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Another classic LDW/HDH

5K views 53 replies 19 participants last post by  BostonBruins32 
#1 ·
Hey guys, I posted an inappropriate message in the wrong forum right off the bat, so I've been lurking for a few days.

I'm in the ever-common LDW/HDH situation and it's really starting to drain on me (as the HDH). First off, I love my wife dearly. We feel in love and got married in our late teens, and 13 years and 3 kids later, we're now in our early 30s. We've always been LD/HD, and there's always been compromise, times where I've gone without, times where she's "done it anyway." But the situation is really starting to wear me down. I kinda want to make a spreadsheet. ;)

Her argument is that it's stupid that my entire existence revolves around "that one thing." If things are good in that area, everything is good. If things are bad, everything is bad. She thinks I should not put so much weight on this one criteria as it puts undue pressure on her. But I can't help it, it's just how I am. And judging from what I've read here, I'm certainly not the only one.

Perhaps I'm a little picky though. Thing is, I want her to want it. I've never really had meaningless sex with anyone, to me sex is all about intimacy and emotion. So I often deprive myself, passing on her offers of pity-sex, holding out until I finally just take something to get me by. It's also worth mentioning that she has health issues. She hates doctors, but finally went to the gyno after suffering through years of 10-, sometimes 14-day periods. Gyno seemed unfazed, but put her on some BC (unneeded, I'm snipped). BC seemed to actually make things worse, now we're on BC #2. We both feel like the true fix will be a hysterectomy, but that's obviously not without its own side effects.

As an all-around husband, I think I'm pretty great. Her friends all seem to be jealous, as I don't have any solo hobbies like golf, fishing, bar-hopping, sports, etc. I do tons around the house, help with kids' stuff. I basically wait on my wife if she needs or wants anything, water, snack, tissues, purse, etc. I love her like crazy and try to treat her like a princess.

Every time we discuss/argue about anything, I somehow come off being the bad guy, so I try to avoid it. Like I said, she's well aware of the LD/HD problem, and she feels bad about it.

It kinda makes me feel like a **** for wanting sex. I'm insanely physically attracted her, despite all the flaws she sees in the mirror. I sometimes feel like I should just get on some libido-killing drugs so I can be happy.

So, obviously I should cut her some slack for the health issues, but how much slack? Also, she has a perfectly good mouth that she's sometimes willing to put to use, but seems that 90% of the time, she has a cold sore, or sore throat, or sinus issues or SOMETHING.

Any other advice? The D word has been crossing my mind more and more lately, which really just depresses me. We had no lives before each other, everything we have is together, including the kids. Divorce would be a huge deal. But then again, this is a huge deal, and she thinks it's silly.
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#2 ·
It sounds like you do too much. You're a good wife to her. Look into the 180 and MMSLP (often referenced by other people here, and there are threads about them) and see if they give you any ideas that may spark change.

All her needs are being met in abundance. Yours are not. Shift that balance, and maybe things will improve. Often, they will not no matter what you do, but the referenced ideas have worked for some. It's worth a try before thinking about the big D - but eventually, even the serious, sincere threat of D may be needed to upset the status quo and can sometimes result in change.
 
#4 ·
She can't meet his needs. Period. He's said that he wants her to want it; in other words he wants her to be what she's not. Except that she was always like this and he married her anyway, and now he wants to change the rules. He can stop doing things in the house but it won't make her want it. It might make her put out but that isn't what he wants.
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#3 ·
If you are thinking about leaving a good marriage with 3 children because you aren't having sex enough then I agree with your wife you are putting to much emphasis on sex. It's not like you haven't had sex for weeks or months (or years like me) It sounds like you have reached a compromise. It's not as much as you want but if you divorce and are alone there is no guarantee that you will ever have sex much less as often as you want.

Be happy you in a good marriage and are with your children and are getting sex. Maybe you need a hobby so you aren't thinking about sex so often. Leaving your wife and children over this would be selfish of you.
 
