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Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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Old 06-02-2010, 10:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sexless marriage, *please* give me advice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve71 View Post
all you hold precious seems to have been parodied, undermined
When I was writing my first response, I tried so hard to describe my understanding of youngb's feelings and concerns. I wish I were able to formulate so eloquently as stever71 did here. It's what I thought but was unable to compose into words.

I'm getting confused about a few things. Like Steve71, I noticed the appearance of some new references too but ignored them since I didn't feel they were necessarily part of the bigger issue, or maybe I ignored because I didn't get where they suddenly came from or what they were connected to.

Another thing is that it doesn't seem the two of you are open to any suggestion, except that which you already do, which is talk. So I wonder in what direction you want responses to aim? I'm hoping for your sakes you can find resolution and that this problem plays out to happy conclusion, but logic tells me you cannot go on forever in this condition. So if you don't try SOMETHING, how do you expect this will end? If you insist separation is not worth a try and you don't try anything at all, then I fear separation will present itself again but with a more undesirable nuance and without option. Okay, you don't want to try separation right now, but would you please try something?

Another thing I fear is hubby just might be making matters worse. He is being a dear and I believe is sincerely remorseful. but he still needs an attitude adjustment. By attitude, I mean his way of thinking. I didn't mention it yesterday, but I was uncomfortable with something he said, which was.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by 143bdr View Post
We love each other and if we want it to work, our subconscious will kick in and it will
But that's the same as......

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Originally Posted by youngb View Post
He suggested I just do it and get it done with, he understands I'm going to feel awkward but after the first couple of times he's hoping things get better.
Which means he thinks he has the answer and the whole problem is just something you will get over. Then today you tell us......

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngb View Post
he tried last night to just touch me, rubbing my head, arm-innocent stuff...I just got really angry and asked him to stop petting me. I know he was trying to do the right thing but I was so mad that I wasn't getting turned on due to the way he acted so I just put an end to it.
I can't be certain by that description if he was trying to initiate sex, but I'm thinking by your response that you felt he was. But he shouldn't. He shouldn't try to make love with you at all right now, and that's why I fear he may be making matters worse. I think it commendable that he loves you so much and is being so patient, but he has to understand he doesn't have the answer for this. I suggested a movie to watch and book to read. They would let him know he shouldn't be trying anything and shouldn't be expecting anything. So, I'm back to wishing you guys would select a suggestion, any of the suggestions, to try in hopes to prevent the issue from becoming something that only years of therapy can remedy.

And finally, I am also a little confused by your recent posts, where you express so much anger. I didn't get that from your original post and wonder if his attempts yesterday made you angrier than you originally were, or if you felt this kind of anger all along?

Last edited by Susan2010; 06-02-2010 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sexless marriage, *please* give me advice...

The anger...I go back and forth between feeling sad and feeling angry. The more I've been on here, the more angry I have been getting. It's no offense to anyone here it just reminds me he screwed up something which I considered perfect...

I totally can see what you're getting at when he thinks something will just kick in, he might be referring to sex, I don't think he is though, I just think he feels as lost and confused as I do...he's angry too, at himself.

Last night he *definitely* was NOT trying to have sex, I'm 100% sure of that, he was trying to start somewhere slowly so I can be comfortable with even the most basic displays of affection...he rubbed my arm, my head, little things, nothing at all sexual but I got very angry. Angry that I'm going through this crap and I did try to tell myself he's sorry, he's only touching your arm just calm down, but my anger takes over every damn time.

Tonight he suggested that we kiss at least once a day. Nothing sexual, just a closed mouth peck on the lips. I was just annoyed, he said we have to start with small baby steps and I do get that but I don't know why I can't just get over this resentment...I know he's a fabulous husband, I'm so lucky to have him, and I trust him with my life, we're everything to each other, I'm just carrying all this resentment around with me.

I guess the easiest way to explain it would be a typical day in our life...he's gone about 12 hours a day working which is a lot-another reason why I wasn't really down with a separation because I barely see him as it is. While he is gone at work I still miss him just as much as the first day we were married-corny but true...when he's at work I'm usually not angry, I miss him and I convince myself that today will be "the day" that something is going to change or click in my head and things will be better. I look forward to him walking in the door from work, but then when he does it's like BAM!!! I'm pissed all over again I'm mad that I don't want to jump on him and just do the stuff we used to and then I just blame him and turn cold...I know this is bad but my point was to illustrate that I have plenty of time to miss him but when we are face to face I just wanna flip out. We don't really argue when he gets home, we have dinner together each night and then we will talk about his day while we snuggle or lay in bed together and I have NO problem with that. We snuggle all the time and I love it! I don't feel like I'm lying there with my brother but I know it's not the same as having sex...

