Drayvius

I have spent a little time since last night thinking and what I can really come up with is this. And I dont really see how any can argue with this, but well see what happens.

I havnt read that post, however I STILL dont believe that it is porn that is harmfull. Its the person. We can replace the word PORN with almost anything and that sentance can still be true. Can be beer, video games...any OTHER hobby. Period. ANYTHING that someone over indulges in is a bad thing and can cause a problem.

Therealbrighteyes

I agree with you on that. I do think however that sexuality is such a strong drive in all of us and porn seems to make alot of men feel like "Hey, she isn't doing that with me" and they then feel that their sex lives are awful when in reality it wasn't. It plants the seed. It did in his case and he took the worst route out.
The onus is however on the person, not porn.

Catherine602

[OUOTE] As far as making unreasonable expectations of the women. I can kinda see that, however, if a man has watched porn before, and they see something they wanna try.....whats wrong with trying it?? (again, within reason) I mean if a women watches a romantic movie or something, and sees a nice romantic date, or romantic get-a-way and thinks to herself. That would be so great. Even thou the guy in the movie isnt the guy you are married to. So ultimatly you are setting your man up for failure. Yes, some men will live up to that, a lot will fail to live up to it. But men dont tell women not to watch romantic movies or read novels or anything like that. (generalization I know, but works as far as people I have known and met) We do the best we can to be that man for you.[/QUOTE]

For most women, some level of romance is essential to maintain the desire for their partner. This comparison is so common.

If understand you: is the equation that if a man satisfies a basic female requirement to maintain desire for her partner by being romantic, she in turn must allow herself to be used as warm holes for him to use to live out porn fantasies?

Lets see what would the female corollary be. if she satisfies your basic requirements for orgasms and frequent sex in exchange for you working long and hard to make $300,000 a year to give her a luxury lifestyle she sees in magazines.

You should not impose your porn fantasies on her and she should not impose her fantasies of riches on you. You should expect her to accept you for the man you are and not consider you a means to an end like you are a mule working in a gold mine. Likewise, she has the right to expect that you accept the woman she is and not consider her a means to an end, like she is a porn star.

To think that the need for romance is not needed is equivalent to woman thinking sex is not a need for men. The men who have a problem accepting a women's need for romance should easily understand a woman not accepting a man's need for sex. It is ignorance on the part of both.

reachingshore

"The Blue Lagoon".

Win - Win

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If you must say yes, say it with an open heart. If you must say no, say it without fear. - Paulo Coelho

MissLayla1986

this perhaps reflects my conservative upbringing, but i've always thought porn was an inherently abhorrent and disgusting phenomenon. i don't see any context in which porn can be innocuous to a marriage, let alone helpful. the people in those videos are surgically enhanced actors who have sex for a living, and they engage in acts that are driven by lust alone, not passion or love. so of course porn doesn't convey a realistic view of what sex should be like. it destroys marriages because it warps expectations and concepts about sexuality.

Trenton

Then we get back to the "other" argument...is porn a bad hobby because it knowingly objectifies vulnerable REAL woman to acts they agree to by default without deserving the treatment?...

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Syrum

Not true, as all ready shown earlier in the thread even a small amount of porn does change the way men view sex and women and become aroused.

Also the little bit of porn is highly likely to contain women who have been taken advantage of , degraded, perhaps raped and violated, and it involves willingly contributing to an industry that hurts women.

Hardly the same as having one beer.

And it's not just that one thread, from I've read in this very short time it's a recurring theme. It's a major problem in many relationships. Because many men refuse to see it as damaging when clearly it is.

Runs like Dog

Well then if you object to the porn aspect of porn, then take out some sex guides that lay out ways to change, spice up or otherwise improve your sex. It doesn't have to be greasy dirty monkey sex. But if you're not interested in any of that and are happy to "lay back and think of England." then at least be honest about that.

Grayson

I've not read the thread, but my gut reaction is that porn is not the "cause," but rather the scapegoat.

