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Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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Old 02-14-2014, 09:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
jld
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Default Kink

I would like to talk about this. Specifically, I am talking to people who enjoy this as a lifestyle, who basically have probably an inborn need for it, who have been kinky since early childhood, or at least as long as they can remember.

I am not really talking about bedroom games, with an equal relationship outside the sex chamber, though I think thoughts from anyone should be considered. We all have learned things in life, and someone who isn't like this could still have helpful information to offer.

So, I have been kinky ever since I can remember, and it is not going away, anymore than my height or the color of my eyes.

But I married a man who is not kinky. And while he enjoys that I am, and certainly benefits from it, he is not naturally this way himself, and I think it is a kind of mismatch.

But I am not giving up this relationship. We have been together for nearly 21 years, and he is just a great guy, in every way. I have just had too many women over time tell me he is a great guy to prioritize kink over the general relationship.

But this need for more does not go away. And I want to find a way to probably up dh's willingness to do more, even though it is not something he needs.

I can just talk to him about it, and that might work. He really does love me, and he will listen, and somewhat act, to some extent. But he does read these boards, and I think posting about it, and maybe getting some input from other posters, will make more of an impression on him than just my talking to him.

My real concern is that throughout the marriage, I have been attracted to other men, and I don't like that. My dh is a wonderful guy, and I feel like that energy should go to him.

I know many people feel that attraction to other people is normal, and to some extent it is, but I don't feel right about it. I feel like 100% of me should go to my dh. I really feel I should be 100% dedicated to him, and subsequently, to our children. That just feels right to me.

I know he appreciates this, but sometimes I think it has been used against me. I need to matter, too. And that is where I don't know where the balance is.

I used to have temper tantrums around kink. I would beg him to make this a priority, because I am not going to go outside of the marriage to get it. He is really my only way to get it, to feel his power, and for many years he always said no, the kids would hear. And I understood this, and of course want what is best for the kids, too, and so would blow up, apologize, and put it off until the next blowup.

He did always say that when the kids got older, there would be more opportunity. And that is true. We can be together in this way more now than before. But we have another 13 years before we are empty nesters. I will be 56 and he 59. I don't really want to wait that long.

I think the real problem, though, is that it is not a need for him. He enjoys it, he certainly loves the power, but it is not a need. He does not feel frustrated when it is not fulfilled. I think he feels very satisfied in his type and level of dominance.

I grew up in a dysfunctional home filled with dominant men. I hated my dad and couldn't wait to get away from him. And yet, I am naturally attracted, to some extent, to abusers. I don't think I would have stayed with an abuser, but I am attracted to them.

So having dh, this upstanding young French executive, who at one point had considered the priesthood, just to serve the poor, and who just exuded (and still exudes) goodness, tell me one day 21 years ago that he loved me, kind of shocked me. He is a genuinely good guy, genuinely secure. In my opinion, truly a liberated man. He could be really happy in an equal marriage. Or could have been before he was with me. Now he probably could not. He's spoiled.

I cannot deny him, and I don't just mean sexually. I feel like the whole point of my life is to please him, to make him happy in every way. I feel really bad when I do not please him completely. And he tells me regularly how much he "enjoys" me and how "fully satisfied" he is with me. So I know I am doing more or less a good job, according to his requirements.

Harmony in the marriage, and subsequently in the family, is the number one priority in my life, and there is almost nothing I will not do to maintain it. I think I am an INFP, according to the Myers-Briggs test. Can you tell?

But I would like to feel the same way as I make dh feel, and I think not feeling attracted to other men would be a good gauge.

Dh, I know you are reading. What are you willing to do? How much of a priority are you willing to make me? How much do you care?

Fellow readers, have you experienced something like this? Is this too taboo of a subject to talk about? Surely someone else out there has dealt with this, too. I would appreciate your input.

I'm not really asking for any one specific thing or act or practice from dh. I really just want more of a general openness and subsequent commitment to action. I don't think I even have one particular thing in mind, just an overall attitude.

Last thing: Where there is a will, there is a way. Dh told me for years we could not go out to dinner alone together. We always had to take the kids. I would ask to have a babysitter, and it was always no, the kids need to be with us, they need their parents.

Well, one day his boss asked him for us to have dinner with him the next day. All of a sudden, dh found the names of two babysitters.

I was stunned. When I had asked, repeatedly, over the years, it was just not possible, he didn't know any sittters, the kids needed us, blah blah blah. But when his boss wanted something, my gosh, it was going to happen.

I guess I would just like to be the priority his work is, at least some of the time.

Kind of scared to post this, but here goes.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kink

1. Getting out with out the kids MUST be a regular and frequent priority!

2. Getting away for a weekend, or in your case a full week, needs to be a regular priority!

In terms of kink, my H is more worried about the kids then I am. I always wonder if he would feel differently if we had sons in the house as opposed to daughters...

You could alter your home or bedroom. Insulate your bedroom for noise control, move you bedroom to another part of the home to ensure more privacy so you have the freedom to fly your freak flag!

