Deejo

To me, the shock value piece is easy. Just don't be home. Don't go to bed with her. Go out. See your guy friends, go to the movies, work out, shoot pool, play darts, bowl, have a beer.

Stop being around and she will start to feel exactly the kind of anxiety and rejection you feel, only she won't deal with it nearly as rationally as you have.

__________________
"I figured out they were serious eventually but was thinking it was ridiculous. I wanted to kick them in the balls." - Trenton

eagleclaw

I have done not enough of that, but I want to be around for my kids which is the kicker!

Deejo

Has all the more impact if you do it after putting the kids to bed, depending upon their age.

I used to go out when she was getting into bed at 10 pm.

The other caveat that I will give you is that this can completely and utterly backfire. Meaning, she may pull even further away, and instead look for someone else - this was my case.

In hindsight, all it did was hasten the eventual outcome, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

__________________
"I figured out they were serious eventually but was thinking it was ridiculous. I wanted to kick them in the balls." - Trenton

BigBadWolf

My advice on this, stop this type of complaining about sex. At best it will appear to your woman only that you are a whiny complainer (weak=not sexual). Worst, it will build more resent and contempt in the woman.

Talking about sex, it is not effective.

Sexual attraction, it simply does not happen in the same parts of our brains that logic or rational thinking.

Sexual attraction, it is primal, behavior based.

Sexual attraction, it is only going to be effective when communicated in actions and behavior, do not miss this.

I am not making this up, a woman, she is not going to respond positive to negotiation or bartering or intellectualize the number of times for sex. I have never seen this produce positive results.

Far FAR better to initiate, or at least state plainly what you desire and intend to do, and see it through, than any talk or bartering.

And this, is effective when all pieces are in place, of respect and sexual attraction, which will be in place for the good man when he is acting and behaving in the dominant sense, that he is in control of himself and his environment.

Excellent.

Simple rule of thumb, when your woman acts like the child, treat her as the child.

This, this is totally unacceptable.

In your situation, it would be difficult to say how to react.

I know how I would have reacted.

Non the less, this behavior is screaming of lack of respect, and tell tale that she is full to the brim with resentment, and views sex as merely a chore, as a woman will do when there is not respect to her man, and emotional connection and sexual attraction are missing.

Resentment, it has killed her sexual attraction to you, and is either killing or killed her respect to you as well.

To fix this, it must always start by rebuilding respect.

She has no problem expressing her limits.

Now, become a master of expressing yours.

Marriage, it is a sexual relatoinship.

Everything else, rises and falls on how the good man and woman maintain sexual attraction.

Even with this guarantee, still, she is maintianing 100 percent control of sex in the relationship.

A woman treating her man in this fashion, she will never respect a man that "agrees" to this, and will quickly resent and hold in contempt this man even to have to give this man sex "once a week".


This attitude is appropriate.

Stand up for it absolutely.


Lose the scheduling.

Stick with your gut, that sex should be spontaneous and free flowing and bliss, not a tool for negotiation, or gauged for frequency.


Screwed up, maybe, maybe not.

Unhealthy for the relationship, sure.

But in all this, she is behaving EXACTLY as a woman will, when she is not respecting her man, and is in a relatinship with a man she is not respecting and not sexually attracted to and not emotionally connected to. IN this relatoinship, sex is a chore, at least as far a discussing it with words.

As mentioned before, even for one instance to reject her for sex, not out of rage or hostility, but out of calm confidence as a stark consequence to some disrespectful or backhanded behavior on her part (the wh0re comment, for example), would likely go far to show her there is actually another individual with a stake and a say so in the sexual relationship, a man, not a child or a servant, but a good man that has control over himself and his environment.

She would "enjoy" it only to the point it relieves her disgust to have to sexually perform for a man that she is not respecting, not emotoinally connected to, or sexually attracted to. If so, there is much more danger to be worried about than sexual frequency, as an affair man is likley just around the corner.

