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Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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Old 07-12-2010, 07:10 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Wink Re: Wife's not interested, I'm frustrated and feeling abandoned

first I'd like to give kudos to dbj1971...I'm a woman and completely agree with everything he said, what an excellent post.

I have never withheld sex from a partner for any reason, never believed in that kind of b.s. and have had many arguments with girlfriends who do exactly that to their boyfriends/husbands. So, when their partner cheats...my girlfriends know they won't get sympathy from me. You're courting disaster if you withhold sex to manipulate your partner for any reason.

Txhunter54, I'm in your situation currently. I've been with my husband for 12 years, married for 10 of them. I want it, he doesn't. He's 51, I'm 45. If I can offer another woman's perspective, when my desire for sex has decreased at different times in my life, I can honestly say it's when my partner wasn't particularly good at satisfying me. Roll on, roll off isn't satisfying.

Do you think your wife is too "shy" to tell you what you have to do to make her get off? If so, then that may be a place to start. If you can help her to feel she can direct you (for lack of a better way to say it) to touch here, lick there, etc, you could try to reinvent your sex life with her in that way. Start with a full body massage and when she's relaxed asked how you can touch her and where you can touch her or ask her to put your hand where it will make her feel good.

don't think that many years together would prevent a woman from developing a weird shyness about sex with her husband. It happens, I've been there (but thank God that passed !!!).

Self confidence plays a huge role in a woman's sexuality too. The most obvious example is if she's self-conscious about her looks...that can deflate her sex drive like a woman laughing at your erection would deflate yours. I can tell by your posts that you're kind and gentle with your wife and you can probably get a sense for how she sees herself by what she wears, how she carries herself in public, etc. Take a look at that, does she wear big, loose clothing? no makeup anymore? tries to avoid bringing attention upon herself? Maybe a make over or a class that bolsters her confidence is another option. If she starts feeling confident, she'll start feeling empowered and sexy again.
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:14 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Hi, I am new here. I came to this site because I am experiencing the exact same situation as the OP. Only from BorrowedHalo's side.

Why does anything have to be wrong with anybody? There is nothing 'wrong' with a man wanting sex every day. Equally, there is nothing 'wrong' with a woman never wanting sex. It just has to be figured out.

From my end of it, I would like to be able to cuddle, hug and show affection towards my husband without being expected to have sex. I would like to not always be put in the position of rejecting him. It is SO hard when I know it hurts his feelings. I am willing to have sex, BTW. I have told him we can have sex whenever he wants. But I have also told him that it is unrealistic to expect me, at 46 and after two kids and in the middle of the most stressful financial situation we have ever been in, to want to have exotic, wild sex every single night. I would rather play Scrabble. Or even Yahtzee. I feel like such a cow whenever I say no, or turn my head or slide away from him. But what else can I do? And we TALK. I HAVE talked about this. It does no good. Not twenty minutes ago he suggested we have sex because I woke him up because I am having insomnia. He is now back asleep, feelings hurt because I just smiled and drifted away. HELLO??? What part of "I can't sleep because I have been up trying to figure out how to pay the mortgage this month" doesn't he get? Seriously. Does that sound like some kind of code for "Let's have hot steamy sex"??

Yes, I KNOW he associates sex with love and comfort. I get it. I don't confuse sex with comfort. I oftentimes associate sex with another thing that somebody wants from me.

This is going to end our relationship if we can't figure it out. This man is the love of my life, the only person I have ever had sex with, the father of my children, my best friend and a good looking, athletic, SWEET guy. I do not want to lose him. I just don't want to have sex every day. EVERY SINGLE DAY. I want to have good sex once a week. Maybe.

Oh, and that whole "I would never withhold sex from my husband for any reason because I don't play those kind of games." is BS. You are telling me that EVERY SINGLE TIME your husband has approached you for sex, you have said yes? Right. And because you are willing to do this, you assume there is something wrong with someone who isn't?? Right again. Personally, I didn't sign up to be a sex slave. I signed up to be a life partner and my emotional needs are just as important as his physical ones. If you are willing to fall on your back every time your husband raises an eyebrow, good for you. Don't assume that because someone else does not do the same that THEY are the screwed up one.

On the other hand, BorrowedHalo, you (and I) are going to have to find some kind of middle ground on the sex thing. And 'never' is not middle ground. I do know that I have read that with women, sex is a 'use it or lose it' kind of thing. The longer you go, the longer you can go. You might try sitting him down and telling him how you feel and making a bargain with him. Figure out a couple of nights a week that you both agree would be good nights for sex. Then make him a deal. Explain that it is hard for you to feel sexy right now. Try to figure out something that would help. If it means that on those nights he puts the kids to bed and straightens up the kitchen while you take a long hot bath, try that. Drink a glass of wine. Hell, drink a BOTTLE of wine...whatever it takes to loosen you up enough to just get started. Play music, fantasize about whatever works for you, masturbate, whatever will put you in the mood and just DO IT. Recognize that this is part of how he knows you love him. Guys are so physical. Telling him really is NOT enough.