Hopefully this helps Susan, thank you
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:55 AM   #18 (permalink)
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You convince me more and more that you need to separate, so here's another plug at it LOL. You keep saying you miss him when he's at work, but your anger floods back over you as soon as he walks in the door. You are proving my point though I know you don't see it that way. I'm saying you have to miss him. With no walking through the door each day, you spend the time - day in and day out of the separation period - missing him. The hope is that missing him becomes the prominent emotion because there's no opportunity for reminders or for you anger to resurface. Why? Because he's not there. He's not walking through the door. So missing him is all there is for you to do. It's human nature that we see a person and immediately remember what they did to us, and the reverse is true that seeing them reminds of what they did for us. But "out of sight, out of mind" is also true. You less likely recall the offense or the good deed until you see the offender or benefactor, or at least the feelings of resentment or gratitude are not nearly as strong as when you see the person. Get it?

Now, I'd like to bring something to your attention, and that is to remind you of the loving, worthy, and wonderful person you are. Being that is who you are, I know you are capable of forgiveness. You know your husband is remorseful and he said he's sorry, but I don't think you have forgiven him. You probably said you do, but in your heart you haven't. If you did, you wouldn't harbor so much anger and resentment. Forgiveness is discharging the deed as well as releasing the anger and resentment. I can understand you might still have to deal with the yuck factor of a picture he ingrained into your psyche, but at the moment and as a first step, relieve yourself of this anger and forgive your husband. There is no way you can move forward until you do that.

That's something you can work on during the next two weeks the two of you are apart . And just imagine spending that time missing him & forgiving him = wanting him more and more. Remember, no masturbating as SimplyAmorous admonished.

Your husband's job during that two weeks is to watch that movie and do what it (and the book) tells him to do. He's to call you on the phone because "I wanted to hear your voice" and saying other kinds of things people say when they meet and are getting to know each other. Share your day with each other but over the telephone. Say all the I love yous and the I miss yous but over the telephone. Get to know each other all over again, but he is not to be affectionate and he can't make any sexual advances.

I know you don't want to, but this is not a terrible thing to try. Imagine military couples are forced to spend 18 months apart with no choice in the matter, and they survive just fine. You can do this because it's a very possible means to a breakthrough. With that purpose in mind, your conviction to get past this, and devotion to each other.....you can do this.

Honestly? I bet you don't make it a full two weeks.

Last edited by Susan2010; 06-03-2010 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sexless marriage, *please* give me advice...

Youngb,

If I may, I'd like to point out what's apparent to me. You decided to take an offense and get angry at what you perceive to be an offensive act of your husband. Only you have the power to see it differently (i.e. harmlessness in his actions) and change how you feel. As long as you see the act as offensive and harmful, you will remain a victim to his harmful and offensive actions. If you can see harmlessness in his actions, you no longer have any reasons to blame him for your own feelings of anger.

I'd like to ask you why you have such investment in being a victim. Do you really want your past perfect relationship back? Do you really love your husband? Do you want to be happy?
Only you have the power to change your own feelings.... You said that you have already forgiven him, but how can it be when you still blame him for your own feelings of hurt and anger? It only takes your willingness to see it differently.

I wish you much happiness. I have no doubt that you can dig deep to let the love you already have flow back to your life.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sexless marriage, *please* give me advice...

Hi youngb,

a few more disconnected thoughts - I can't weave them together at 2.00am!

today while I was driving around I thought I would see which key words from your posts floated into my mind. It went something like 'locker-room, princess, anger, perfect'...and I see the 'perfect' word is at the top of one of your recent posts again. Now, i've been around the block a few times and i've never had a perfect relationship. I reckon love affairs and marriages are fecund creatures in a state of continuous evolution - and they often evolve the wrong way. Sometimes badly. I can't see how deep relationships and all the multi-layered dialogues within them can attain the state where all conflict is resolved. So, while I know you've had previous deep relationships are your expectations of this one unrealistically high...perhaps a little inflexible?