When you've got a freak flag, it's important to fly as often as possible. How often? Depends on what you need. Just like men get bored with sex in the same position following the same routine, those with a freak flag in the closet need to get it up that pole on a regular basis!

So yeah, step it up Mr JLD!
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kink

Thanks a lot, AP. If there is anything I have learned here, it is that you have to accept who you are, completely. You can't let what other people think, or what society teaches, or whatever, get in your way. We are who we are, and our happiness comes from accepting that.

I am sure he will read this, and I really appreciate your response.

Last Sat. all four boys went to the movies. That gave us 2 hours together. That was nice, not having to leave the house. Sometimes I feel like we are fugitives from our children.

We have talked about going somewhere next month. I don't know if it will be for a whole week, or where. But dh seems pretty into it. He just works so much, you know? He is in Germany right now, and so we are just, again, having limited communication time due to time differences. I am heading off with the boys to see dd18 this weekend, so we will lose some connection time today, too.

At least I do matter to him. Maybe I don't get everything I want, but the relationship is basically sound. It is actually a good foundation for pursuing something even deeper. I just want to make sure we both understand how important this is. You have contributed to that, and I am sure he will listen. Thanks.
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One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kink

Number two above, should read "getting away without the kids.....
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Lol, AP. We got the message.
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One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:28 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I am concerned that you feel attraction to other men sometimes, in combination with not getting your needs met to your satisfaction. That is kinda dangerous.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I know, FW, and that is the point of this post. I don't really think I would do that, and he is sure I wouldn't. But I just think that energy that goes into even unintended attraction should be going to dh, and could go to him, and will go to him, when he turns away from his business e-mails and really looks at me, and really listens to me when I talk about it, and takes it as seriously as meeting his department's savings directives for the year. I just don't think it is optional.

I know he is going to read this today. I am headed out for several hours, but I know seeing this all posted here is going to make an impression on him. Thanks, FW.
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One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kink

I understand...and it isn't that you will suddenly jump up and screw some other man. But there is something you are wanting from your H, and other men will slide in there to try to fill those needs if you aren't careful. Especially on the dominance stuff. If it would thrill you to hear even the simplest instruction from a man, you are in dangerous water. Whereas I think if your H stepped in a bit more on this, you wouldn't be as vulnerable.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Yes, well I had mr. jld ranked a bit higher than that.

Your needs are as important as the kids needs.

We had babysitters many times when I was young and I do not feel abused by not having my parents there constantly. In fact I am probably better for it.

My wife does not have a kinky bone in her body as far as I can tell. I wish she did. I am pretty mild myself but it is very difficult to reign myself in completely. Particularly for anyone who suspects that we only get one chance to live you do not want to feel like you are missing out on life and having to give away part of yourself is a hard sacrifice.

Sorry I am in the camp who thinks that thinking of other people is hard wired into our brains. It is not a real choice. All we do have is the ability for self control.

You seem to me to be a rational person who is in control. For rational people kinks are just games that keep their minds young and active.

How often are you talking about if you could have sex tailored to you once a month would that be enough?
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by usmarriedguy View Post
How often are you talking about if you could have sex tailored to you once a month would that be enough?
That wouldn't be enough for me. 2-3 times a month to fly the freak flag would do it. I guess it depends on how you express that freak flag, and does the freak flag always have to be expressed explicitly during sex, and if sometimes it can be expressed on the DL and other times pull out all the stops... But for me, 2-3 times on the DL...I can live with that.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Poor dh. It's not that he's not dominant. He probably is moreso than some men that seem to call themselves dominants. And he is not selfish about it.

But you're right, that something is not adequate. But I am afraid some of that is an imprint from my own father and brothers, and that was really unhealthy. Healthy D/s is kind of hard to achieve, I think.

I feel lucky to be with a healthy man, and a man who will listen. But he needs motivation to listen.

I think he is just more easily satisfied than I am. Again, he is not naturally kinky. He just enjoys having a kinky wife. It all works out great for him, you know? I think he sensed it right away when he met me.

Thanks again, FW. You are an incredible resource.
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One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kink

I agree with AP and FW.

This needs to be a priority for your H. I am very good friends with a couple that sounds like you.

He is a very good, upstanding, and hard working man. She is a barbarian. She loves her husband but is attracted to bad boys. In the first two years of their marriage, she cheated on him 2 or 3 times and left him for a bad boy.

They are reconciled now 6 years, but she is still frustrated with his nice Guy routine in and out of the bedroom. It is something I have tried very hard to convey to him, I am definitely a "bad" boy, but he really struggled with it and never puts it as a priority.

I am afraid that she might go outside their marriage again or just leave him. Her frustration is palpable.
To make matters worse, she is sometimes painfully polite around me and always has to follow up a compliment to me with an explanation that she loves me like a brother.

Nothing would ever happen with us but it sucks that she can't relax when they are visiting more.

