world Speaking for myself, I would have a hard time telling my husband that I would feel more loved if he kissed me/hugged me throughout the day and would feel more in the mood later if he did those things...I guess I would feel if I had to point out that he needed to act loving towards me I would feel bad that I even had to ask for that, so if it's not naturally there, I don't think it could be fixed by him. Fortunately, that's not my situation at all, but if it were, it would be difficult for me to be in the mood. I don't think either person would be happy with alternating withholding sex and courtesy sex...maybe a quick fix but unless the underlying issues are addressed I don't see that working long-term.

Chopblock

I generalized because this is a common issue on this forum, and many others. Its one I suffer from, and have tried to help countless others suffering from. While it may not apply to "all" women as few things are all or nothing, it is by no means small or insignificant.

What I've heard so far is very common, and points to other very usual behaviors. For example the "if I have to tell him to be loving, then it defeats the purpose" is a common relationship buster. It falls into the "people aren't mindreaders" category.

While I can understand how having to say "I wish you'd be more loving and kiss me sometimes during the day" 'cheapens' the experience because you wonder if he's doing it because he wants to or because you told him, I ALSO see how there's no smoke, therefore no fire.

Maybe he doesn't KNOW he isn't doing it enough. Men and women are wired differently. For me, I'd much rather SAY something and have it be absolutely known, then assume my partner is being malicious and stew silently. But again: that is a man's solution, to actively solve a problem.

I just get so saddened because of the stubbornness and lack of communication -- especially when the women say that they want sex but don't take action. Your man is hurting and he is confused. He misses the intimacy and he feels punished. He feels helpless when he has no idea WHY he is being punished.

Then he TRIES to solve the problem. He thinks "if I do <thing> she'll be happy" and when those things just dont' work, he gets even more frustrated. Now he feels like "I've done A, B, C, and she is still mad.... why bother".

I've often said that the time to fear is when the man stops asking. At least if he's asking for sex, he's still interested. When he shuts up, it means he has given up and is planning on seeking it elsewhere.

So swedish is saying she needs love to want sex, and many men say they need sex to feel loved. Really, is it so important that he "just does what you want" that you can't drop him a hint?

So instead of cluing him in, you make him wait. He waits and waits and gets more impatient. We hear it here all the time "I feel like all he wants is sex". Well DUH, cuz you've made him wait for months.

I maintain that you KNOW what he wants (sex), but he may not know what you want (help with chores, more emotion, more money, more support...). Since you KNOW what he wants, did it ever occur to you that if you give it to him, maybe you'll get what you want?

In fact... we so OFTEN hear men saying "I've tried being more loving, buying her gifts, helping with the kids, doing more chores, and we STILL aren't having sex". But how often do you hear a woman say "I tried giving him more sex, but it didn't work"?

juls

I agree with what he has wrote when it is in regards to women who do withhold for control purposes. It is very common and very hurtful to the husbands who have to deal with it....

mommy22

I personally don't think lack of communication is gender specific. I know way too many couples who get into argurments and decide they just won't speak to each other for a few days. What does that accomplish?? In all our years, we've never not spoken to each other as a means of resolving conflict. I think there are some women who do just as you say and leave it up to guesswork-- and yes, that's very unfair. However, many women state their needs and the men don't follow through. And vice versa-- same goes with men wanting more sex and the women don't follow through. I don't really think it should be an attack on the gender but rather an attack on the lack of communication and follow-through. My husband even admitted last week, "Honey, there were countless times you mentioned counseling and I was too caught up in my own stuff to care. You would ask me about changing certain behaviors and I'd just nod my head but with no real intent to change" (which he reads all my posts so he would attest to this). After years of this, I felt like a nag when I mantioned anything, so I just didn't bring up things that bothered me. On the other hand, many men beg their wives to spice things up sexually and the wives sidestep it. I gave my husband sex almost every day (sometimes more than once a day) but he could tell my heart wasn't in it. It was nothing more than a release. His needs weren't being met through the emotional connection that should happen with sex. So you see, it becomes cyclical. For every action, there's a reaction. Couples have to work together as a team to fill each other's needs. It's cliche, but it really is give and take. Don't be willing to take unless you're willing to give first!

swedish

I think you wanted the short answer, not one that may actually be helpful...so
"Do you think forcing us to wait makes us want it less?"
NO

sweetp101

Maybe some guys would think that witholding sex is being controlling. Did you ever think that maybe their hearts are not in it. My husband and I have been having problems for 9 months now. I would love nothing more than anything to have sex with my husband, but my heart is just not in it. It might make him feel better for the moment, but what about me. When the two minutes are up, what is next?

Maybe you should just ask what is really going on. Most women will talk if not asked in a rhetorical way.

Chopblock

Swedish: if you actually read my responses you'd see I am looking for more than the short answer. If you want to play games though, let me ask the follow up question: "if you know withholding won't make them want it less, why are you doing it?"

To those who put more thought into it, thank you. I knew the heart issue would come up, which I recognize is a related problem.

Nobody wants to be forced to "go through the motions". Yes if she "gives in" and has sex with him just to shut him up, he may be satisfied for a little while. He may even put more effort into fixing what HE has done wrong, which may restore the woman's heart into the act. I believe this is the "upwards spiral" that could be one solution to the "downwards spiral" of withholding -> frustration -> withholding -> frustration.