Susan has raised the issue (hope i'm summarizing correctly, Susan) of becoming fenced in, incapacitated, by anger. I'm beginning to get a similar feeling that for some reason potentially constructive strategies can't get as far as changing your impulses. (I know Questions has suggested that we choose our feelings; my own view is that our feelings choose us). This makes me wonder if your man has inadvertantly hit some as yet unidentified trigger that's releasing a lot of anger from an unrelated, possibly early, deep-down experience. I don't want to pry into things too difficult to share here but I do get the feeling that your anger - some posts here simply fizz with it - has a self-generating quality, a life of its own. If I'm right, while i'm sure everyone here will be pleased to explore to the limits of our experience, it may be time to consider finding a qualified, reputable counselor to guide you towards a resolution.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sexless marriage, *please* give me advice...

Well, when I say perfect, I guess I mean it in a fairytale sense which is was and I feel like that was ruined. I know nothing stays "perfect" forever but as I have said, it's hard to accept that he didn't listen to me for so long...I thought I forgave him, I believe he is sorry, I just can't forget it.

I might be wrong here but if you're trying to get at some sort of childhood trauma with the whole trigger thing, no-there is none...just a lot of resentment built up over a long period of time. I don't think I choose my feelings-that would be fantastic if I did though, I wouldn't have a care in the world! However, these feelings are here, I'm just trying to get rid of them...

My expectations for this relationship are high, yes. That's why it hurt so much more, I put him on such a pedestal and he blew it in my eyes I'm stubborn by nature, always have been...I hold grudges and I know I shouldn't but I always have been that way. I'm trying though and you all really help me, venting is healthy and this is the first time I've been able to do it with someone besides my husband. I have too much pride to talk to my friends about it...I know that's bad too but admitting something is less than perfect has never been easy for me. Thanks to all of you for the advice thus far.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sexless marriage, *please* give me advice...

In the title of this thread you say: *please* give me advice...
Well here it is, but I doubt you will like it, much less take it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngb View Post
He masturbates frequently, about 5 times a week...he has a high sex drive...myself, maybe about 3x a week or so, I still have a sex drive that's pretty high as well.
This is a good sign, it's also the clue to the solution.

What you both need is something to push you over the hump. How about letting mother nature help?

Here is my suggestion:
You both obviously have healthy sex drives, which is evidenced by your masturbation habits. However, all your urgency is being defused by your masturbation. This applies to both of you.

So this is what I would suggest: Both of you must stop masturbating for now - for up to one month. Make a pact that the only release should be through each other. every day that goes by will gradually turn up the heat. Without the outlet of masturbation you will both want sex. He will not be so damn patient with you, and you will in turn want to get over this hurdle. Also, there is very little chance of him loosing his erection if he has not cum for 2 weeks.

However, I'm worried about you. You are in two minds. You say you want to have sex with him, but when he tries to lead into it even gently you blow him out, as seen in your post here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngb
Last night he *definitely* was NOT trying to have sex, I'm 100% sure of that, he was trying to start somewhere slowly so I can be comfortable with even the most basic displays of affection...he rubbed my arm, my head, little things, nothing at all sexual but I got very angry. Angry that I'm going through this crap and I did try to tell myself he's sorry, he's only touching your arm just calm down, but my anger takes over every damn time.

Tonight he suggested that we kiss at least once a day. Nothing sexual, just a closed mouth peck on the lips. I was just annoyed, he said we have to start with small baby steps and I do get that but I don't know why I can't just get over this resentment...I know he's a fabulous husband, I'm so lucky to have him, and I trust him with my life, we're everything to each other, I'm just carrying all this resentment around with me.
Personally, I would leave you if I were in his shoes. In fact, I would be careful with my advice above, because the frustration that stopping masturbation might bring him might make him get very angry and then leave you. Perhaps only you should stop masturbating unless you definitely plan to have sex with him. This is powerful stuff. You have been warned.

I'm not your counsellor - I don't have to say nice things to you to get you to keep coming back for the next 18 months. I'm not going to mince words with you, because you come across as a proud person who holds grudges and procrastinates. I can't believe you've kept this going for over a year, and he has just lapped it up. It's a tragedy. Your marriage is filling the world with sad music. If one of you decides to come of the fence it would be a relief to the universe.

In short, may I ask you in the nicest possible way, to get over yourself?
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:04 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sexless marriage, *please* give me advice...

Hi youngb,

well, you've certainly had a range of responses!

