BorrowedHalo

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between this and rape. I mean, for years people have said that you can't blame the victim because it's wrong unless both parties are consenting. We can't say, "She asked for it by flirting or dressing in sexy clothes." But, on the other hand, how can we say that sex is a necessity for men without confirming that rapists are simply not to be blamed for their acts because they were simply fulfilling their needs?
Also, I had to laugh a little about the "Just don't get him too used to it" comment. You mean like, say, when I was first dating and married and we wanted to have sex all the time? I guess someone should have told me then not to do it too often as that would get him "used to it". LOL I will make a note to add this to the "talk" with my daughter. Jk

~K

BorrowedHalo

Just playing devil's advocate on this one, but is there any possibility that men believe this simply BECAUSE they have been told this?

MEM11363

Halo,
I did not find your post to be constructive. So let me take you through this and you can decide for yourself if you want to continue to refer to high drive males in the same sentence as rapists.

First and foremost like most of the men here I have never and will never hit my wife. Not only that I have never used my greater size/strength to physically intimidate her in any way. As for forcing her to have sex - since that would be FAR worse than hitting her - the idea is highly offensive. And I treat my W same as I treated my GF's any other woman I have dealt with. Physical aggression with women is simply forbidden.

With that out of the way - I told my W early on that I have a high drive, don't function well without frequent sex and that other than that I am very low maintenance and very giving/accommodating without being a pushover.

I also pointed out that if I chose to focus solely on my desires, I would get a job as a librarian (I love books, love libraries and were money no object would have made an excellent librarian and researcher). Had I done that - she would have had constant, relentless financial stress and I would have had a cool job and wouldn't have to do anything I didn't "want" to do.

But my W would have been miserable and tense if I had done that. So instead I worked a series of high stress, high pay technology jobs. And by MAKING THAT MAJOR EXTRA EFFORT I completely removed financial stress from her life and enabled her to be a SAHM and have 3 kids. To her credit she didn't use money for frivolous crap. She used it for the kids and to invest in a good house and the rest got saved. And today we have no debt of any kind.

There were MANY TIMES I wanted to quit my job/jobs. I never did. I had made a commitment, she was doing a great job raising the children and being a W and I didn't want to disrupt that.

I can also say with absolute certainty that there were many nights that she would have rather read a book, watched TV, slept, etc. than have sex with me. But she felt like part of being a good/great W was to MAKE THE EFFORT by making me feel loved and de-stressed by giving me great quantity and quality sex. And mostly I "think" she was happy to make me happy. She felt glad she could take me to the moon and back.

And yes - there is a dark aspect to any real life. There were DEFINITELY times I resented that she had this nice - smooth 1950's style life and didn't have to worry about closing deals - or connecting flights. And DEFINITELY times when she resented my relentless need for sex. Not often on either side - but real life isn't perfect. If overall it is good - you are lucky. We have been lucky.

So let me ask you - does this sound like the rapist/victim model or simply a case of two people who mostly made each other's needs and happiness a priority?

BorrowedHalo

Hmm, it seems like I have offended you. Let me try to put it another way. I'm going to say that it is very difficult and somewhat embarrassing to admit that this is the way I PERSONALLY feel. With my other posts, I talked about others who share some of my feelings. What I'm about to say, I don't know if they agree or not. So, here goes....

First, I don't think you can equate a job--no matter how much you like or dislike it--with sex. Saying that you wanted this but did this is all well and good, but sex is SO personal. I don't think there's really anything that can equal the amount of personal boundaries and intimacy as sex.

Now, my husband travels. Sometimes he travels for most of the month. When he comes home, I don't even thinks he "expects" sex. But I know he wants it. So, on Monday, when he leaves, I'm relieved. I hate that. What a terrible way to feel. But at least I don't feel like I'm disappointing him. Then, on Tuesday and Wednesday, I still feel pretty good. By Thursday, though, I start feeling like, "Oh, right. Tomorrow's Friday. I'll have to have sex." And by Friday, I'm completely dreading it. Then, by the time the time comes around I'm thinking of whatever I can to get through it. "Should we paint the basement den? I forgot to ask the vet about the cat's weight. I hope those towels that were drying on the deck don't blow away. I wonder what the weather will be tomorrow?" Then he says, "That wasn't so bad, was it?" And I say, "Uh uh." And I'm thinking, "I wonder how long that'll last."

And, I want to reiterate that I have asked the OB/GYN about it. I've actually asked different doctors in different states at different ages of my life. They have both told me that it's fairly common. I also want to reiterate that I would LOVE to fix the "problem". But just doing it because he has to have it doesn't ring true as a "fix".

txhunter54

BH,

Like your H, I sometimes travel for business. When things were good, I looked forward to getting home, being with my wife and kids. But, when you get home and there isn't any excitement from my W that I'm home after being away all week, it really sucks. I'm thinking that I'm trying to provide for my family the best way I can by making the sacrifice of the business trips and then get little or no appreciation for it. So, much for absense makes the heart grow fonder.