Or maybe try telling him that you promise to have sex X number of times a week, but you want to initiate it. (Only you do have to initiate it X times a week, no cheating.) This is less about what is fair blah blah blah, and more about not hurting someone you love and saving your marriage. It may feel like changing diapers at first (a necessary chore performed for someone you love because they need it done, but not your favorite thing), but give it a chance. You might find your libido waking back up. And good sex really is nice, isn't it? I know I am going to get flack for this, but you could also try faking it til you make it. That sounds ugly, but whatever works.

To the OP, get your wife talking or get counseling. Try writing her a letter. Tell her that you think she is the most beautiful woman in the world and she is all you want and you need to be close to her physically. Tell her that you are willing to go as slow as she needs to get things back on track. Work out a deal and then stick to it. If the arrangement starts with one day a week and she seems to enjoy that, don't assume that she will then want it the next day. She will probably just feel pressured and resentful.

I think I could honestly never have sex again and I would be OK. I also know that my husband gets itchy if he hasn't had sex in the last 24 hours. I love my husband. He is a good man and we suit in all other ways. So, I am going to get off the internet and see what kind of compromise we can come up with. Maybe at first neither one of us will be completely satisfied. But we will still be married and we will be trying.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:19 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wife's not interested, I'm frustrated and feeling abandoned

Usually issues like this are not isolated. Sometimes things can get to the point that every advance you make feels to her like a request for sex. So each and every time you try to hug and kiss her, it can feel like Oh No, here we go AGAIN.

If there is some underlying issue or resentment that is simmering over time on the back burner, then she won't feel loved and loving. Men can have sex despite not feeling loved it seems. Many women cannot.

I would recommend the book Passionate Marriage.

Passionate Marriage | PassionateMarriage
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:43 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wife's not interested, I'm frustrated and feeling abandoned

need2know...I should have been more specific. When I wrote about withholding sex, I meant the people who USE sex as a tool to get what they want from their partner, or as a punishment. Of course, there have been times when I'm not in the mood and my partner was....I just don't agree with people (usually women) who use sex or withholding sex as a manipulation of their partner....
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:20 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Our first counseling session is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:45 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Need2know, "fake it till you make it" does not work. All it does is make the "faking person" resent their partner. It definitely does not make you want to have sex more, thats for sure! Quite the opposite.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:07 AM   #82 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wife's not interested, I'm frustrated and feeling abandoned

N2K,
Very good post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by need2know View Post
Hi, I am new here. I came to this site because I am experiencing the exact same situation as the OP. Only from BorrowedHalo's side.

Why does anything have to be wrong with anybody? There is nothing 'wrong' with a man wanting sex every day. Equally, there is nothing 'wrong' with a woman never wanting sex. It just has to be figured out.

From my end of it, I would like to be able to cuddle, hug and show affection towards my husband without being expected to have sex. I would like to not always be put in the position of rejecting him. It is SO hard when I know it hurts his feelings. I am willing to have sex, BTW. I have told him we can have sex whenever he wants. But I have also told him that it is unrealistic to expect me, at 46 and after two kids and in the middle of the most stressful financial situation we have ever been in, to want to have exotic, wild sex every single night. I would rather play Scrabble. Or even Yahtzee. I feel like such a cow whenever I say no, or turn my head or slide away from him. But what else can I do? And we TALK. I HAVE talked about this. It does no good. Not twenty minutes ago he suggested we have sex because I woke him up because I am having insomnia. He is now back asleep, feelings hurt because I just smiled and drifted away. HELLO??? What part of "I can't sleep because I have been up trying to figure out how to pay the mortgage this month" doesn't he get? Seriously. Does that sound like some kind of code for "Let's have hot steamy sex"??

Yes, I KNOW he associates sex with love and comfort. I get it. I don't confuse sex with comfort. I oftentimes associate sex with another thing that somebody wants from me.

This is going to end our relationship if we can't figure it out. This man is the love of my life, the only person I have ever had sex with, the father of my children, my best friend and a good looking, athletic, SWEET guy. I do not want to lose him. I just don't want to have sex every day. EVERY SINGLE DAY. I want to have good sex once a week. Maybe.

