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Old 02-09-2011, 02:43 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Angry at women? Perhaps. I'd say a certain amount of anger is justified, actually. If women could be angered at the way they were being treated as a class in the 1960s and 1970s, then men can be angry as a class in the 2010s. You can tell us we shouldn't be angry all you want, but that doesn't make the anger go away.

In fact, the more you tell us we shouldn't be angry, that we should instead put aside our own sexual interests in favor of yours, the angrier we get. Women hated being told "not to worry their pretty little heads" about such important things as jobs and politics and sexual harassment -- and rightly so.

So why is it wrong for me to be angry? Y'all wanted us to share our feelings more as a gender. Or did you only want us to share our positive feelings? How fair is that?

And the anger comes from a place of understanding. It comes from recognizing, once you peel away all the distractions, that male and female sexual interests are fundamentally different. In the context of our present economic and social system, the way things stand are ultimately slanted against the interests of men. Yet when we complain about it and try to advocate for our interests, we're told we're a bunch of misogynistic whiners, instead of having our feelings validated and our positions understood. Y'all don't extend to us, as a class, the same respect and dignity that you DEMANDED as a class, and the hypocrisy is sickening. Twice so, since most of y'all won't even recognize it as hypocrisy.

Sure, rap stars, mobsters and celebrities buy diamonds. They're status symbols. You know what displaying symbols of status gets you in every human culture when you're a guy? Girls. That's the motivation. Even famous men don't buy diamonds because they're pretty, they buy them because girls geek out about diamonds, and by displaying them you are establishing yourself as the top of the social order, and therefore a better catch. And even if you factor that in, women still account for the vast majority of jewelry sales. Ask a jeweler. Men give jewelry or wear jewelry to impress women. Period. If you took that motivation away, de Beers would go out of business overnight. Male vanity is limited almost exclusively at impressing
women who are impressed by status objects of success. Cars, watches, expensive townhouses and all the other "vanity" issues are almost exclusively designed to attract women . . . who are lured by the promise of wealth and security. Every guy knows if you get a hot enough car, you can find some woman who will have sex with you because you have a hot car. That's why we buy hot cars.

It's all about the PP.

But despite how I slant the words (and they are designed to entertain and make an emotionally compelling argument, not plainly state a bunch of facts -- I am a writer, you know) that doesn't invalidate the truth of what I've said.
You are upset because women demand to not be treated like a blow up doll anymore? And then you make a thinly veiled threat that American men are ordering women from other countries because American women won't be that doll. Yes, somehow I see how you are so oppressed.
And just so I understand male vanity is limited to impressing women but a woman's vanity is because she is a money grubbing ***** hell bent on seperating a man from his money? Gotcha. Yeah, you aren't a misogynist.
Writer, eh? Does writing for porn count as a writer? We aren't talking Hemmingway here. Unless of course you are DrunkExPatWriter from another website. In that case, you are a literary poet.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:43 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Okay - can we all agree to disagree?

I, as a woman, don't feel that ALL women are exploited in the sexual industry. Most have freedom of choice, regardless of whether they were sexually abused in childhood or not. I'm sure you have some that feel they were forced into the industry and just as many that chose the industry by their own free will as they wanted to make fast, good money with little effort (per say).

There's good and bad in every industry and this includes the porn industry. You have those that will exploit anyone to make a fast buck and those who won't. Porn is not unique in this aspect.

I can't get on board with the blanket statement that porn exploits women (period). Just can't. And when does being abused in childhood mean that someone will turn to porn or that if you're in porn, then you must have been abused (based on the stats that have been touted here).

What does ONE have to do with the OTHER, really? I was abused as a child for many years and I'm not part of the porn industry. I fail to see a direct correlation between childhood abuse and f***king my ass off in a porn film.

Regardless of the stats, and I'm not disputing them as I haven't done the research - I fail to see the correlation - so you were abused as a child, and THAT is the only reason you choose to do porn? Huh? Got to be more than that going on here.

Look at me - defending porn? Maybe I've been invaded by space aliens today, I know, must be the crappy weather!
I love the crappy weather. Our sales are up 25%, thanks to all the folks trapped at home with their computers.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:46 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Default Re: Erotica = Smut = Porn

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Okay - can we all agree to disagree?