If instead she is serious about the relationship, and merely fitness testing, and some respect somewhere in her mind for her man, then even if at first she may seem to "enjoy it", be sure to a woman, being rejected for sex, is a terrible, terrible blow.



So I will quickly add this as well, as it came to my mind typing out these other replies, that you need to increase respect on all fronts, so here are some ideas you may find beneficial.

1. Take time for your own hobbies, with or without your woman.

2. Every now and then, make a small purchase of an item just for yourself, without asking of course.

3. Actually, in practically every action or behavior of yourself, do not ask for permission to do what you want to do.

4. In conversations, look for opportunities to challenge your woman. Think of these as the male versions of "fitness test", but without any of the maliciousness or personal cutting. Things like "how did you spend your time today", or "how much did that (item) cost", or "who were you talking to on the phone when I came home". This may sound trivial, but I encourage all men to adopt this attitude and find your own ways to do this, as the man who tries these often for the first time is amazed to see how his woman reacts, when she stops seeing him as a child, and instead as a man that is not afriad to challenge her, or even have the boldness (or nerve, or arrogance, or confidence, whatever you wish to call it) to call her on her actions and behavior. This also goes miles to stopping cold the flow of "fitness tests" from the woman to the man.

5. In conversations, be the one to wrap them up, end them, and say goodbye first. Small thing, big results.

__________________
Decide what to be, and go be it. -Avett Brothers.

Atholk

Oh that's both ultra harsh and a very bad sign.

__________________
The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 is available to buy! Love, Sex, Nice Guys, Alpha, Beta, Dealing With Cheating, Oneitis, Sexless Marriages, Sex Rank, Body Agenda, Sexy Moves, Seduction Skills and more! 344 pages of high quality practical information. The MMSL Primer Book

Mom6547

There is something missing here. If feeling desired and valued is the goal, why wouldn't one state THAT as the goal rather than some number of times per week?

I suspect I am being dense.

eagleclaw

We have gone long periods and she has been affectionate etc, but no sex life. It's all well and good - but I require a sex life. I have lots of friends, good friends. Some are even affectionate. But I don't sleep with them. I want something more than that.

Deejo

Can't speak for EC, but I wasn't the one to bring up a number regarding frequency ... she did. I stated that the frequency of intimacy of once or twice a month was insufficient. I was referring to a 'state of being' she was referring to the tally of feeling an obligation.

It's about as basic and catastrophic a breakdown in communication as you can have.

__________________
"I figured out they were serious eventually but was thinking it was ridiculous. I wanted to kick them in the balls." - Trenton

eagleclaw

I wasn't either - the therapist suggested once a week was the bar minimum to keep a marriage on track. So that is what she striving for, the bar minimum. And generally speaking we don't even meet that....... I don't have a real number in mind. I just us both to be into each other, and be spontanous. I'm 39 years old - although I could do it every day I generally don't want to anymore. Not because my drive isn't there, but because I have other interests as well. Although if my wife really wanted it, I would there for her. At least in the past.

MarriedWifeInLove

EC, tried your suggestion. Crawled into bed with hubby and started "taking care of myself" and didn't say a word. He just ended up falling asleep (he had been drinking).

So...wonder what that says. All I know is I REFUSE to let it affect my self-esteem, etc. I'm a good person and a loving wife that takes care of her family. I'm going to chalk this up to - brain injury, medical problems and quit (starting today) taking it personally and see what happens. The situation is driving me crazy and I need to back off and look at it with perspective and consider everything involved (his ED issues, medications, brain injury, etc.).

We'll see how long this lasts. Its just sad though because things could be so great. I'm just so angry and resentful that this has happened to us and there's not a damn thing I can do to change it - makes you feel so helpless and out of control.

Thanks for the input.

eagleclaw

MarriedWifeInLove, I hear you. I have some of the same issues without her having any of the medical issues. I would definately try this when he's sober though....... when I'm drinking I have fallen asleep while GETTING oral - and I was into it! LOL.