Oh, and that whole "I would never withhold sex from my husband for any reason because I don't play those kind of games." is BS. You are telling me that EVERY SINGLE TIME your husband has approached you for sex, you have said yes? Right. And because you are willing to do this, you assume there is something wrong with someone who isn't?? Right again. Personally, I didn't sign up to be a sex slave. I signed up to be a life partner and my emotional needs are just as important as his physical ones. If you are willing to fall on your back every time your husband raises an eyebrow, good for you. Don't assume that because someone else does not do the same that THEY are the screwed up one.

On the other hand, BorrowedHalo, you (and I) are going to have to find some kind of middle ground on the sex thing. And 'never' is not middle ground. I do know that I have read that with women, sex is a 'use it or lose it' kind of thing. The longer you go, the longer you can go. You might try sitting him down and telling him how you feel and making a bargain with him. Figure out a couple of nights a week that you both agree would be good nights for sex. Then make him a deal. Explain that it is hard for you to feel sexy right now. Try to figure out something that would help. If it means that on those nights he puts the kids to bed and straightens up the kitchen while you take a long hot bath, try that. Drink a glass of wine. Hell, drink a BOTTLE of wine...whatever it takes to loosen you up enough to just get started. Play music, fantasize about whatever works for you, masturbate, whatever will put you in the mood and just DO IT. Recognize that this is part of how he knows you love him. Guys are so physical. Telling him really is NOT enough.

Or maybe try telling him that you promise to have sex X number of times a week, but you want to initiate it. (Only you do have to initiate it X times a week, no cheating.) This is less about what is fair blah blah blah, and more about not hurting someone you love and saving your marriage. It may feel like changing diapers at first (a necessary chore performed for someone you love because they need it done, but not your favorite thing), but give it a chance. You might find your libido waking back up. And good sex really is nice, isn't it? I know I am going to get flack for this, but you could also try faking it til you make it. That sounds ugly, but whatever works.

To the OP, get your wife talking or get counseling. Try writing her a letter. Tell her that you think she is the most beautiful woman in the world and she is all you want and you need to be close to her physically. Tell her that you are willing to go as slow as she needs to get things back on track. Work out a deal and then stick to it. If the arrangement starts with one day a week and she seems to enjoy that, don't assume that she will then want it the next day. She will probably just feel pressured and resentful.

I think I could honestly never have sex again and I would be OK. I also know that my husband gets itchy if he hasn't had sex in the last 24 hours. I love my husband. He is a good man and we suit in all other ways. So, I am going to get off the internet and see what kind of compromise we can come up with. Maybe at first neither one of us will be completely satisfied. But we will still be married and we will be trying.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:13 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wife's not interested, I'm frustrated and feeling abandoned

N2K,
Very good post. I hope you find a compromise that you both feel good about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by need2know View Post
Hi, I am new here. I came to this site because I am experiencing the exact same situation as the OP. Only from BorrowedHalo's side.

Why does anything have to be wrong with anybody? There is nothing 'wrong' with a man wanting sex every day. Equally, there is nothing 'wrong' with a woman never wanting sex. It just has to be figured out.

From my end of it, I would like to be able to cuddle, hug and show affection towards my husband without being expected to have sex. I would like to not always be put in the position of rejecting him. It is SO hard when I know it hurts his feelings. I am willing to have sex, BTW. I have told him we can have sex whenever he wants. But I have also told him that it is unrealistic to expect me, at 46 and after two kids and in the middle of the most stressful financial situation we have ever been in, to want to have exotic, wild sex every single night. I would rather play Scrabble. Or even Yahtzee. I feel like such a cow whenever I say no, or turn my head or slide away from him. But what else can I do? And we TALK. I HAVE talked about this. It does no good. Not twenty minutes ago he suggested we have sex because I woke him up because I am having insomnia. He is now back asleep, feelings hurt because I just smiled and drifted away. HELLO??? What part of "I can't sleep because I have been up trying to figure out how to pay the mortgage this month" doesn't he get? Seriously. Does that sound like some kind of code for "Let's have hot steamy sex"??

Yes, I KNOW he associates sex with love and comfort. I get it. I don't confuse sex with comfort. I oftentimes associate sex with another thing that somebody wants from me.

This is going to end our relationship if we can't figure it out. This man is the love of my life, the only person I have ever had sex with, the father of my children, my best friend and a good looking, athletic, SWEET guy. I do not want to lose him. I just don't want to have sex every day. EVERY SINGLE DAY. I want to have good sex once a week. Maybe.