#5 ·
It's not like you haven't had sex for weeks or months (or years like me) It sounds like you have reached a compromise.
I'd call that statement premature, since the OP never said exactly how often they go between sessions. It could be once every three months as far as we know and most people on this forum would define that as a sexless marriage.

break break

CalamityJim, a couple of things. First of all, you need to do an honest assessment of the marriage from your side of the street. I know, you're a pretty awesome husband with little room for improvement, but take some time to ask yourself a few questions. Do you think you are meeting her needs, or are you really doing it? She may say she is 100% happy but gut-check time: is she? If you haven't read it, I recommend a book called The Five Love Languages (you can get it used off Amazon for $5). It may not give you any exact answers but could spark something in your mind about how you two interact with each other. Perhaps she really needs something else from you.

Second, what stresses are ongoing in your marriage? You mentioned her health and having three kids at home - young, I presume, by the length of your marriage. Those can really be taxing on a person. Is there anything else? Financial trouble? Outside family issues? Job (yours or hers)? Any of those things can seriously ding someone's libido, or even prevent them from letting go long enough to enjoy. Is she unable to get into it when you do get going or is mind always elsewhere? If nothing else, eliminate the possibility ... or has it always been this way and there are no conditions that led to it? Either way, understand the answer in your own head.

Third, if you get past those and are where you are now, then it might be time to destabilize things a little as others suggested. I do not mean trying to pick up other women in front of your wife to make her jealous. I mean that instead of relying on her to meet your needs, meet them yourself. Be a little less available. Slowly pull back from doing things for her. Turn down the thermostat a little. Remain upbeat throughout and find your happiness within. When she comments on why you are doing so, simply shrug and tell her that you are taking care of your own happiness and let her ponder the unsaid messages. Book recommendation #2: No More Mr. Nice Guy. Do not let the title fool you, it will not encourage you to be a jerk. It is more about being assertive in making sure your needs are met. You can find a PDF version for free online. Hold On To Your N.U.T.S is also excellent in this area.

If none of that works, I would say it is time for marriage counseling. You can't force her to go but you go. Talk to a minister if you are religious.

Only after all these options have been exhausted should you consider divorce. If it comes to that, at least you will be able to look your children, family, and friends in the face and say you did everything possible but could not reconcile your differences. You exit with integrity.

Here's hoping it does not come to that. Best of luck, brother.
 
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#6 ·
Thank you all for the replies. I can't address all questions atm, but we are familiar with the love languages book; we have a copy but have not read it. regarding stressors, her job is the ****tiest job in the world, and i try to get her to quit every day. its definitely a contributor, but we've had issues since before she went back to work less than a year ago.
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#7 ·
Perhaps I'm a little picky though. Thing is, I want her to want it.
So you won't be satisfied if (despite her lifelong history of LD) she is just a willing sex partner with a good attitude? She must WANT it?

You are more than a little picky.
You are completely unreasonable and unfair to place this demand on her.

(PS, I'm an HDH with an LDW, in case that gives my response above any more credibility to you)
 
#10 ·
Hmm... I posted a reply yesterday, but it's not showing up. weird.

Anyhow, no, we do not go months on end. I think we've probably gone a month, but that's not usual. Two weeks is fairly common, but we probably average about once a week. I realize there are guys here who are in much tougher spots than me.

As for additional stressors, she went back to work last fall after our youngest started school. Bottom line, her job is one of the worst I can imagine, and we don't need the money. I try to get her to quit every day, but she wants the extra money for extras. We can pay all our bills on my salary, but not much else. She wants vacations and other extras and is willing to nearly kill herself in the process. And that's definitely a contributing factor to the sexual issues.

We have the love languages book somewhere; we've never read it, but we're familiar with the concepts. I'm physical, she likes deeds and gifts. Typical male/female, I think.

For all of you who called me selfish, thank you. I needed to hear that. I've been happier the past few days by just deciding to be, and it's been nice.

For the record, I'm not considering divorce. I'm just saying that the thought is not as alien to me lately as it once was. I agree that leaving my family over sex would be incredibly selfish.

