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Erotica = Smut = Porn

25K views 259 replies 23 participants last post by  lucky_guy 
#1 ·
Webster:
Pornography = "the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement"

Porn is defined by it's purpose, not necessarily by it's content. In general, sexual excitement is driven differently between men and women.

My position is any woman who reads erotic novels (which is a HUGE market) can't have an issue with men enjoying other forms of pornography.

Let the debate ensue...
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#2 ·
While I have no issue with porn, there is a difference between movies/nude magazines and an erotic novel: in reading an erotic novel, you are using your own imagination to bring it to life, and could therefore put you and your partner in the fantasy. With a movie or magazine, you have an image other than your partner. And often people have a hard time thinking that you won't think of that image. Kind of like how you can read a book, and picture a character, but then you see the movie based on the book, and after that you can never read the book without picturing the actor/actress who played that character. People think that it would work the same in this situation.
 
#25 ·
I think that's a quite arbitrary distinction. Erotic novels, romance novels, daytime dramas ("soap operas") even things like Grey's Anatomy are "porn" for many women: they are artistic media designed to elicit a sexual response. Essentially the same thing as hardcore for men. Women are just wired differently.
 
#3 ·
Interesting thoughts. I am not an erotic novel reader and we occasionally watch porn together. I'll be real honest though, I would be very hurt if hubby watched by himself. For me, I guess it would be what would be going through my head. I'm not good enough, not sexy enough, just not enough. Silly thoughts but that would be what would be racing through my brain. I think this is the case for alot of women. In erotic novels it is just words so the reader has to conjure up an image of what they think the characters look like. With porn, that isn't the case. These are real, living women and often times very attractive. I think alot of women feel like they would be compared to these women and that is a very unsettling feeling to those of us who already suffer from esteem issues.
 
#4 ·
Nothing to debate about, for me. It is what it is, either porn or erotic novels. It's a turn on. I love both :D

Porn = motion picture
Book = mental picture

I am sure many men, if they only knew who their SOs conjure up in their minds while reading, would have problems with their own self esteem, too.
 
#5 ·
The last time I read an erotic novel was when I was in high school - during the Paleolithic Era.

People can justify doing anything anytime to anyone. It reminds me of kids who get caught: "Well, he did it first!" or another common version, "Well EVERYONE else is doing it!"

My ex looked at porn. A lot. I found all sorts of files on our computer where he stored his "stuff." I wasn't snooping. I didn't suspect anything. But I found it. No, we didn't have a crummy sex life; quite the contrary. When I confronted him with my discovery, he blew me off by saying, "It's just 'eye candy.'"

Result: our sex life fizzled. Not because he was viewing the porn; because of him blowing off my concern and hurt over what he was doing. Bottom line: there are men who don't look at porn and there are women who don't read erotica.

JMO.
 
#7 ·
Good posts. I find the whole topic of sexual media so interesting.

I think there is a general misconception by women that guys fantasize about having sex with the women on the flics or compare their significant others to them. While that may be the case for some guys, I don't think it is any more the case than women picturing Fabio or Robert Pattinson as their leading man.

Guys don't typically picture having sex with these girls just like they don't pretend to be the guys. They do, however, get sexual excitement from watching two people obviously enjoying the pleasure they are giving and receiving.

I believe it is the guys responsibility to reasure their parnter of this fact and let them know how beautiful they are as well as how beautiful the act of making love is, either taking part in it or watching it. It is also important that watching porn or reading books does not take precidense over the time spent between spouses. You can kill two birds with one stone by watching together or reading a story/scene to your lover.
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#9 ·
Ok, point taken. I guess it is then the fantasy that they are enjoying themselves. For the actors, it is their chosen job and they get paid for it.

Amature porn is just as beautiful, I think even more so.

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#11 ·
Agreed. Non commercial porn is the only thing I will watch. Normal people without lame scripts having sex. BF/GF or husband/wife. They do it because they want to and it is hot. Commercial porn to me, is not....well accept Pirates. That is just beyond awesome. Two couples on that set are actually married, btw. ;)
 
#10 ·
Another thing I am curious about those who prefer their partners not look at porn...where do you draw the line?