Can you elaborate on some of these other issues.... brain injury, medications etc?

MarriedWifeInLove

If you look at my other posts, you'll see that my husband suffered a brain injury in 2008 which has left him with memory loss, cognitive issues, speech problems, etc. He has come a long way, but one of the issues has been a sensory issue where part of his "equipment" does not have all sensation it used to. He is on 24 daily medications to control his symptoms from seizures, to BP to mood, to migraine to Plavix. He's been having ED issues from his high BP since around 2004, but they have been made worse from this injury. We've tried all the ED meds, none work at all....so we've looked at other ways to spice things up.

But - he has this "I'm a man, I have to perform, you don't understand" (his words exactly). I can't seem to get him past this and onto keeping our intimacy through other actions.

And I have a high sex drive and while I am more than capable of taking care of myself, I miss that physical connection between us and he has taken an "all or nothing" attitude and of course with his issues - all doesn't work most of the time, so it turns into nothing. And of course it makes me feel unwanted, undesirable, unloved - you name it. And I can't help feeling this way.

But as I said, I'm going to back off and quit putting so much emphasis on it and see if it will work out - I'm just lonely and it gets frustrating!

And he's starting to think that all I care about is sex and not him. But you know - I read somewhere once where someone wrote "sex is like air, you don't know you need it until you don't have any." And I do love him more than just for sex - but I miss that closeness and we are more than capable of using other methods - it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Macho men can drive you crazy sometimes!!

Thanks for letting me vent.

MEM11363

This is an EXCELLENT post and and excellent topic for discussion. I am going to briefly describe our interaction and frequency as a point of reference.

Normally we are fairly steady at twice a week which is delightful because when we connect it feels incredible physically AND emotionally. And that frequency is a true middle ground between my somewhat higher drive and her somewhat lower drive.

The last 2 months though her schedule has been grueling. Work plus a temporary volunteer thing plus the usual kid stuff. So we connected maybe 6-8 times in two months. I EASILY could have doubled the frequency by saying yes on the many nights she offered but was tired.

We DON'T have a quota - but frankly if she had the schedule that EC's wife does and was in a 2/month mode that would not be acceptable to me because it would show a lack of consideration for what I want.

We do argue about sex on occasion. And the arguments are all inverted. She is saying we "should" because it has been X days - actually she is comical and will say "it has been months" I don't want to be one of "THOSE wives" and she puts heavy emphasis on the word "THOSE" because she views a sexually lazy/inept wife as a bad wife. And I always laugh and tell her she is an A++ wife and deserves a massage and a good nights sleep.

eagleclaw

Good info MEM, thanks for that. We have had occassions, very few of them where we have done it many times in a week. It can happen. And I have learned about some stressful stuff happening at her work which is bumming her right out - which may explain her recent lack of interest (possibly having to quit her job) , and may explain (although not make it right) how I might have been the straw that broke the camels back with this.

We have been "negotiating" or discussing our issues since the other night and were not finding common ground. But with this other stuff going on she was upset and crying so I told her to put this other stuff aside for right now so we can deal with this immenent problem, gave her a hug and was her sounding board to try and find a solution. She seemed thankful for that and a little affectionate this morning becore going to work ( a kiss - we haven't been at all).

So, not that her actions were warrented or acceptable in any way - but now that I know what else was going on in her head at this point I think I know how we got there.

eagleclaw

Married Wife,

I think you need to follow MEM and BBW advice as well. His actions are not respectful, compassionate or reasonable on any level. I have been out of commission at times but I was always there for my wife anyways. You may need to try shock value with him - because if you let this continue, it will definately continue. Deejo touched on this as well. Make him less of a priority, start doing your hobbies and become unavailable. Talk to the other sex...... make him a little worried without crossing the line. If he doesn't respond, he doesn't care that much. And if doesn't care that much you have some very real decisions to make. That's my take on this.