Oh, and that whole "I would never withhold sex from my husband for any reason because I don't play those kind of games." is BS. You are telling me that EVERY SINGLE TIME your husband has approached you for sex, you have said yes? Right. And because you are willing to do this, you assume there is something wrong with someone who isn't?? Right again. Personally, I didn't sign up to be a sex slave. I signed up to be a life partner and my emotional needs are just as important as his physical ones. If you are willing to fall on your back every time your husband raises an eyebrow, good for you. Don't assume that because someone else does not do the same that THEY are the screwed up one.

On the other hand, BorrowedHalo, you (and I) are going to have to find some kind of middle ground on the sex thing. And 'never' is not middle ground. I do know that I have read that with women, sex is a 'use it or lose it' kind of thing. The longer you go, the longer you can go. You might try sitting him down and telling him how you feel and making a bargain with him. Figure out a couple of nights a week that you both agree would be good nights for sex. Then make him a deal. Explain that it is hard for you to feel sexy right now. Try to figure out something that would help. If it means that on those nights he puts the kids to bed and straightens up the kitchen while you take a long hot bath, try that. Drink a glass of wine. Hell, drink a BOTTLE of wine...whatever it takes to loosen you up enough to just get started. Play music, fantasize about whatever works for you, masturbate, whatever will put you in the mood and just DO IT. Recognize that this is part of how he knows you love him. Guys are so physical. Telling him really is NOT enough.

Or maybe try telling him that you promise to have sex X number of times a week, but you want to initiate it. (Only you do have to initiate it X times a week, no cheating.) This is less about what is fair blah blah blah, and more about not hurting someone you love and saving your marriage. It may feel like changing diapers at first (a necessary chore performed for someone you love because they need it done, but not your favorite thing), but give it a chance. You might find your libido waking back up. And good sex really is nice, isn't it? I know I am going to get flack for this, but you could also try faking it til you make it. That sounds ugly, but whatever works.

To the OP, get your wife talking or get counseling. Try writing her a letter. Tell her that you think she is the most beautiful woman in the world and she is all you want and you need to be close to her physically. Tell her that you are willing to go as slow as she needs to get things back on track. Work out a deal and then stick to it. If the arrangement starts with one day a week and she seems to enjoy that, don't assume that she will then want it the next day. She will probably just feel pressured and resentful.

I think I could honestly never have sex again and I would be OK. I also know that my husband gets itchy if he hasn't had sex in the last 24 hours. I love my husband. He is a good man and we suit in all other ways. So, I am going to get off the internet and see what kind of compromise we can come up with. Maybe at first neither one of us will be completely satisfied. But we will still be married and we will be trying.
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:09 PM   #84 (permalink)
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There have been so many good points made by the men and women on this thread. In fact, as a man, it is remarkable how insightful and intuitive the comments from women have been about men, and I hope the ladies feel the same way by what the men have said. For all the jokes in society about the sexes not understanding each other, when we just sit down and think, it turns out we understand each other fairly well a lot of times. Wonder of wonders, we find how much we have in common. I also understand this isn't just a "man wants sex, woman doesn't" thing; there have been other threads where it is reversed - the woman is frustrated because she wants sex and the man doesn't.

Unless I misunderstood, I believe someone in an earlier post to this thread tried to equate a man raping someone with a husband's legitimate desire (and expectation) to have intimate relations with his wife. I don't even think you're comparing apples and oranges there; it's more like trying to compare cyanide with apples. And it is my understanding that men who rape don't do it out of sexual desire but for some other psychotic reason (like hatred of women, desire to control/dominate another person, etc.). That comparison sounds like the same, tired "all men are animals," "all they do is think about sex," drone. If the poor dude just wants to make love to his unresponsive wife, that puts him in the same conversation as a rapist?? Not in a million years.

At the risk of sounding argumentative, and that is not my intention at all, I have decided to respond to some other poster's remarks one at a time. To tunera, it is not another person's "job" to meet the intimacy needs of your husband. Did you get married to him, or did you just agree to live together and help share the bills and household duties like Jack and Janet and Chrissy on "Three's Company?" You married him. Sexual intimacy is one of the few (if not only) things you share exclusively (hopefully) with your spouse. If he or she is attractive, or is a good cook, or is talented or gifted in some way, other people get to enjoy those attributes. Not to reduce it all just to the physical, but sexual intimacy is one of the things that makes you each other's wife/husband. It's a time when you have shut out all the rest of the world and just focus on each other.

AmorousWarrior made an excellent (among many) point when he stated that a person should not take the easy way out. That's one of reasons I said maturity is so necessary; the right way is not always the easy or shortest way, but often takes a lot of effort or time. It's human nature to take the easy way out, and so someone without the maturity to rise above that, to go beyond selfishness, will not put forth the effort necessary.