THANK YOU for the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" recommendation. After reading the synopsis, it seems like the perfect book for my situation.

AND... all this feels pointless at the moment, as we just got out of the shower where we had a very nice quickie. :D A quickie, sure, but not a pity-quickie.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I'm in the ever-common LDW/HDH situation and it's really starting to drain on me (as the HDH). First off, I love my wife dearly. We feel in love and got married in our late teens, and 13 years and 3 kids later, we're now in our early 30s.
There's an alarm bell right there. Not that there's anything wrong with having stayed with the same person since your teen years (it's actually very nice), BUT...

In my opinion, people generally go through the basic stages of growing up, in terms of relationships, and you guys basically skipped the last one (or last two, really). Generally speaking, most people tend to spend their late teens and early to mid 20's experimenting, dating a bit, and generally being "free" before one starts to try and settle down. The college years. Focus on yourself, your education (or career), get your own place, maybe party it up a bit, that sort of thing. Date some people, short term or long term, learn about the opposite sex more in depth, etc. Basically gain that all-valuable experience.

There are many people who live happily ever after who have been together since they were 14, 17, 20, whatever. There are just as many (perhaps more, and I count myself as one) who do not. I met my ex wife when I was 19 and she was 17, and we were together for 14 years. It imploded. One of the things she mentioned to me at the end was that she felt she "missed" her 20's, and the freedom and experimentation it entailed. Thankfully we did not have kids, so it was much easier for us to go our separate ways. And FWIW, we both had experience before each other with dating, sex, longish relationships, etc.

But most people are not fully matured before their mid 20's (some even later). Desires change, people grow in opposite directions.


We've always been LD/HD, and there's always been compromise, times where I've gone without, times where she's "done it anyway." But the situation is really starting to wear me down. I kinda want to make a spreadsheet. ;)
There's alarm bell #2. You both have always been the way you've been - mismatched desires/needs. At first, it probably didn't matter nearly as much, right? You two are in love and planning a life together. Now with age and experience, you are realizing just how important it IS to you, to be with someone who has a similar desire. I hate to say it, but this is something you would have figured out by having a few more relationships earlier on. My ex wife and I were similar. We figured out our desire levels weren't in sync fairly early on, but we (well, I) thought it didn't matter - we're in love. Also before marriage, the LD partner usually tends to ramp it up a bit, or at least not say "no". This usually goes away. Whether it's because the courtship is over and you're now married so it's not an issue any more, or they just don't have to try as hard. This is a terrible mindset to have, but people DO have it. Some people do believe that marriage changes how much effort you have to put in, which is completely idiotic, imo. Successful relationships don't have that - each person still makes the effort for the other one. You see it both ways, men and women. It's almost like marriage is a benchmark for some people (especially LD's). An imaginary line they cross in which the rules are different on the other side, and they can pack up the version of them that necessitated landing, and keeping, a partner. The irony is, those people, should they end up divorced, do the same thing again when trying to land another partner. They do what must be done until they reach their goal, and the cycle continues. It's a very strange mindset to have.

Her argument is that it's stupid that my entire existence revolves around "that one thing." If things are good in that area, everything is good. If things are bad, everything is bad. She thinks I should not put so much weight on this one criteria as it puts undue pressure on her. But I can't help it, it's just how I am. And judging from what I've read here, I'm certainly not the only one.
And alarm bell #3. She is starting to resent your desires to be close to her. There is no room for resentment in a healthy relationship. And this isn't your fault, either. Nor is it hers, really.

Perhaps I'm a little picky though. Thing is, I want her to want it. I've never really had meaningless sex with anyone, to me sex is all about intimacy and emotion. So I often deprive myself, passing on her offers of pity-sex, holding out until I finally just take something to get me by.
There are some recent threads on this very subject, including one I started in which I feel the exact same way as you do. They revolve around possible asexuality, general selfishness, and meeting each others needs, among other things.