It's reminiscent to me of young murders/suicides being blamed on role-playing games like Dungeons & Dragons, video games, music, etc. I believe that, in such situations, there's already another, underlying problem. The games, the music, the porn, the tv shows, the movies...those are, at best, related only in that the person committing the act(s) uses those as an excuse for their behavior: "It wasn't MY fault I killed that girl...it was listening to U2's 'Exit.' It wasn't MY fault I cheated...I watched 'Debbie Does Dallas Again,' and just HAD to screw some random woman." Possibly the most notorious case of this is Charles Manson's alleged inspiration by the Beatles' "Helter Skelter.". As the late Sam Kinison said, Manson would've gotten the same "message" from the Monkees.

In many cases, though, I think that even the person involved makes no such connection. But, for example, "D&D Suicide!" makes for a better headline than "Depresses, introverted, socially awkward teen who has many interests which also include role-playing games.". Likewise, "Porn makes people cheat!" is a more dramatic headline than "People who have problems with commitment, watch football, and enjoy music as well as porn are included among cheaters."
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Grayson

I no more believe that porn is (or is meant to be) indicative of nor setting expectations of "real-life" emotional/sexual relationships than I think "Bones" is indicative of nor setting expectations of forensic anthropology as it relates to solving crimes.

They're all works of fiction.

If they're not, I don't want a mystery illness...with "House" as an indicator, I may ultimately be cured, but I'll bleed out of every orifice first.
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Catherine602

Very well said, finally someone understands!!

I am glad you agree, porn is indeed fiction and as you say is as applicable to real sex as House is to real medical practice. You would not want to be a patient of Dr. House just like I would not like to be subjected to sex acts that are based in fiction. I am glad that you have stated the problem so succinctly.

The problem is that men do not realize the fiction. To use the your analogy, I would not like to have a relationship with a man whose ideas of a good sex is -how closely a woman's sexual performance approximates the fiction of porn. I would starve to death, figuratively. Starve for my man to see me as a woman with my own unique sexual attributes, impossible to stuff into a fictional porn video.

It is so refreshing that you can understand so clearly and empathetically.
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Therealbrighteyes

Quoted for truth! It's great that this guy sees it that way but as you mentioned many do not. Ian even said that what is done in porn should be used in your bedroom and becomes a "teaching tool" on how to make men better lovers. I pointed out to him that most porn is geared towards the mans needs and devalues the womans. If a man were to take what he learns in porn and bring it to the bedroom he would be an incredibly selfish lover and a bad one at that. Many men see things in porn and think it should be standard fare in their sex lives. If you have a partner that is game with that, then go for it! Many don't though and they see things in porn that doesn't occur in their own relationship and start to think their sex lives are terrible because of it. The problem didn't exist until the seed was planted.

reachingshore

I still don't understand how it is porn's fault. It's like blaming a Superman movie for an adult guy going to the top of a building and jumping off thinking he can fly (because he saw it on TV so it gotta be true).

It's not the movie's fault. Something's faulty with that guy's perception.

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If you must say yes, say it with an open heart. If you must say no, say it without fear. - Paulo Coelho

Therealbrighteyes

Oh, don't get me wrong....it's the persons character for sure. What I was trying to say is that for many men they view porn and feel a sense of entitlement about what they see being done on film. They then want that in their own lives and if that doesn't happen they get upset and resentful or worse, seek it elsewhere. Many cannot separate fantasy from reality and are not strong enough to understand that 3 somes or double penetration is not their God given right and not standard fare in most bedrooms. Like I said, a seed gets planted.

reachingshore

That kind of a guy will not be able to keep a real woman then. Sooner or later he will learn that in order to keep her he's gotta change. It's his problem. He may fly on TV, but in RL somebody else holds the strings, so to speak.

It all comes down to boundaries again. And a woman also has to be strong enough to stick to her own guns.

As far as I understand in this thread we've been discussing porn in general terms. Is it harmful in general or isn't it?

It's a different subject altogether whether I view porn as harmful in my relationship. Boundaries and perceptions differ from person to person. I stay away from speaking up on somebody else's perceptions or boundaries. The only case I see myself jumping in is when I see a woman who feels he watches porn so he isn't attracted to her physically. That his watching porn somehow reflects on her attractiveness and thus on her own perception of herself. Now that is BS. Unfortunately we women are very susceptible to that.

YOU are a goddess. Believe it, live it.

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If you must say yes, say it with an open heart. If you must say no, say it without fear. - Paulo Coelho