Marriage is a complete package agreement. Sex is an essential component of it. It is not a mere side perk. While no one has a right to demand sex of their spouse, neither does either one have a right to always deny it (and only having sex once or twice every two months is virtually "always," so let's not get off track splitting hairs). Which brings me to my next point: Why is the focus on "he/she wants/demands and now I must give?" You both should want it. You won't always both be in the same mood or desire level at the moment, but the general desire should never be absent completely, even on nights when you really can't or aren't in the mood at all.

I want to be respectful and delicate, but straight on this point. While there are some medically verified cases of actual clinicial frigidity in a very small percentage of women, and to those are my deepest understanding and compassion, I have to wonder about the rest of the women who say they could take or leave sex. This is a rhetorical question, but have you ever truly had an orgasm in sex? I can't believe that you could have an earth-shaking, mind-blowing, rock-my-world orgasm and then be ambivalent (could take it or leave it) about it. It's like people who compare sex to food (ie, "better-than-sex cake"). Yeah, right. It makes me wonder what type of sub-par sex those poor souls have suffered to even put a piece of food on the same level. Like I said in my first post, DO something. Some of you ladies, especially in your forties, fifties, or older (it can also happen in your thirties) have lower estrogen levens due to premenopause or the onset of it. Your whole mood and outlook on life, including sexual desire, could be improved with estrogen replacement therapy. Take a look at what Dr. James Dobson and others have to say about this. It's remarkable. Even if you don't subscribe to Dr. Dobson's religious views, he is an excellent source on strictly medical terms alone.

Also, the fact that people are even talking on here about cheating (wishing their spouse would find an outside outlet or wishing their spouse would tell them they could find one) supports my point that even a person who would not otherwise stray may eventually get to the point of "stealing to get food" so to speak. As hard as it may be for some people to understand, sexual intimacy is a basic need, not just a desire. More generally, human touch is a basic human need. I don't think there's a legitimate doctor or psychologist alive who disputes that. What deeper, more meaningful, more intimate touch can their be between husband and wife in sex?

Carron36 - excellent points! Need2know - I appreciate your post and wanted to make the point that NEVER wanting sex is indicative of something wrong. People can debate that all day. Is the new marriage agreement of the 21st Century to get married, share the house, share duties, but get a girlfriend, bud, because our bed's only for sleeping? Ladies who think that, do you realize that sex isn't just physical to a man? Do you realize that anyone who meets the needs of a person makes deposits into what Dr. Harley calls that person's love bank? Allowing another person to meet his sexual needs means that eventually his heart may start going to that person also. It's not definite, but could happen. Do you want to take that chance? Also, to think that way is revealing -- do you consider sex to be just physical? If so, you need a more mature view of sex on all its levels (physical, emotional, mental, even spiritual).

Also, for Need2know and others, if your husband is so good-looking, sexy, talented, a great catch, etc. (and I'm not doubting you), then why in God's name don't you want the man to make love to you? Like I said, all other kind words ring hollow when action doesn't follow. My dad once said, don't pay so much attention to what people say as to what they do. If I'm a husband being told I'm good-looking, great guy, etc, but you (wife) don't ever want me sexually, I'm going to start thinking you're blowing smoke or shooting bull. Plus, if he's really that hot and you aren't giving him what he needs, he's probably got women falling all over him. Sure, he shouldn't give in to temptation no matter what, and should keep his vows, but don't miss the point -- you should not push him to the brink of having to face such an excruciating decision/temptation. Guys think about sex a lot, regardless, it's just the way we are and I don't apologize for it. Besides, if we didn't, none of you (or I) would exist. But if a man's satisfied with what he's getting at home, he's not going to be looking for outside dalliances, generally speaking. Sure, there are always exceptions - the selfish, immature jerk who cheats no matter what - but then, there are reprobates in both sexes. We're talking about the vast majority of real men and women here, so stay with me. To use a car anology (and no, I'm not in any way comparing women or people to things - it's just to make a point): If a man has a Lamborghini in his garage, he's not going to be so tempted to steal a ride in someone's nice-looking econony car.

Play with fire, and you might get burned. Deny sex to the one you supposedly love so much and pledged to, and risk him or her straying, or at the very least silently seething with frustration, self-doubt, gradually diminishing confidence, etc.