I, too, do not gain anything from meaningless sex. I don't think I'm capable of it. I've had what most people would call meaningless sex before, and I wasn't capable of not attaching some sort of emotion to it, whether my partner(s) completely forgot about it the next day or not. I didn't fall in love with the few girls I hooked up with, but I didn't just brush them off, either. I'm just not capable of sleeping with someone and turning off that light switch on my way out the door, if you know what I mean. And I'm a dude. Sex is not meaningless to me, and it's disconcerting to see the majority of people, men and women, who are fully capable of this. I wish I was, but I also wish THEY weren't, if that makes sense.


It's also worth mentioning that she has health issues. She hates doctors, but finally went to the gyno after suffering through years of 10-, sometimes 14-day periods. Gyno seemed unfazed, but put her on some BC (unneeded, I'm snipped). BC seemed to actually make things worse, now we're on BC #2. We both feel like the true fix will be a hysterectomy, but that's obviously not without its own side effects.
Those don't help, but they shouldn't automatically preclude two people from meeting each others needs when possible.

If she hasn't had her hormones checked, I might suggest that. What's going on with her may be affecting those levels, and if that's the case, it's relatively easy to fix. In fact, I'm thinking her hormones are definitely out of whack, what with 2-week long periods and all.


As an all-around husband, I think I'm pretty great. Her friends all seem to be jealous, as I don't have any solo hobbies like golf, fishing, bar-hopping, sports, etc. I do tons around the house, help with kids' stuff. I basically wait on my wife if she needs or wants anything, water, snack, tissues, purse, etc. I love her like crazy and try to treat her like a princess.

Another alarm bell - you are going above and beyond (in your eyes) to meet her needs, without her having to meet yours. Why should she? There's no challenge. You do everything for her, anyway. Although relationships shouldn't be about tit-for-tat, that's generally how they are. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. When one person is spoiled in that regard, no matter what they do or don't do in return, they start to view it as a case of not HAVING to do anything because you're doing all the work they require anyway. There's no symbiosis in this marriage right now.

Stop treating her like a princess, because she now believes she is one. Put yourself in her shoes - she comes home from work every day and you're in your boxers on the couch watching TV. You may have taken care of a few things around the house, but she still has another couple of hours of work to do (make dinner, for example). When she finishes the household chores, you're still on the couch in your underwear, and she comes over and gives you a BJ.

Is any of that going to get you off the couch in order to meet her needs? Of course not, you've got it made. Your wife does most of the stuff around the house AND you get sex!

I'm not suggesting your wife does nothing, nor sits around in her housecoat and slippers watching A&E all day, but it does seem the balance is way off in terms of who's doing the work. Even if it's 70/30 or 60/40, it's still imbalanced.


Every time we discuss/argue about anything, I somehow come off being the bad guy, so I try to avoid it. Like I said, she's well aware of the LD/HD problem, and she feels bad about it.

It kinda makes me feel like a **** for wanting sex. I'm insanely physically attracted her, despite all the flaws she sees in the mirror. I sometimes feel like I should just get on some libido-killing drugs so I can be happy.
See my post from the other day in this section. What another poster said mirrors this sentiment exactly. Feelings of guilt, included.

So, obviously I should cut her some slack for the health issues, but how much slack? Also, she has a perfectly good mouth that she's sometimes willing to put to use, but seems that 90% of the time, she has a cold sore, or sore throat, or sinus issues or SOMETHING.

Excuses. They might be valid most of the time, but they are excuses nonetheless. What she (and all other partners, male or female alike) should be doing when they're not meeting their partners needs is to take a raincheck, or take care of those needs in other ways. Instead of just parading out the excuses time after time.

She is not listening to you. She is not even hearing you, I don't think. These things are not priorities to her, and that is fine. But they are important to YOU and your well-being. You make her a priority, and treat her like a princess. Why? Because she is important to you and you want to make her happy, and that makes YOU happy. She does not feel the same way (at this moment).

The imbalance isn't so much about sex drives, it's about the relationship as a whole. That's what I've learned here at TAM. Two people with mismatched drives can certainly have a fantastic marriage despite their differences on the subject.