Assume both partners are compatible sexually and are happy with the quantity and quality of sex. At what point would masturbation become unacceptable:

-using your imagination, visualizing your parnter...or someone else
-reading an erotic novel visualizing your partner...or someone else
-looking at cartoon/hentai
-"artful" still pictures of nude couples without penetration...with penetration
-Cinemax/softcore 9 1/2 weeks type scenes
-amature porn video
-commercial plain vanilla porn flick
-fetish porn flick
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#14 ·
I am very open sexually. I have no issue with nudity or sexuality at all. Black and white nude pictures of good looking people is what I would consider art. Total art. If we didn't have teenage boys and who bring their somewhat puritan friends around, I would have black and white nude art hanging on my walls....everywhere. The human body, be it woman or man is something sexy to me. Commercial porn to me is not sexy. It is scripted and phoney and not something I get turned on by.

I don't think masturbation is ever unacceptable. Ever. I do it daily and I know he does it often.

I think porn though has become a larger issue. I don't think nude photos are porn. I think webcams and live requests are porn. Downloads of women doing whatever the male paying customer wants is porn. Playboy? Not porn to me. Society has changed and so has the definition of porn. Back when Playboy started, it was porn. Now? It's for the articles. :rofl:

I know that YOU don't ignore and discard your wife because of porn but for every guy like you out there, there are 3 more who wonder "why doesn't my wife look like that" or "why doesn't my wife do that". When she finds out about his porn habit, it is soul crushing. Her mind races with why am I not sexy enough, why don't I do enough, why am I not enough.

If you read here long enough you will see a general theme. My wife is overweight, doesn't turn me on, doesn't want sex with me, doesn't do it for me. So the husbands turn to porn. Do they not seriously understand how counterproductive their actions are? Do you think for a second that any wife would want to have sex with a guy who basically got a hard on watching porn and then comes in to the bedroom? It is mind blowing but I have read it here time and time again. If she only, if she would, if she would just. There is a reason she doesn't want sex with him and it isn't because she doesn't like sex......she just doesn't like sex with him!
He needs to up his game but instead? Porn. That works, right?:rofl:
 
#13 · (Edited)
Interesting Brennan, you kinda answered my next post. There is a "line" if you will, on what YOU like. Let's take that a little further. If you are OK with some form of porn, is it OK to impose your preferences on your spouse, just a question.

I would like to say that I think we should be all open minded and that I personally don't have a line and that I would not impose a line. However, I probably do have a line and would impose it, child and real non- consensual porn.

Funny you mention Pirates. I have heard that a lot from women. While I do enjoy some commercial porn from time to time, mainly for the production value and good lighting, I thought Pirates was just as cheesy as the rest...I and I love Pirates of the Caribbean and Johnny Depp. Pretty much the only commercial stuff I watch is made by Digital Playground (producers of Pirates).

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#16 ·
You make a key point on "proper" porn use. You can't discard your spouse to it. Now if you spouse cuts you out then by all means, that is your only way to get your rocks off. You also need to reassure your spouse that you find them irresistible and porn is no substitute.

You mention others comparing their spouse to the actors. Few points there. I think both spouses need to put 110% into their physical and psychological sexuality, NO EXCUSES! If one spouse is going to the gym and eating right, they have the obligation to push their spouse to do the same. Kids, chores, finances, headaches be damned. You boyhood need to find a way to split all the daily hassles of life up and make it happen.

Also, I want your take on imposing your boundaries of what you find distasteful porn. Take your preference for example, would you tell your husband not to watch hardcore fetish porn, say BDSM?
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#17 ·
I like reading erotic stories. I like to form sexual images when I want to cum, erotic stories help me a lot here. It is strange that porn doesn't help me here. I guess we all have different minds.

I get horny by watching porn, especially good porn. But after I cum, porn becomes boring to me right away!

Porn is a tool, if you use it well, it helps you.
 
#21 ·
My position is any woman who reads erotic novels (which is a HUGE market) can't have an issue with men enjoying other forms of pornography.
maybe you mean that you disagree with a women having issue with it since of course she can have issues with it.
 
#23 ·
Yes, that is what I mean. If she is OK with literary porn, which generally appeals to a womans genetic predisposition to drive sexual excitement, she should understand a mans gentic predisposition for the same. I think the man has the responsibility to effectively communicate why visual porn works for him vs literary porn, and it is the womans responsibility to try and understand their differences.
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#22 ·
This is an interesting topic. I really like reading POV's of both men and women in regards to erotica.