When I hear a woman say she could be content with never having sex again, I have pity. If you have been raped or abused, there are issues to work through. Chances are you aren't one of the very small percentage of women who are truly frigid. There's one sure-fire way to tell: Can you orgams through self-stimulation? If so, you're not clinically frigid. It's time to deal with what our real problems are, and not just say, "I'm okay with no sex; don't expect it; take it or leave it." He just might take you up on that offer.
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:48 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Many of the guys who are in low sex/no sex marriages and are physically "attractive" seem to have lost sight of the short list of serious turn offs for a woman. And these have nothing to do with helping out around the house or with the kids (they do) or being romantic (often they are WAY too romantic). And mostly these are behaviors their wives clearly don't like but the men either can't or won't change them:
- Being overly emotional (no one wants a robot - but MOST women are sexually turned off by a man who is as emotional/more emotional than they are)

The guys say "but that is just how I feel". And the ugly reality is that if you cannot mask a lot of your fears, anxieties, inappropriate anger, bad moods etc. you are going to kill her desire for you. And "projecting" an emotion via body language and then denying it or refusing to talk about it is even worse. Now she knows you are upset and doesn't even know why.

This overly emotional stuff also frequently manifests as being "needy" which is a specific type of passion killer.

"Fighting" about lots of stupid stuff and ending up apologizing all the time. Letting your anger take control even when you are right - causing you to say stupid/hurtful things and end up apologizing even though she was in the wrong to start.

"Whining" - a side effect of being overly emotional. Women associate whining with children - this turns their desire switch OFF. Calmly saying "that is not acceptable - followed by some specific behaviors that convey you are serious - is not whining" It is being assertive. Women are experts at telling the difference between "you hurt my feelings - I am going to sulk" and "I am not going to tolerate that - I am going to steadily deprioritize you if you continue to act like that". And much of this is best done with clear body language and a bare minimum number of words.

A half hour of whining is totally counterproductive. The opposite of that is the single sentence "That is not acceptable to me, and you would NOT like it if I did that to you" followed by however long a silence it takes for her to come to her senses.

A lack of initiative/passivity. The implied message that you are a victim.

NOT LISTENING. And I mean REALLY LISTENING. If you send her a loving text and get no response - sending her two more similar messages is BAD. Crowding someone with more love and attention than they want is a lust killer. This isn't about you loving HER, it is about your NEED for her to express HER love for YOU. When you do something see how she reacts. With many women a big part of their reaction is either tone of voice or body language. Or the utter lack of any reaction.

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Originally Posted by dbj1971 View Post
There have been so many good points made by the men and women on this thread. In fact, as a man, it is remarkable how insightful and intuitive the comments from women have been about men, and I hope the ladies feel the same way by what the men have said. For all the jokes in society about the sexes not understanding each other, when we just sit down and think, it turns out we understand each other fairly well a lot of times. Wonder of wonders, we find how much we have in common. I also understand this isn't just a "man wants sex, woman doesn't" thing; there have been other threads where it is reversed - the woman is frustrated because she wants sex and the man doesn't.

Unless I misunderstood, I believe someone in an earlier post to this thread tried to equate a man raping someone with a husband's legitimate desire (and expectation) to have intimate relations with his wife. I don't even think you're comparing apples and oranges there; it's more like trying to compare cyanide with apples. And it is my understanding that men who rape don't do it out of sexual desire but for some other psychotic reason (like hatred of women, desire to control/dominate another person, etc.). That comparison sounds like the same, tired "all men are animals," "all they do is think about sex," drone. If the poor dude just wants to make love to his unresponsive wife, that puts him in the same conversation as a rapist?? Not in a million years.

At the risk of sounding argumentative, and that is not my intention at all, I have decided to respond to some other poster's remarks one at a time. To tunera, it is not another person's "job" to meet the intimacy needs of your husband. Did you get married to him, or did you just agree to live together and help share the bills and household duties like Jack and Janet and Chrissy on "Three's Company?" You married him. Sexual intimacy is one of the few (if not only) things you share exclusively (hopefully) with your spouse. If he or she is attractive, or is a good cook, or is talented or gifted in some way, other people get to enjoy those attributes. Not to reduce it all just to the physical, but sexual intimacy is one of the things that makes you each other's wife/husband. It's a time when you have shut out all the rest of the world and just focus on each other.

AmorousWarrior made an excellent (among many) point when he stated that a person should not take the easy way out. That's one of reasons I said maturity is so necessary; the right way is not always the easy or shortest way, but often takes a lot of effort or time. It's human nature to take the easy way out, and so someone without the maturity to rise above that, to go beyond selfishness, will not put forth the effort necessary.

Marriage is a complete package agreement. Sex is an essential component of it. It is not a mere side perk. While no one has a right to demand sex of their spouse, neither does either one have a right to always deny it (and only having sex once or twice every two months is virtually "always," so let's not get off track splitting hairs). Which brings me to my next point: Why is the focus on "he/she wants/demands and now I must give?" You both should want it. You won't always both be in the same mood or desire level at the moment, but the general desire should never be absent completely, even on nights when you really can't or aren't in the mood at all.