It's an attitude thing. Making the effort to make your H feel wanted and appreciated. Recognizing the sacrifices he is making to help the family. He wants you and wants to be with you and you throw up roadblocks. I have experienced it a lot. I'm still trying to figure out how to knock through those roadblocks or get my wife not to build them in the first place.

okeydokie

halo, you are painting a picture of what alot of guys in here think their woman are. i see your point of view, i see alot of your attitude towards sex in my wife, it has opened my eyes and for that i thank you. i need to get some on the side

AmorousWarrior

lol@Okeydokie.
I've just read this entire thread and I'm just amazed at how much of myself and my wife I see in here. Not in a good way either. We seem to have the same issues as the OP. She seems to have no drive, I can't turn her on, etc.

lime

BorrowedHalo, are there any reasons why you could look forward to your husband coming home? Dreading sex seems to cloud your whole mood and attitude towards his return. Do you view sex as a totally negative thing? How about intimacy--kissing, hugging, back rubs? I bet there are some positive things that YOU enjoy that you could do for him when he gets home to show that you care about him. I think for him a large part of the intimacy "problem" in your relationship is your attitude--I'm not saying you should magically start loving sex (especially if you are on hormonal birth control! This part is NOT your fault at all), but you could maybe start showing some enthusiasm in other areas connected to intimacy.

I don't really want to spend a lot of time addressing the rapist argument, because I think that that is an incredibly negative way to view sex and your marriage. I realize it was hypothetical of course, but it might be more constructive to think of hypothetical (or real!) POSITIVE situations. Don't think about sex right now--think about the things you love and appreciate about your husband. Think about things you can do to make him happy that YOU would like to do as well. Focus on those things for the next time he comes home and see if it makes a difference in your attitude towards him. This won't magically "fix" your sex life, but it might make you appreciate your husband more, to the point where you might enjoy pleasing him even if you don't get any physical enjoyment out of it.

turnera

Believe what? That men deserve to have sex in their marriage?

turnera

Well, since we're being controversial, I have often wished my H would do just that - get some on the side to take the onus off me.

I echo BH's feelings; I go through the exact same thing when my H travels - relief that I get X days 'off' and then dread that he will be coming home and expecting it.

That said, he is amazing as far as making sure I'm taken care of always, and always first. So it's not that there's anything wrong. It's great.

It's me. It's my childhood and my issues. I wish it would be different. There's really nothing wrong with having sex more, I do understand that; but something always holds me back and makes me feel that way.

I will say that, for a while, while I was actively working on my marriage, and liking my H more, I was more 'into' it and looking forward to it, and using our 52 Invitations to Grrrreat Sex book, because HE was being more of the husband I wanted, not LBing me and meeting my ENs more. So maybe if you want more, spend more time getting to know what her LBs and ENs are so she becomes more receptive.

turnera

The best advice I can give is (1) learn her LBs and ENs and address that, and (2) think back to when you were dating or first married and she DID have a drive, and figure out what changed.

housefullofmen

Halo,
I used to feel the exact same way, I had NO sex drive for almost 6 yrs. I would however allow my husband to "work me up" from time to time. I had no problems having sex, once I was put in the "ON" position. I too used to wonder what was wrong with me, in the beginning of mine and the hubby's relationship, my sex drive rivaled his in ferocity. After our third child and meds for depression, I had no libido, I gained weight (which did not deter the hubby) and generally felt miserable about myself. I actually looked forward to my periods just to be left alone for a week! Hubby can't stand the thought of sex during that time, although that's when I wanted it.

Having said that, I recently lost weight and am feeling more confident about myself, I have a strong sex drive now, unfortunately the hubby is going through some sort of crisis (I have posted about this), and my re-discovered sex drive is going to waste.....

TX....It's great that your wife is willing to work on a solution for the two of you, hang in there! I know men get sick of hearing this, but sex drive for us women is more than hormones, it is affected by everything we do...

AmorousWarrior

Forgive me but I'm still new at this. What's LB's? I'm assuming EN's are emotional needs?
The biggest change from when we were dating? lol. We got married, had a baby, bought a house, she's graduated with her BA and MBA, new jobs. lol.

Alot of change.

turnera

OH, sorry, go to marriagebuilders.com for all that. It has a program you can follow to fix your marriage, which is really based on psychology - you stop Love Busting your spouse. That could be anything from leaving the toilet seat up to buyng a motorcycle without telling her. You learn your LBs (how you LB her) by having her fill out the LB questionnaire. Then you spend several months focusing on stopping all those LBs - it takes that long to break habits.

Then you ask her to fill out the Emotional Needs (EN) questionnaire so you know what her top 5 ENs are, so you can start meeting them. If you don't meet them, someone else will. For instance, if she needs conversation, and you never talk to her about stuff that's important to her, she may find herself on a chat room some day and get drawn into a conversation with some other guy who WILL talk to her about her stuff.

MEM11363

This is really good. Super honest. This is not about a lack of desire, it is full blown sexual aversion. Huge difference between the two. Lots of times my W had a lack of desire. During those times she "could" be aroused and have fun. She never had the "I dread having sex" thing going on. That is a valid and serious issue. That is NOT about a lack of desire. Trust me - I have had recent periods where I lack desire I know how that feels. I have luckily never had the "I dread sex thing".

Can you break it down? Can you sit down and think about WHY you have this aversion? What parts of the encounter feel bad/worse/worst? Is ANY of it pleasant?

Is he doing things outside the bedroom that turn you off/make you feel edgy/tense?

Maybe a MC can help, maybe you need a sex therapist.

In the realm of desire - honesty is king - if his weight is a problem or part of the problem you should tell him. Just be careful not to over emphasize stuff and leave other stuff out. The last thing you want is him to make a big effort and fix some things - but not resolve the problem. That will make most guys feel tricked....