What it comes down to is the mismatched desire to make your partner happy and meet their needs - NOT sexually mismatched desires.

You have the desire to do things for your wife to make her happy and feel special and important. She does not. Plain and simple. You power through the stuff you'd rather not be doing because you understand the need for it. She does not. And the end result is that it's rewarding (or should be) when you do things FOR your wife, to alleviate her burden, or generally make things easier for her. It makes you feel good, and makes you feel like a good husband. She does not derive the same pleasure from doing things for you. THAT'S the problem.


Any other advice? The D word has been crossing my mind more and more lately, which really just depresses me. We had no lives before each other, everything we have is together, including the kids. Divorce would be a huge deal. But then again, this is a huge deal, and she thinks it's silly.
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#13 ·
Replies seem to be very polarized. Some say, omg, gtfo now, others say i'm unreasonable. I'll take the middle road and try to work on things.

I was in a bad mood when I wrote the original post. I'm not unhappy in my marriage. But I occasionally wonder if my happiness is simply due to ignorance. Perhaps a more joyous plane is out there, but I'm not in a position to seek it.

I should clarify some things.

First, I certainly don't want to make it seem like my wife does nothing. She almost solely tends to the kids and the house. I help out where i can, but as with most husbands, I send my kids out dressed like blind hobos when left to my own devices. And when I "cook," it's hot dogs or tacos or something similarly not classified as "cooking." But nonetheless, I do help.

I definitely feel that missing out on my 20s has been a detriment. Also, I was a greasy, fat nerdy kid back then, and now, I'm a marginally fit, reasonably attractive man. I feel like I could have lots of luck with the ladies now, whereas back then, it was basically zero. In fact, I've been guilty of a couple of extramarital emotional relationships, which when she found out about them really sparked an uptick in our sex life. As in, she was wearing me out for a while! I guess what I really need is to figure out how to spark that again.

Before I continue, let me say THANK YOU, alexm, for your thoughtful and insightful response. Even though it was all in bold, which is pretty weird. :p I'll be seeking out those other posts in a bit.

My conundrum is in how to handle the rejection. On the one hand, I can get pissed and depressed and make sure she knows how I feel, but on the other hand, that I feel like that tends to have a negative effect on the future. She already feels guilty about rejecting me, do I need to rub it in?

I don't know. My emotions have been a roller coaster lately.

The kids are gone for the week. This is the second time in a month. Last time was kidless and sexless. Whoopty doo. Lets see if this time is any different.
 
#25 ·
I definitely feel that missing out on my 20s has been a detriment. Also, I was a greasy, fat nerdy kid back then, and now, I'm a marginally fit, reasonably attractive man. I feel like I could have lots of luck with the ladies now, whereas back then, it was basically zero. In fact, I've been guilty of a couple of extramarital emotional relationships, which when she found out about them really sparked an uptick in our sex life. As in, she was wearing me out for a while! I guess what I really need is to figure out how to spark that again.
So...let's talk about the emotional affairs you've had. What did you do as a WS, and what have you and your wife done as a couple, to properly address your EAs and heal your relationship?

By the way, figuring out how to spark hysterical bonding again shouldn't be your goal. Even if you do seem to feel that you could do better than your wife now. Because what sparked that was your emotional infidelity. And that is no way to build either trust nor a lasting marriage.
 
#16 ·
You can't give her something impossible (I want her to want it) to do. But eventually she will want it if you ramp up your masculinity.

You should definitely read the book you have. You have to find out what her equivalent to sex is (do this by trial and error though, not by asking her to fill out questionaires).

You have to elevate your way of thinking about life and giving your wife choices.

Example: You are TRYING to get your wife to quit her job. What you should be doing is defining a life that happy fulfilled parents make happy fulfilled children and that her job is harming her marriage, her husband and her children. And give her the choice of what kind of mother and wife does she WANT to be.