My wife and myself have watched erotica together (I still remember the first time. I have to say it was amazing and VERY suprising), but we haven't for a few years now. I know that for both of us, it needed to at least seem real (there was one that we watched that had a bad moaning/groaning overdub...a real mood killa) and it was best if it was man/woman couple orientated. (My wife always made comment on how biased it was to see woman on woman often, but never man on man....).

Why haven't we gone back? Having children in the house is one of the main issues. It just doesn't seem right to her to think that the kids might bust in on us being entertained, if you know what I mean. Would I go back? Yes, I would love to enjoy watching erotica with my wife again, but if she says no, its not a deal breaker
 
#47 ·
This is very interesting for a couple of reasons and underscore some key male/female differences. For example it seem that you and your wife each liked viewing Eritica/porn whatever you want to call it but, she will not have it now that the kids are in the house our of fear that you may be "discovered" I would be curious to know weather this is really the case or subliminally if she feels she is really doing something wrong. You seem to indicate you would be OK with it and i am reading into it that you would like to use porn again but, don't "push" the issue. If you were to lock your door wouldn't the issue of being "discovered" be elliminated. I think there are other forces comming into play here.

I think that this underscores the validity of Janie's recent post about (women and sexuality). Having traveled to some European countries i have noticed that many have much more open attitudes toward sex than here in the states. Since both american women and their foriegn counterparts sharet the same genetic structure then we have to look toward how girls are raised to understand some of these issues.

Very interesting! Sorry if i got the thread off track.
 
#26 ·
As both a reader and writer of erotic novels, I can agree that they are "porn" for both men and women.

And as a professional in the porn industry, I can assure you that there are plenty of women who enjoy video porn, although the demographics and the subject matter might surprise you.

But once you recognize that men are sight-dominant when it comes to sexual selection, looking for women who fit genetically predetermined standards of "good breeders", women are more "success dominant", that is, finding erotic excitement in the idea of a successful man, better described than pictured. Romance novels, soap operas, and other institutions of female-oriented porn tend to revolve around specific types of men, rather than their physical bodies. Although, to be fair, the hero in question usually has ripped abs and gorgeous eyes.
 
#27 ·
Some years ago I found a secret stash of H's porn mags (a shock at the time). I was curious so I read them. All of the text was anti-wife propaganda. There were tips on how to take your mind of your wife when having sex with her. They took a very definite position that anyone reading them hated their wife - everything in there was geared up this way. These were just cheap corner shop type mags. If the writing had been about a different subject - say racism - it would be banned. It made me see H in a different way.
 
#28 ·
I want to vomit again from this post. Why oh why did I venture into the "Sex in Marriage" topic as it rarely ends nicely for me and is rarely about sex in marriage.

Blah. How do you compare a sex industry that promotes the objectification and falsification of REAL women to the pages of a book?

How? How? How? OK, I get from another thread I read (although I didn't read details) that IanIronWood is from the porn industry. Wow, great. You must have a big penis. Ironically, a big penis isn't even valued by women as much as it is valued by men. teeehehe

Sorry my insomnia is self indulgent, I apologize in advance for my blunt honesty. I also apologize to myself for ever stepping into this part of the site...WTH was I thinking, I usually avoid it like the plague for my thoughts don't normally coincide with the thoughts of others.

Whatever, anyway, I've dealt with the atrocities of the sex industry and there were no large penises involved or maybe they were but they weren't the norm. There were women who felt that the quick money was better than a long and arduous road to their dreams, oh and then how many nightmares to face over the 12 year old who was in a sex slave house in Thailand where she was purposely addicted to heroin so that she could be laid in beds next to other young girls only to have men pay to take advantage of these drug addicted girls. Oh I could go on...but who cares right? Hey! Men need sex after all!

NOT!

Ironically, I'm not a prude. I just don't take stock in or value pointless sex that causes more problems than solutions and allows for a quick fix that takes away from elsewhere while also taking advantage of women and men who are quite confused about what equates intimacy.

The writings of an erotic book come from a singular imagination.
 
#46 ·
Come on now Trenton, I like a woman with a strong opinon who is not afraid to speak it...

Blah. How do you compare a sex industry that promotes the objectification and falsification of REAL women to the pages of a book?
Trenton, do you think that the majority of women imagine their husbands as the impossibly handsome, incredibly romantic, wildly passionate and can offer fresh new love when they read romance or erotic novels? Do you think they imagine their husbands when this perfect man ravishes them after perfectly teasing them with unfulfilled sexual tension?