I, as a woman, don't feel that ALL women are exploited in the sexual industry. Most have freedom of choice, regardless of whether they were sexually abused in childhood or not. I'm sure you have some that feel they were forced into the industry and just as many that chose the industry by their own free will as they wanted to make fast, good money with little effort (per say).

There's good and bad in every industry and this includes the porn industry. You have those that will exploit anyone to make a fast buck and those who won't. Porn is not unique in this aspect.

I can't get on board with the blanket statement that porn exploits women (period). Just can't. And when does being abused in childhood mean that someone will turn to porn or that if you're in porn, then you must have been abused (based on the stats that have been touted here).

What does ONE have to do with the OTHER, really? I was abused as a child for many years and I'm not part of the porn industry. I fail to see a direct correlation between childhood abuse and f***king my ass off in a porn film.

Regardless of the stats, and I'm not disputing them as I haven't done the research - I fail to see the correlation - so you were abused as a child, and THAT is the only reason you choose to do porn? Huh? Got to be more than that going on here.

Look at me - defending porn? Maybe I've been invaded by space aliens today, I know, must be the crappy weather!
Ian, how exactly did you hack into MWIL's account
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:46 PM   #139 (permalink)
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I thought about it, but I have nothing to hide. I am sure she had her own negative emotions during those tough times.
If she is showing her frustration here, then it is her real frustration, it will be good for both of you to know what your frustration is and try to avoid it in the future.

We don't know what's in the other one's mind if we don't talk out, if we don't know what the other one really likes and doesn't like, then it is difficult for us to please them.

Misunderstanding can really drive a couple apart, and this kind of mistake is what we should avoid!

As long as we have a sincere attitude to work hard so we can have a better and happier marriage, that's all we need!
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:53 PM   #140 (permalink)
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You are upset because women demand to not be treated like a blow up doll anymore? And then you make a thinly veiled threat that American men are ordering women from other countries because American women won't be that doll. Yes, somehow I see how you are so oppressed.
And just so I understand male vanity is limited to impressing women but a woman's vanity is because she is a money grubbing ***** hell bent on seperating a man from his money? Gotcha. Yeah, you aren't a misogynist.
Writer, eh? Does writing for porn count as a writer? We aren't talking Hemmingway here. Unless of course you are DrunkExPatWriter from another website. In that case, you are a literary poet.

Actually, there are plenty of "respectable" writers who write erotica under pseudonyms, and you'd be shocked if you knew.

Yes, writing erotica counts as being a writer. But if that isn't enough credential for you, I also had a New York Times Best Selling Novel back in the 1990s. 9 weeks. First book.

Since then I've been writing about four, five books a year, blog posts, journalism, and academic papers on three different subjects. I average about 15,000 words a day. I've been translated into seven different languages.

That work for you?

And sure, you can call me a misogynist if it makes you feel better -- pardon me for having strong feelings on a subject I'm passionate about. I guess guys are just supposed to shut up and hold the purse, right?

If American women don't want to be treated like "blow up dolls" (which demonstrates a profound lack of understanding about male sexuality to begin with) then they can just accept the fact that American men will be finding alternatives -- porn, prostitution, clandestine affairs and mail-order brides -- for the foreseeable future. Things are trending pretty powerfully in that direction now, and I don't see any sign of it changing any time soon. Your generation might not feel the full force of it, but the coming generation will. Men are marrying later and fewer, but marrying more foreign nationals. Sex is a major component of that. By 2020, 1 in 5 females over 40 will have had their last realistic shot at a long term relationship. Marriage rates are projected to decline significantly. The number of single women in competition for marriageable males is expected to double by then. Already we're seeing a decline in the number of college-aged men who say they see themselves married in ten years.

But call us misogynist. We LOVE that. That helps a LOT. Especially when we're trying to have a serious conversation about a serious subject we take seriously.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:54 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Ian, how exactly did you hack into MWIL's account
I'm just that persuasive. Ask my wife.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:00 PM   #142 (permalink)
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MarriedWifeInLove, if you won't do the research how can your opinion have any validity? You can have an opinion, of course, but if you keep that opinion when someone else has done all the work for you to see the reality and you still keep your opinion that is bad. Typical but bad none the less.