Same goes for marriage. It's not I want sex.. It's "a marriage is a sexual relationship".... and "wives and husband have to meet each other's needs".. and "what kind of wife do you want to be"....

So your assignment is nothing to do with your wife. It's for you to elevate your thinking about what your values are, what work is for, how you as a husband will act, how you expect your wife to act, what are your goals for your family, how should your family operate... And develop these ideas within yourself... And eventually give your wife choices make... I.e.. I think marriages are sexual, what do you think?
 
#17 ·
Convection, I've been at work all day, but have gotten little accomplished. Mostly, I've been reading No More Mr. Nice Guy. I'm sure this book gets recommended all the time here, but I can't thank you enough. I am absolutely a Nice Guy, and my problems go far beyond just this sexual thing. One of our core issues is that we don't have any regular friends outside of one another. We're relying too much one one another to meet all the emotional needs and it's draining us both.

This book is changing my life. I'm frustrated that I didn't learn about it sooner.
 
#19 ·
If a woman is LD and her H puts pressure on her to have sex, it's just going to make her resentful, not trust you love, and pull away. If there's one thing I've learned on TAM, it's that many men view regular sex as a necessity. Without it, they may just leave.

For a LD wife, she needs to know you love her no matter what. She MUST trust you in this regard or her feelings of love toward you will go away and she will think you only really love her if you can have sex with her.

Now, if that is true, if you can't love her without sex, then you have a big decision to make. If that is your truth, you need to tell her that. She may be thinking that now and just praying it's not true. Because if that is true, she will probably feel like your love has been conditional.

LD women love with their hearts more than their bodies. If she suspects you love her when you get sex and don't when you don't, you are headed for the big D or at least some sad years.

I think you should look up how often married men and women actually have sex. The Kinsley Institute has that info on the FAQs page of their web site. They have also been studies that show men don't lose interest in sex over time but that women do. Whether we are talking about 20 year olds who are in committed relationships or 40 year old married women, the longer a woman is in a relationship the less interest in sex she has. Of course, the high drive women on TAM will dispute that, but it's true generally.
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#20 · (Edited)
If a woman is LD and her H puts pressure on her to have sex, it's just going to make her resentful...
Right... which is why I'm NOT pressuring her, or even bringing it up. But when she asks what's bothering me when I'm sitting, staring into space, should I just lie?
not trust you love, and pull away. If there's one thing I've learned on TAM, it's that many men view regular sex as a necessity. Without it, they may just leave.

LD women love with their hearts more than their bodies. If she suspects you love her when you get sex and don't when you don't, you are headed for the big D or at least some sad years.
I speak her love languages fluently. I don't think she doubts that I love her, regardless of the frequency of sex.

I think you should look up how often married men and women actually have sex. The Kinsley Institute has that info on the FAQs page of their web site. They have also been studies that show men don't lose interest in sex over time but that women do. Whether we are talking about 20 year olds who are in committed relationships or 40 year old married women, the longer a woman is in a relationship the less interest in sex she has. Of course, the high drive women on TAM will dispute that, but it's true generally.
Not to be rude, but I don't really care how often other people are having sex. Plus, I question the validity of these surveys. What counts as sex? A quickie in the shower? An hours-long encounter by candlelight? They seem to carry the same weight in these studies, but one of those fulfills a need much better than the other.
 
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#26 ·
CJ,

Don't know if you've done so already but AlexM's thread
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/208746-huge-turn-events-now-extremely-confused.html

is probably something you should read through. The question about wanting to be desired versus sex for the sake of sex was thoroughly discussed and debated.
Thanks. I think I came across that link a month ago, but I'm reading it again.

One thing you keep bringing up is wanting "passionate sex". What do you define as "passionate sex"? Maybe what your wife defines as passionate sex is above and beyond what you are actually looking for from her.
I don't mean in the movie sense, where clothes are being peeled off without breaking the kiss, I mean "mean it" sex, where both parties want it and are active and participating. No starfish, no shower quickies, etc.