I want to be respectful and delicate, but straight on this point. While there are some medically verified cases of actual clinicial frigidity in a very small percentage of women, and to those are my deepest understanding and compassion, I have to wonder about the rest of the women who say they could take or leave sex. This is a rhetorical question, but have you ever truly had an orgasm in sex? I can't believe that you could have an earth-shaking, mind-blowing, rock-my-world orgasm and then be ambivalent (could take it or leave it) about it. It's like people who compare sex to food (ie, "better-than-sex cake"). Yeah, right. It makes me wonder what type of sub-par sex those poor souls have suffered to even put a piece of food on the same level. Like I said in my first post, DO something. Some of you ladies, especially in your forties, fifties, or older (it can also happen in your thirties) have lower estrogen levens due to premenopause or the onset of it. Your whole mood and outlook on life, including sexual desire, could be improved with estrogen replacement therapy. Take a look at what Dr. James Dobson and others have to say about this. It's remarkable. Even if you don't subscribe to Dr. Dobson's religious views, he is an excellent source on strictly medical terms alone.

Also, the fact that people are even talking on here about cheating (wishing their spouse would find an outside outlet or wishing their spouse would tell them they could find one) supports my point that even a person who would not otherwise stray may eventually get to the point of "stealing to get food" so to speak. As hard as it may be for some people to understand, sexual intimacy is a basic need, not just a desire. More generally, human touch is a basic human need. I don't think there's a legitimate doctor or psychologist alive who disputes that. What deeper, more meaningful, more intimate touch can their be between husband and wife in sex?

Carron36 - excellent points! Need2know - I appreciate your post and wanted to make the point that NEVER wanting sex is indicative of something wrong. People can debate that all day. Is the new marriage agreement of the 21st Century to get married, share the house, share duties, but get a girlfriend, bud, because our bed's only for sleeping? Ladies who think that, do you realize that sex isn't just physical to a man? Do you realize that anyone who meets the needs of a person makes deposits into what Dr. Harley calls that person's love bank? Allowing another person to meet his sexual needs means that eventually his heart may start going to that person also. It's not definite, but could happen. Do you want to take that chance? Also, to think that way is revealing -- do you consider sex to be just physical? If so, you need a more mature view of sex on all its levels (physical, emotional, mental, even spiritual).

Also, for Need2know and others, if your husband is so good-looking, sexy, talented, a great catch, etc. (and I'm not doubting you), then why in God's name don't you want the man to make love to you? Like I said, all other kind words ring hollow when action doesn't follow. My dad once said, don't pay so much attention to what people say as to what they do. If I'm a husband being told I'm good-looking, great guy, etc, but you (wife) don't ever want me sexually, I'm going to start thinking you're blowing smoke or shooting bull. Plus, if he's really that hot and you aren't giving him what he needs, he's probably got women falling all over him. Sure, he shouldn't give in to temptation no matter what, and should keep his vows, but don't miss the point -- you should not push him to the brink of having to face such an excruciating decision/temptation. Guys think about sex a lot, regardless, it's just the way we are and I don't apologize for it. Besides, if we didn't, none of you (or I) would exist. But if a man's satisfied with what he's getting at home, he's not going to be looking for outside dalliances, generally speaking. Sure, there are always exceptions - the selfish, immature jerk who cheats no matter what - but then, there are reprobates in both sexes. We're talking about the vast majority of real men and women here, so stay with me. To use a car anology (and no, I'm not in any way comparing women or people to things - it's just to make a point): If a man has a Lamborghini in his garage, he's not going to be so tempted to steal a ride in someone's nice-looking econony car.

Play with fire, and you might get burned. Deny sex to the one you supposedly love so much and pledged to, and risk him or her straying, or at the very least silently seething with frustration, self-doubt, gradually diminishing confidence, etc.

When I hear a woman say she could be content with never having sex again, I have pity. If you have been raped or abused, there are issues to work through. Chances are you aren't one of the very small percentage of women who are truly frigid. There's one sure-fire way to tell: Can you orgams through self-stimulation? If so, you're not clinically frigid. It's time to deal with what our real problems are, and not just say, "I'm okay with no sex; don't expect it; take it or leave it." He just might take you up on that offer.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:10 PM   #86 (permalink)
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MEM11363,

Your post is very helpful and right-on! I don't know anyone who could have said it better. Men, take note. There is some excellent, I mean EXCELLENT, advice here by MEM. It's stuff you probably have never heard from your sister, mother, wife, or anyone one else, even well-meaning female friends. But it is the utter and simple truth. Disregard it at your own peril. I am not going overboard here with praise. I mean, you hit a grand slam with that post!