That being said, men aren't as dense as they are made out to be, and can tell when the heart isn't in it. I want to make love to my gf, not just be "placated" (though after 8 months of nothing, being placated would at least be SOMETHING).

Now lets split something here. There is a difference between "I am doing this for you" and "I am going through the motions". I do believe in "I'm doing this for you" there is still some heart in it. While she may not want to have sex (or go to a hockey game, or shoot hoops, or go to hooters) she wants him to be happy. When one goes through the motions, one does so with no heart. One is dead inside.

I can see how going through the motions would make the problem worse -- the emptiness and the feeling of being used.

So the ultimate question is: how do you restore the emotional part to the physical part?

If we revisit some of the cases put forth here we see many degrees. Some could just be a case of mental barriers, or frustration from lack of help/needs not being met. Fix the lack, and the problem fixes? One hopes so.

Sweetp101 touches on this. In your case, sweetp101, I'd love to see your answers to these questions:

1) What do you want? (ie. what would you need from him to restore your heart into it)

2) Do you think that if you gave him sex, he'd, of his own will, fix whatever he is doing wrong?

3) Does he know your heart is not into lovemaking? Does he know WHY your heart isn't in it?

4) What can you do to make him aware of the problem so he can take action.

I believe these are excellent questions to consider that will hopefully start the healing.

sweetp101

Here is my answers:

1. We have talked and he knows what problems exist in our marriage. (We are currently in marriage counseling.

2. No, been there done that. We did it for 12 years. Did not resolve anything.

3. Yes he knows why my heart is not in it.

4. He already knows the problems. He just has to figure out how to fix them.

Chopblock

I am thrilled to hear that you guys have communicated and are in counselling to try and fix the problems. I am also glad to hear that the problems seem to be fixable, and that you are allowing him to try and fix them.

It sounds like you guys already passed the stage that most people stumble at, which is communicating. I am saddened that he didn't fix the problems while you were still giving.

Nonetheless, I wish you guys the best.

I'd also love to hear if you have any tips for communicating. Did you finally break down and say "here's why I'm withholding sex" or something of that nature? Or did it come out of another discussion or him saying "why isn't your heart in it anymore"

I would love nothing more than my gf to either say "here is why we aren't having sex" so that I could make an effort to fix it. Like most guys, i prefer direct vs subtle. I will not catch the parallel between the lack of sex, and the way you were mad 5 weeks ago because CVS was out of mint milanos and you shrieked at me when I didn't change the dog's water as soon as you wanted me to"

I'm also curious about mommy22 who seems not to have gotten to the communication stage yet. You say he could tell the emotion wasn't in it. Did he know why? Did you tell him why? I'd love the answers to the same 4 questions from you.

For a long time I've also been avoiding the possibility that I might just have to say "I can't live like this anymore. If we don't at least TALK about it and TRY to fix it, then I'm outta here" I do believe we can work through our problems, but I need to know what they are before I can try to fix anything.

swedish

If you actually read my response you would already know that I don't withhold sex. My husband and I are both fulfilled in that department

Chopblock

I did read your response and it brought up the issue I mentioned earlier. To clarify. You said:

"I would have a hard time telling my husband that I would feel more loved if he kissed me/hugged me throughout the day and would feel more in the mood later if he did those things..."

Does that mean that telling your husband what you want cheapens it sooooo much, that you'd rather bottle it up inside? I know you said you "didn't" withhold deliberately, but you did say if you didn't get certain things, then you weren't in the mood.

So if your husband had no idea what you wanted to be in the mood (or needed a reminder), are you saying you would rather stay silent and both suffer than clue him in and fix the problem? If so, why?

swedish

I don't think I'm the 'average' woman in that sense. I'm very shy and introverted and really struggle to say what I'm thinking/feeling, especially if it's something I feel very emotional about. It's really not 'cheapening' it as much as it would make me feel that the only way to get him to love me is to tell him to...it really stems from my own insecurities (I could go on for pages about the male influences in my life which are most likely the core) but it is what it is. I do have to work hard at saying how I feel, asking for what I want and do so every day. Our marriage is now strong but my husband is like me so for us it is a 2-way street and when he seems distant or having an off day, I always (now) ask what's up and if there's anything I can do. He does the same but we both need to work on it every day. It's too easy for us to bottle things up...just who we are. So, no I can't stand staying silent, it's just really hard for me not to.

Our marriage was in dire straights a year ago for this very reason and once we both took our guards down and opened up to one another, it has been like meeting him all over again, only much better

sweetp101

I had been discussing our issues for 12 years. After being depressed for 11 of those twelve years, I finally asked for a separation and stated that it was time for me to move on. This made him realize that I was serious. It took 8 months before we started counseling.

Thats what I meant when saying maybe the woman's heart is not into it. I am not in love with my husband anymore, but I willing to work and try to rekindle the love we once had (If that is possible. Nothing will ever be same.) Having sex is not going to make me fall in love with him. It would only feel like he is raping (maybe the wrong choice of words) me because I will not be into it.

It took 11 years for me to realize that I no longer loved him. He was just a crutch nothing more.