Here's a suggestion...Rather than focusing on your differences, you need to start finding some common ground with her. Have her list the things she wants out of your love life. Then compare them to what you want. Pair up the stuff that match and do those in the interim while you compromise on the other stuff.
Thanks.
 
#35 ·
I'm going to join the chorus here, Jim and ask for a little more context.

Does your wife, roll her eyes, sigh, ask if you're done yet and answer the telephone during sex?

Or is she just less enthusiastic than you would like?
 
#39 ·
Your situation sounds a lot like mine, except I feel I treat my husband like a King, but instead of being treated like a Queen, I am some lowly servant.

It's very depressing. I love him and the thought of not being with him makes me feel sick, but I also don't want to spend the rest of my life feeling unloved and unappreciated.

I feel like my moods do revolve around sex and not getting it. It's important to me.

I don't really have much advice since I am in the same boat, but I know how you feel.
 
#41 · (Edited)
I think you are getting some good advice here from Alex and others, but I do want to chime in as a wife who denied sex for many years.

While the theme of "meeting needs" is a worthy one, having the need to have your wife desire you passionately is a tricky one. Why? Well, because if she doesn't feel it, she doesn't feel it. She can go through the motions and have a good attitude about it, yes--but if you are saying that those things are STILL not enough, then you do have work to do, and more important, so does she.

The sort of passionate desire you need cannot be faked, so if you're not getting it, she's not feeling it. Unless she's willing to look very closely at herself and her sexual nature, you're going to be left sort of flailing around in the dark. Yeah, you can do the MMSP/NMMNG thing, but will it work? Will she resent you for it? Will it make you more likely to be impatient if you don't get results?

Best case scenario is to get her to realize what sex with her means to you. As Alex says--it's not about the sex. It's about the intimacy and the bonding and the feeling desired. Not having those things when you long for them can eat a hole in your soul. This is something that I simply did not "get" for those years when my husband and I were having sex only a few times a month.

I don't know what words you have used when expressing to your wife how this is affecting you--but I suspect she is not "getting it." It was when I stumbled across TAM and read threads akin to this one and Alex's and many, many others that the lightbulb went off. At that point I WANTED to find my desire for the sake of my husband because he is very much like you--he wants the real deal only, and not getting that from me had profoundly affected his happiness.

I don't mean to sound like a Debbie Downer, but she has to want to figure out how to want sex. And to an LD, finding that inspiration is not going to "just happen." She has to admit and accept that she's not attracted to her husband, figure out why, and trust you enough to say, "This is what I need you to do in order for me to respond to you sexually." Are you willing to hear that from your wife? Are you willing to change if need be?

For women who feel no sexual attraction to the man they love, the mountain can seem way to big to climb--if they even see the mountain at all.
 
#45 ·
Thank you for this post. She doesn't understand. That's the whole problem. I think I said this, but her words of "sex" and "vagina" and "between my legs" are indicative that she's not equating it with my need for physical intimacy. From our long text conversation today:

(Me): "Your definition of sex is 'a warm place to stick it.' My definition: 'the physical manifestation of two people passionately in love.'"
(Her): "I am in love with you, and the fact that you won't accept it in other forms just makes me resentful."

Rowan, the EAs were several years ago. I can't promise that there is no bearing on our current situation, but it really doesn't feel like it.

5-7x a week is only if it's pity/duty sex. If it's good sex that she's into, sex that involves a position change or two, I don't think that I would even want more than twice a week. But it seems impossible to get to that point.

And you admit, tommyr, that a lot of your wife's needs are low on your priority list, but you make them a priority anyway. That may be part of the problem. My wife's needs are inherently high on my priority list. That's why I can't understand her dismissiveness of my own. Of course, the "man up" plan says to screw her needs unless yours are being met, so I don't know.

As far as what I need to do, I need to find a good workout plan. I need to man up more. My initial assertiveness seemed to work, but it may have just coincided with ovulation.

*sigh*

I love her so much, guys. I wish I hadn't mentioned divorce in my initial post, because it's really not an option to me. Not unless things get really bad and we've gone through several bouts of MC.
 