I'm out of fresh ideas for now. My thoughts keep coming back to what seems like a nexus compounded of very high expectations of your man and the triggering of an spiralling anger bigger than warranted, beyond your control and eclipsing the possibility of future redemption and growth.

I'm not skilled enough to speculate further on the strength of what you've told us so far. It could well be that somebody else will turn up here with a very different set of perceptions and open things up further. Meanwhile, I suggest you consider the services of a proper counselor to explore ways of managing your anger and uncovering its source. I say this because my lady and I hit a very similar set of problems and our joint failure to resolve her very deep-rooted issues wrecked what should have been a great relationship. That was avoidable - please don't fall into the same trap!
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:37 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Hi youngb,
I say this because my lady and I hit a very similar set of problems and our joint failure to resolve her very deep-rooted issues wrecked what should have been a great relationship.
And this just goes to show that what people need to be doing is fixing themselves first, rather than trying to fix their relationships.
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:02 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sexless marriage, *please* give me advice...

As "hard" as Mark Twains response was, I found myself thinking the same thoughts, but not bold enough to lay them out there.

I do not feel the husband needs to stop masterbating or at least he should have an outlet of 2 times per week by his own hand - otherwise he will get majorly frustrated, Resentment will climb horribly & he may find himself in the arms of another who "desires" him, doesn't have to forgive him for any of his lockerroom goofiness & doesn't find him so repulsive.

I personally would fall under these circumstances if my spouse continued to shrug off every single gesture of affection -for months & months on end. It would hurt excruciatingly to be rejected THIS LONG by the one who claims they still love you & has forgiven you.

I give HIM alot of credit for remaining faithful. Please consider this, the man's patience & willingness to change is worth Gold. Don't let him slip away, don't allow your marraige to continue down this path.

I wonder what you are setting him up for -possibly an addiction to Porn if he is using this outlet while he can not even try to make love to his wife. This may become a habit that didnt have to be.


Please Please admit you have NOT truly forgiven him for the hurt you experienced.

Keep in mind, a man's way of feeling loved emotionally by his wife IS phyiscal touch. Yes, he hurt you - for a year. What if another 6 months passes & you still feel exactly the same, you are still holding onto this grudging mentality - he is still masterbating- and waiting, you are masterbating & still repulsed ? What a waste of living and enjoying.

Please see >>> Grudges KILL , maime & destroy. Let this go. Determine to Look at him with NEW eyes- after all he has changed, or do you feel he is faking it /not genuine? \

You simply must do this, you must enlighten your mind & change your ways or you could stand to loose this marraige. And if he is telling you that will never happen, he is being "too nice" about it all, and he needs to take a stand, and not be so passive.

By all means, if you can not do this on your own, do seek Professional counsel.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:14 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sexless marriage, *please* give me advice...

Forgiveness is defined as letting go of the anger associated with the bad behavior. Clearly you have not done that. Step 1 is to honestly acknowledge to yourself and your H that you are trying to forgive him, but aren't able to do so yet.

I also think you need to tell him not to touch you at all for now. That if you want contact you will initiate it with him.

As a man I agree that he royally screwed up after lots and lots of warnings.

I do think it may take - a break for you to get past this. That could be by limiting your interaction with him - just discussing schedules - and separate bedrooms for a while. Or maybe a true separation would help. Your current approach is not working.


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Originally Posted by youngb View Post
Well, when I say perfect, I guess I mean it in a fairytale sense which is was and I feel like that was ruined. I know nothing stays "perfect" forever but as I have said, it's hard to accept that he didn't listen to me for so long...I thought I forgave him, I believe he is sorry, I just can't forget it.

I might be wrong here but if you're trying to get at some sort of childhood trauma with the whole trigger thing, no-there is none...just a lot of resentment built up over a long period of time. I don't think I choose my feelings-that would be fantastic if I did though, I wouldn't have a care in the world! However, these feelings are here, I'm just trying to get rid of them...

My expectations for this relationship are high, yes. That's why it hurt so much more, I put him on such a pedestal and he blew it in my eyes I'm stubborn by nature, always have been...I hold grudges and I know I shouldn't but I always have been that way. I'm trying though and you all really help me, venting is healthy and this is the first time I've been able to do it with someone besides my husband. I have too much pride to talk to my friends about it...I know that's bad too but admitting something is less than perfect has never been easy for me. Thanks to all of you for the advice thus far.
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