The fact is that we men and woman have different preferred media for deriving sexual excitement through depiction of erotic behavior (the very definition of porn).
I guess these erotic novels do not falsify men...
 
#29 ·
You women could stop buying that Smut called Glamour off the drug store shelves.

I see that smut lying all about work with teh women I work with - "How to give your guy the best blowjob ever." and so forth.

At least guys consume the stuff in the privacy of their own home.

Then I get a lecture from Trenton on porn.
 
#31 ·
For anyone who cares,

I don't read erotic novels - bored by them - I mean how many times can that knight in shinning armor take the love of his life into his arms and...boring!

I don't like Cosmo

I do love Star, National Enquirer, Globe, etc. - are they considered smut?

And I don't do this often, but Trenton is right on target with the confusion on intimacy between men and women. Intimacy to me in my husband and I together, experiencing the wonders of each other and enjoying ourselves, it's not watching two unknown actors humping each other on the screen - that's not intimacy - it's pure, unadulterated sex!

I know the difference...
 
#34 ·
I do love Star, National Enquirer, Globe, etc. - are they considered smut?

.

Yes. They represent a type of abstract sexual voyeurism that many, many women enjoy. By living vicariously through the tawdry lives of celebrities, you are indulging in a media designed to elicit an erotic (although usually not overtly sexual) response. Talking about Brad and Jennifer breaking up is as exciting to most women as talking about the cheerleaders at the superbowl is to most men.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I see no difference in watching two couples have unadulterated sex and using your imagination. In the end it is the same thing. Guys, unfortunately, lack the wild and vivid imagination of a woman, but are much more visually stimulated.

Trenton, do you think that the majority of women imagine their husbands as the impossibly handsome, incredibly romantic, wildly passionate and can offer fresh new love when they read romance or erotic novels? Do you think they imagine their husbands when this perfect man ravishes them after perfectly teasing them with unfulfilled sexual tension?

The fact is that we men and woman have different preferred media for deriving sexual excitement through depiction of erotic behavior (the very definition of porn).
 
#48 ·
You've got to see the talk I post from Ted.com in the ladies lounge in a bit. You will be laughing so hard. It's a talk given by a female cartoonist and her cartoons are so funny. In one cartoon there are two girls on the carpet with one having a cute little doll and the other a Barbie doll in a two piece bathing suit and the one little girl says to the other girl, "I haven't decided what I'm going to be yet when I grow up a good girl or a ****."

hehehehe
 
#73 ·
Sorry Brennan, I just don't see the difference. Porn really is just fantasy.

Let's draw a scenario here. Let's say I watch some porn and then go about my merry way.

A couple hours later I FANTASIZE about the scene that I saw. Granted, my short term memory sucks, so I will have to muster up as much imagination as I can, but is there really a difference between getting my rocks off with the action going on in front of me or in my mind? Isn't that the same think women do when they read the books. When they fantasize, is it some vague smoke monster right out of a scene from Lost produced by Salvador Dali, or is it Johhny Depp or Robert Pattinson or the scene from The Notebook?
 
#75 ·
It's about fantasy for you but it is very real for someone else. In that it is actually happening or has happened in REAL life. It's as if you're so limiting that you believe the world begins and ends with you.

Do you see no difference in watching a crime scene on television that is made up rather than watching the REAL videos of Al Qaeda chopping heads off of REAL people?
 
#84 ·
It's about fantasy for you but it is very real for someone else. In that it is actually happening or has happened in REAL life. It's as if you're so limiting that you believe the world begins and ends with you.
"very real for someone else" -- I mentioned just how "real" a professional porn set is in another post, but let's focus on the "real" for a moment: the majority of porn on the internet is actually amatuer stuff, made by consenting couples for their own enjoyment and the enjoyment they get by sharing the video. Heck, I'm sure more than one of you has made such a video yourself, whether you've shared it or not.

Utterly real, authentic sexual experience. But you're right, to me, it's a fantasy. Just like "reality" television is about real human drama, "reality porn" is about real, authentic human sexual interaction. Real, real, real.

So what's the problem?

Do you see no difference in watching a crime scene on television that is made up rather than watching the REAL videos of Al Qaeda chopping heads off of REAL people?
Sure, big difference. But the acts of violence that are depicted are the same, despite the difference in "reality". We can get into a really deep discussion about depictions of violence v. depictions of sex, but this is probably not the best thread for that.

In any case, I can tell fact from fiction, if that's what you're asking.
 
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