#42 ·
I'm still betting that his largely unaddressed multiple EA's are a huge factor in his wife not desiring him passionately. It can be very hard for some women to be - to even want to be - passionate about a man they don't particularly trust emotionally. Even if the EAs happened after the sex began to be unsatisfying to him, she may be reluctant to make real efforts to improve things in the wake of them.

OP, it's possible that the two of you are locked in a negative feedback loop that will take some professional guidance to sort out.
 
#47 · (Edited)
omg, guys. Breakthrough.

We talked last night. We talked for a long time.

First, as much as I didn't want to, I brought up the EAs. "Plural??" Turns out she only "counts" the woman I knew personally, internet was a non-issue. On the bright side, that was almost ten years ago. She has forgiven me and moved on. Thoughts still crop up from time to time, but we're largely past it.

Second, and this may help others struggling with LD wives not understanding their needs... She feels no emotional bonding from sex. To her, sex is purely physical, an itch she needs to scratch periodically. Personally, I find it difficult to wrap my head around, and I worry a little about her cheating, something I have never worried about before. But it falls perfectly in line with the fact that she always dwells on the physical and can't seem to understand how deep it is for me (and alexm, and many others).

Third, I think we found the hurdle. The thing that's preventing her from completely giving in, always holding back, and that's my relationship with my preteen son. Frankly, he can be a bit of a jerk, but I lose my temper with him far too easily. Also, she's 100% against corporal punishment, where I think that's the one thing that will get through to him, because he doesn't bat an eye at punishments. She feels like the mama bear that has to protect her cub, which distances her from me emotionally.

In other words, if I want to have the deep emotional bond with my wife that I sorely desire, I have to control my emotions with my son. If that's not incentive enough to do it, I don't know what is.

We still have a lot to work on, but I can see the end. And it feels great. Thanks everyone for your replies and support.
 
#48 ·
Also, she's 100% against capital punishment, where I think that's the one thing that will get through to him, because he doesn't bat an eye at punishments. She feels like the mama bear that has to protect her cub, which distances her from me emotionally.
It's great that you two are getting somewhere and good to hear.

I'm hoping you're talking about corporeal punishment :)
 
#49 ·
You are starting to see the whole puzzle and how the pieces fit together.

You should not only control your emotions with your son, but control them with everyone. Whether you realize it or not, she watches you every time you do that.

Keep working at it. You are making great progress.
 
#50 ·
It's actually not uncommon for women not to feel emotional bonding from sex. For many women, an emotional connection is necessary for them to want sex, but sex doesn't do much to build or foster an emotional connection that's not thriving in the first place. You'll never be able to have enough sex with your wife to make her feel loved. Her feeling loved will be reliant on other, non-sexual, aspects of your relationship. Sex isn't going to do that for her - or for many women.

I recommend the book His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley very highly. It may help you and your wife out with understanding where each of you is coming from regarding sex. And regarding her desire for the two of you to be more in-tune with raising your son.
 
#52 ·
#1, don't get too excited. I've heard these kind of "breakthroughs" a hundred times on this website. Most of the time, it turns out to be another red herring. It's not fixed until it's fixed, if you know what I mean.

#2, I can't help but think that the one who needs a spanking is the one you sleep with every night.
 
#53 ·
Do you think she could your need to spank a preteen boy as . . . well, weak? To her it could demonstrate a lack of control, and inability to lead by example.

(I'm not saying your son isn't difficult--I have a 12 year old son and he seems to make it a point to steadfastly show us that no punishment fazes him. We could tie him to a fire ant mound and he'd whistle Dixie.)

If your wife doesn't respect how you parent, then she likely isn't respecting you as a sexual partner. It's good that you talked about it. I suggest coming up with a parenting plan that you both can agree on. This is different than you just backing down and letting your son get away with murder. Show some leadership and be creative--get some ideas from a pediatric therapist if you need to.

How my husband handles our kids is one of the key factors in my respect and attraction to him. This issue could be a very important launching point for you.
 
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