Ian, I'm actually hoping you'll shorten your responses a wee bit as it's becoming a full on effort to have a conversation with you. Conversations with you seem baited with hooks. I wonder if this is how others feel about me...

I would never promote diamonds or other fancy things that come at the expense of other women and men. EVER.

Let's be Frank here or Franketta even, people are selfish and they enjoy when things are in their favor because we are all individuals with self contained physical, emotional and mental sensations. At the same time, we are stuck with a conundrum, because all of our true happiness comes from connections with one another and the world around us. You can see the problem here, yes? It is both the beauty and the horror of our humanity.

You may think I am not an advocate for men but you're wrong. I understand their strong desire for sexual satisfaction and exploration as well as their innate desire to provide and feel that they are worthy of the empire they build around them. I am also an advocate for women and I understand their strong desire to connect with and feel loved by a man as well as their desire to create a nurturing and safe home.

Yes, I am generalizing here. Men and women will always fall off the norm and so this might create more struggle when they do.

In general, what is the answer? It is in the connection itself but what happens instead? We actually disconnect and take sides, indulge in our selfish desires as they are easiest to achieve and ask for and we are sure of them. The very thing that comes with ease is the very thing that works against our own contentment.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:15 PM   #143 (permalink)
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Actually, there are plenty of "respectable" writers who write erotica under pseudonyms, and you'd be shocked if you knew.

Yes, writing erotica counts as being a writer. But if that isn't enough credential for you, I also had a New York Times Best Selling Novel back in the 1990s. 9 weeks. First book.

Since then I've been writing about four, five books a year, blog posts, journalism, and academic papers on three different subjects. I average about 15,000 words a day. I've been translated into seven different languages.

That work for you?

And sure, you can call me a misogynist if it makes you feel better -- pardon me for having strong feelings on a subject I'm passionate about. I guess guys are just supposed to shut up and hold the purse, right?

If American women don't want to be treated like "blow up dolls" (which demonstrates a profound lack of understanding about male sexuality to begin with) then they can just accept the fact that American men will be finding alternatives -- porn, prostitution, clandestine affairs and mail-order brides -- for the foreseeable future. Things are trending pretty powerfully in that direction now, and I don't see any sign of it changing any time soon. Your generation might not feel the full force of it, but the coming generation will. Men are marrying later and fewer, but marrying more foreign nationals. Sex is a major component of that. By 2020, 1 in 5 females over 40 will have had their last realistic shot at a long term relationship. Marriage rates are projected to decline significantly. The number of single women in competition for marriageable males is expected to double by then. Already we're seeing a decline in the number of college-aged men who say they see themselves married in ten years.

But call us misogynist. We LOVE that. That helps a LOT. Especially when we're trying to have a serious conversation about a serious subject we take seriously.
You are passionate about your thing and I am passionate about mine. If men want to "find alternatives -- porn, prostitution, clandestine affairs" then don't get married. Period. I wouldn't marry somebody like that and yet for some reason you seem to think single women should just be grateful to have a man that would do that. Just so you also know, women are delaying marriage, children and family too. So a guy cannot handle that a career might be important to a woman and heads down South to find a woman....so be it. There are just as many Ricos down there who would be over the moon to marry a strong woman who speaks her mind. To each there own.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:23 PM   #144 (permalink)
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You are passionate about your thing and I am passionate about mine. If men want to "find alternatives -- porn, prostitution, clandestine affairs" then don't get married. Period. I wouldn't marry somebody like that and yet for some reason you seem to think single women should just be grateful to have a man that would do that. Just so you also know, women are delaying marriage, children and family too. So a guy cannot handle that a career might be important to a woman and heads down South to find a woman....so be it. There are just as many Ricos down there who would be over the moon to marry a strong woman who speaks her mind. To each there own.
Actually, women aren't delaying marriage by choice, according to the Great American Sex Survey 2010 (this is kind of cheating, because the full report hasn't been released yet, and I'm privy to the raw data. Nevertheless . . .). Women report wanting to get married at an average age of 25 (though the age they actually get married the first time is 28), and over 70% of unmarried women in relationships would seriously consider marriage with their current partner if asked.

Compare that to less than 30% of men in the same demographic.

So while women may say that they want to delay marriage for a career or other considerations, the fact is that American men are just not asking them to get married, and aren't showing much inclination to ever do so (and the current economy only makes things worse for marriage-minded men!)