Not saying you would ever cheat but living in tense frustration sucks.

I hope your husband can make some peace with his dark side, we all have one, and let "him" out once in a while to scratch your itch.
Best wishes.
BTW. My wife is a lady in all aspects but after foreplay and some warm up sex, she loves being devoured by "him" and is extremely fulfilled when I let "him" out to totally take her. She likes riding the storm.

Smiles.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Yes, well I had mr. jld ranked a bit higher than that.

Your needs are as important as the kids needs.

We had babysitters many times when I was young and I do not feel abused by not having my parents there constantly. In fact I am probably better for it.

My wife does not have a kinky bone in her body as far as I can tell. I wish she did. I am pretty mild myself but it is very difficult to reign myself in completely. Particularly for anyone who suspects that we only get one chance to live you do not want to feel like you are missing out on life and having to give away part of yourself is a hard sacrifice.

Sorry I am in the camp who thinks that thinking of other people is hard wired into our brains. It is not a real choice. All we do have is the ability for self control.

You seem to me to be a rational person who is in control. For rational people kinks are just games that keep their minds young and active.

How often are you talking about if you could have sex tailored to you once a month would that be enough?
How do you live with a non-kinky wife if you are kinky? How can you stand that? You are much less demanding than I am.

No, once a month is not even close to enough.

It's hard to even talk accurately about this, because it is kind of a cloud in my mind.

I am kinky. This is how I live. This is how I think. That first sentence of yours, for example, really hurts my feelings. I just take any criticism of dh so personally. It probably isn't very rational. And I am sorry to be so sensitive. It is my problem.

I think there must be a difference between natural male dominance and kinky dominance.

Early on in our relationship, I got mad at dh and went into our bedroom and locked the door. I flopped on the bed and started to read.

Next thing I knew, he was picking the lock! And the look in his eyes when he opened the door. He came right at me and I knew he was planning to rape me.

But when he got to me and started pulling my clothes off, I felt excited. And I am not even one to have rape fantasies. And I helped him take my clothes off. So it didn't even end up being rape. And he stopped to put on a condom, because he knew I didn't want to be pregnant at 23.

To me, that is natural male dominance. To others, it is rape, I guess. But I think that is different than kinky dominance. And I don't even know if I can explain it.

He expects compliance, but he certainly takes his knowledge of me into account. But because I am basically responsible and trustworthy, I am left to just manage on my own most of the time.

I think I probably just need more attention, and he needs to be more demanding. And we both need some time to just us, and not our children.
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One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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@CH: I am not now or ever leaving my husband, or going to have an affair. I am transparent with him and tell him immediately when I feel attracted to another man. But I do need more. I need to be a priority.

We have a contractor who, along with his crews, did most of the work on our home. And ds14 mentioned to me one day that he noticed I always got really excited when he came to our house, and that he always looked really excited to see me, too. I'm not going to have an affair with the contractor. But yes, it worries me a little that I seem to fit more naturally with some men than with my dh. He is so smart and such a good person, but I feel like he lives on a higher plane than I do. And I feel kind of ridiculous sometimes for not relating better to him.

It just pains me to admit these things. But I think the point of an internet forum is to say things we cannot easily say in our own lives. And dh is reading this. He called me a little bit ago and I asked him to. I still don't think he is worried, though. He tells me I have a big imagination. But that imagination is not being used the right way. And that is the point of this: to show dh that I need to be a priority. And even if he does not need it, I do.

And I do feel a bit bad for saying all this. Dh does more than a lot of men, and he is naturally secure. No passive aggressive BS. He doesn't care if I get mad. His core is not shaken. He does not seek me out; I am always going to him. He is a natural loner. And I really do belong to him. I can't see myself without him.

I wasn't able to talk in real life about these things before joining TAM and the social group for it here. Talking with people like FW and AP has been helpful. They know a lot and I don't feel so strange. I tried to talk to a few friends about it a decade ago, and one doesn't even speak to me anymore. And one just laughed at me like crazy.

I look like a very normal person. And we have a happy, loving marriage with happy kids. And dh is more of a leader than a lot of guys. But yes, I think, maybe from what I grew up with, maybe from the intensity of my personality, I just need to see the inner beast more. And it is there. I have felt it. I can tell you, I have definitely felt it. But the conditions need to be there, too. All needs to be worked on. Which is why I am posting.
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One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:42 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
That wouldn't be enough for me. 2-3 times a month to fly the freak flag would do it. I guess it depends on how you express that freak flag, and does the freak flag always have to be expressed explicitly during sex, and if sometimes it can be expressed on the DL and other times pull out all the stops... But for me, 2-3 times on the DL...I can live with that.
Well you know Anon, I am always the one trying to seek some low level compromise when dealing with things like this. I guess I think in terms of trying to establish some minimum level or foundation and then building on top of that.

For myself I recognize that flying my freak flag even twice a month out of the four times we have sex, would be overall detrimental to our sex life, because my wife is just not comfortable enough and would consider it stressful.
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