MEM, just with that post you have my respect and admiration. I mean it. I appreciate you telling it like it is, even if it may be a hard pill for some men to swallow. We all need it. Thank God for the no-frills, cut-through-all-the bull, good advice like this!

Amen.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:57 PM   #87 (permalink)
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DB,
Thanks for the feedback. This is not "I read a relationship book and here is my summary". This is: I am in year 21 of a happy marriage with a great (funny, smart, TOUGH, strong willed - and occasionally difficult) wife and this is a big part of why things have worked well for us.



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MEM11363,

Your post is very helpful and right-on! I don't know anyone who could have said it better. Men, take note. There is some excellent, I mean EXCELLENT, advice here by MEM. It's stuff you probably have never heard from your sister, mother, wife, or anyone one else, even well-meaning female friends. But it is the utter and simple truth. Disregard it at your own peril. I am not going overboard here with praise. I mean, you hit a grand slam with that post!

MEM, just with that post you have my respect and admiration. I mean it. I appreciate you telling it like it is, even if it may be a hard pill for some men to swallow. We all need it. Thank God for the no-frills, cut-through-all-the bull, good advice like this!

Amen.
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:56 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wife's not interested, I'm frustrated and feeling abandoned

>>NOT LISTENING. And I mean REALLY LISTENING. If you send her a loving text and get no response - sending her two more similar messages is BAD. Crowding someone with more love and attention than they want is a lust killer. This isn't about you loving HER, it is about your NEED for her to express HER love for YOU. When you do something see how she reacts. With many women a big part of their reaction is either tone of voice or body language. Or the utter lack of any reaction.<<

Can I get a big HIGH FIVE for Brother MEM!! YES, that is exactly what I go through. I LOVE him, but I cannot stand to be smothered by him. I know that he is feeling this financial crunch most likely much more than I am. I really do understand that he is feeling a little threatened in the He-Man-Taking-Care-of-the-Family department. But I am feeling a little freaked out on the Mom-Holding-Everything-Together-and-Figuring-Out-How-To-Feed-and-Clothe-Two-Teenagers-On-A-Broken-Shoestring front. The more stress we have, the more he wants sex and the more I just want to be left alone. And I have two kids. I don't really need another one right now.

In reply to the 'fake it or make it' comment: I have some clarification to make. For me, and I can only speak for myself, there are times when I don't really feel like sex, but I start off pretending like I am really into it. Almost always, somewhere along the line I actually DO get into it. Yes, that can get old. So it probably shouldn't be the ONLY way you have sex. But sometimes you have to be like the Nike commercial and JUST DO IT.


Made a deal with my husband today. We are going to start doing some things differently. We used to go on dates, but since he lost his small business, I have felt too guilty to spend money just on us. After talking to him today, I realized that is a mistake. So, instead of a nice steak house and a play or full price movie, we are going to do Showmars and a matinee a couple of times a month. And we are planning to do our first just-us date in almost eight months this Thursday (the movie is only $5 on Thursdays). We are planning to really talk about some things over dinner. And he even asked me if I would like to go camping! We haven't been camping just the two of us since before the kids were born. We used to go all the time when we were broke and dating. Well, now we are broke and married and I *think* we are going to go camping for a weekend soon. I am ridiculously excited about the prospect.

Thanks for having this forum and this open discussion. Reading other peoples comments made me realize how long I had let this go and how big a deal it had become between us. It seems so silly now how resentful I was and how hurt he was just fourteen hours ago. We are going to have to remember that the relationship comes first. Everything else (money, kids, etc) is secondary.
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:01 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wife's not interested, I'm frustrated and feeling abandoned

BTW, DBJ...I not only have frequent orgasms, I am capable of multiple orgasms. Women just aren't like men. Sometimes even having an orgasm seems a lot less like a release and a lot more like a responsibility. I am not sure what triggers sexual desire in men, I just know that the smallest things can both turn me on and turn me off. I think a lot of women invest a lot of emotion in sex and when you are stressed out all day, sex just seems like too much.

And I never said I would tolerate my husband getting a girlfriend, which is why I recognize that we are going to have to figure something out about sex.
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:39 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Need2know, "fake it till you make it" does not work. All it does is make the "faking person" resent their partner. It definitely does not make you want to have sex more, thats for sure! Quite the opposite.
That is not always the case. That is EXACTLY what I did after the birth of our first child when I was exhausted and my drive had tanked. It went on long enough I thought it was important for BOTH of us to do something about it. I discussed it with him, asked for very soft and sensual lovemaking and defer wild and crazy stuff. We had a lovely time reconnecting with each other until eventually parenting leveled off and my drive returned.
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