As far as mail-order-husbands go, good luck. If you want a Rico, get a Rico. But you might want to acquaint yourself with the expectations of a wife in a traditional Latin (or Arabic) marriage would put you a lot closer to the "blow up sex doll" category than you'd ever be with an American man. Not to mention culturally approved levels of domestic violence. Sure, they like a strong willed woman who speaks her mind . . . but when the lights go out, the male marital prerogative is alive and well. Good luck with that.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:30 PM   #145 (permalink)
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Actually, women aren't delaying marriage by choice, according to the Great American Sex Survey 2010 (this is kind of cheating, because the full report hasn't been released yet, and I'm privy to the raw data. Nevertheless . . .). Women report wanting to get married at an average age of 25 (though the age they actually get married the first time is 28), and over 70% of unmarried women in relationships would seriously consider marriage with their current partner if asked.

Compare that to less than 30% of men in the same demographic.

So while women may say that they want to delay marriage for a career or other considerations, the fact is that American men are just not asking them to get married, and aren't showing much inclination to ever do so (and the current economy only makes things worse for marriage-minded men!)

As far as mail-order-husbands go, good luck. If you want a Rico, get a Rico. But you might want to acquaint yourself with the expectations of a wife in a traditional Latin (or Arabic) marriage would put you a lot closer to the "blow up sex doll" category than you'd ever be with an American man. Not to mention culturally approved levels of domestic violence. Sure, they like a strong willed woman who speaks her mind . . . but when the lights go out, the male marital prerogative is alive and well. Good luck with that.
Honey, I wouldn't be marrying him.
Wasn't the survey already realesed on AskMen?
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:35 PM   #146 (permalink)
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Actually, women aren't delaying marriage by choice, according to the Great American Sex Survey 2010 (this is kind of cheating, because the full report hasn't been released yet, and I'm privy to the raw data. Nevertheless . . .). Women report wanting to get married at an average age of 25 (though the age they actually get married the first time is 28), and over 70% of unmarried women in relationships would seriously consider marriage with their current partner if asked.

Compare that to less than 30% of men in the same demographic.

So while women may say that they want to delay marriage for a career or other considerations, the fact is that American men are just not asking them to get married, and aren't showing much inclination to ever do so (and the current economy only makes things worse for marriage-minded men!)

As far as mail-order-husbands go, good luck. If you want a Rico, get a Rico. But you might want to acquaint yourself with the expectations of a wife in a traditional Latin (or Arabic) marriage would put you a lot closer to the "blow up sex doll" category than you'd ever be with an American man. Not to mention culturally approved levels of domestic violence. Sure, they like a strong willed woman who speaks her mind . . . but when the lights go out, the male marital prerogative is alive and well. Good luck with that.
So what is your solution then? Just continue to tell women to suck it up and deal? So exactly how would that be an advancement from say the 60's or 70's? It is still mens needs/wishes/domenance over women. Nothing has changed.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:39 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Honey, I wouldn't be marrying him.
Wasn't the survey already realesed on AskMen?
Different year. It's an annual survey. I'm working on the 2011 version, now.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:42 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Brennan, go to your roots and get a male order husband from Sweden. They do so very much right when it comes to male/female relationships and the treatment of both men and women.

Although, I do have a Latin husband who was born and raised in Bolivia until he was 7 and he is a Rico that fully supports my dreams even if he doesn't quite understand them.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:43 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Brennan, go to your roots and get a male order husband from Sweden. They do so very much right when it comes to male/female relationships and the treatment of both men and women.

Although, I do have a Latin husband who was born and raised in Bolivia until he was 7 and he is a Rico that fully supports my dreams even if he doesn't quite understand them.
Exactly.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:46 PM   #150 (permalink)
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If she is showing her frustration here, then it is her real frustration, it will be good for both of you to know what your frustration is and try to avoid it in the future.

We don't know what's in the other one's mind if we don't talk out, if we don't know what the other one really likes and doesn't like, then it is difficult for us to please them.

Misunderstanding can really drive a couple apart, and this kind of mistake is what we should avoid!

As long as we have a sincere attitude to work hard so we can have a better and happier marriage, that's all we need!
Sent her an invite to this thread...he he...hi babe
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