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Old 03-16-2011, 08:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Last chance letter to my wife - what do you think and what do I do?

Dear my beautiful wife
I have a problem. It is my problem, but it affects both of us:
In the years we have been married we have complemented one another perfectly. As a partnership we are perfect in nearly every way, and it does not surprise me that our marriage has worked successfully for so long when others our own age fail to do the same. We agree on where we want to go in our lives, and what we need to do to get there. With you, I make better decisions in my life and thatís a fact.
The one and only area which causes me concern is our intimate relationship. I donít just mean sex, though I can see why it might seem that way. Whilst you have never been incredibly touch-feely, I have always responded well to physical intimacy. I have always liked to know the person I am with wants to be with me by what they do, rather than by what they say.
Whereas you have changed a little over the last few years, in that your desire for physical intimacy may have declined slightly, mine on the other hand has changed significantly, and it is in this Ďgapí the problem lies. Frankly, I find myself yearning for a relationship which includes far more desire and passion than ours. We have discussed this over the years, as the issue has developed. I understand when you say that sex is not so important to you, and that you believe I am being unreasonable in what I am asking of you. Please understand this is important to me, and I hope that is enough for you to give this issue the consideration it deserves.
Regarding sex: I wonder if we have managed to create a situation whereby we are rarely intimate without sex. This may be as a result of a combination of factors: you believe any intimacy will lead to sex, which you may not want; I believe the chance of rejection is so high I am not inclined to instigate intimacy unless I want to have sex. We either have sex or we do nothing, even though there is so much more to intimacy than just sex.
Whatever we do, I hope to produce in you a response which indicates your pleasure. I want to develop our intimacy, so that we want to be with one another without the pressure. I want us to be comfortable with one another, and honest about what we desire.
I thrive on your response to me: my desire is inherently linked to yours, and if there is no evidence of desire for me by you, then it is difficult for me to express my desire for you. Sex has therefore become a chore: having sex provides relief, rather than pleasure (like a fix). I want us to have sex because we want each other, not just because it has been ages and I canít take it anymore!
The feeling I get when you really hold me against you tight, when you kiss me passionately, and when we make love together (as opposed to just me making love to you) is so rare that is has become a fixation for me. I notice the gaps between these expressions of our love more and more.
So we go round in circles: I donít want to come to bed early because I donít want to lie there staring into the dark frustrated, having been rejected by you (again). When we do make love you barely respond, so there is more relief than enjoyment for me; there certainly is not the pleasure I believe we would otherwise have if it were a more relaxed, natural activity. I have long gone past the point where I would consider stopping making love to you to ask you why you are not joining in; instead I just get on with the task in hand.
Sometimes it is different, and we experience a mutual, enjoyable passion that reminds me why I love you so much. That this is possible for us makes it all the more frustrating that these occasions are so rare.
And so, I find myself asking questions:
How important is this to me, and how does its importance compare to the other elements of our partnership which are so good?
Can I honestly be happy in a marriage which does not include these elements?
Can you and I create a marriage which includes these elements?
If not, what do I do about it?
You always asked me to talk to you before I go to the point where I would consider an affair. Though I am not at that point (indeed I donít know where it is), I need to know you understand my feelings so that we can work out a way to avoid that situation together.
Please know that I am not asking for some kind of fake act on your part; you either want me or you donít. Just know that I love you and I want you, and all I want is for you to want me too.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last chance letter to my wife - what do you think and what do I do?

I think this is a very well written heartfelt letter. I think you should give it to her.

I would suggest that you may want to remove the affair part though - it could be construed as a threat and may detract from the rest of the letter. It could become the focus instead of a side line.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last chance letter to my wife - what do you think and what do I do?

Thanks mary35. I did wonder about that - and certainly did not want to make any idle threats. The think is, I have raised this with her before and she insists there is no problem here. Expecting sex more than once a fortnight with someone who actually gives something back is unreasonable, apparently!
Thanks again for taking the time to read it. I will think on your advice
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last chance letter to my wife - what do you think and what do I do?

Jarvis,
Context matters a lot.

How old are you/she?
How long have you been married?
How often do you have sex?
How often does she reject you?
What kind of shape are you in compared to when you married?
What was your sex life like before marrying / early marriage vs now?

As you have learned sex is mechanically simple, but passion can be incredibly complex. I am a very logical person. Imagine my confusion when my W told me directly: "I don't like being spanked" and yet when she is being physically difficult naughty and I say "Do that again and I WILL spank you" and she does it again - knowing full well what I am going to do.

Does she like it or dislike it? YES. She dislikes it. AND it turns her on. So instead of trying to have an Encyclopedia sized conversation with her about this - I simply warn her when she is being very difficult. And when she gives me that devilish smile and persists......

Are you possibly "over loving" your W? Take a look at the link below.

The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarvis View Post
Dear my beautiful wife
I have a problem. It is my problem, but it affects both of us:
In the years we have been married we have complemented one another perfectly. As a partnership we are perfect in nearly every way, and it does not surprise me that our marriage has worked successfully for so long when others our own age fail to do the same. We agree on where we want to go in our lives, and what we need to do to get there. With you, I make better decisions in my life and thatís a fact.
The one and only area which causes me concern is our intimate relationship. I donít just mean sex, though I can see why it might seem that way. Whilst you have never been incredibly touch-feely, I have always responded well to physical intimacy. I have always liked to know the person I am with wants to be with me by what they do, rather than by what they say.
Whereas you have changed a little over the last few years, in that your desire for physical intimacy may have declined slightly, mine on the other hand has changed significantly, and it is in this Ďgapí the problem lies. Frankly, I find myself yearning for a relationship which includes far more desire and passion than ours. We have discussed this over the years, as the issue has developed. I understand when you say that sex is not so important to you, and that you believe I am being unreasonable in what I am asking of you. Please understand this is important to me, and I hope that is enough for you to give this issue the consideration it deserves.
Regarding sex: I wonder if we have managed to create a situation whereby we are rarely intimate without sex. This may be as a result of a combination of factors: you believe any intimacy will lead to sex, which you may not want; I believe the chance of rejection is so high I am not inclined to instigate intimacy unless I want to have sex. We either have sex or we do nothing, even though there is so much more to intimacy than just sex.
Whatever we do, I hope to produce in you a response which indicates your pleasure. I want to develop our intimacy, so that we want to be with one another without the pressure. I want us to be comfortable with one another, and honest about what we desire.
I thrive on your response to me: my desire is inherently linked to yours, and if there is no evidence of desire for me by you, then it is difficult for me to express my desire for you. Sex has therefore become a chore: having sex provides relief, rather than pleasure (like a fix). I want us to have sex because we want each other, not just because it has been ages and I canít take it anymore!
The feeling I get when you really hold me against you tight, when you kiss me passionately, and when we make love together (as opposed to just me making love to you) is so rare that is has become a fixation for me. I notice the gaps between these expressions of our love more and more.
So we go round in circles: I donít want to come to bed early because I donít want to lie there staring into the dark frustrated, having been rejected by you (again). When we do make love you barely respond, so there is more relief than enjoyment for me; there certainly is not the pleasure I believe we would otherwise have if it were a more relaxed, natural activity. I have long gone past the point where I would consider stopping making love to you to ask you why you are not joining in; instead I just get on with the task in hand.
Sometimes it is different, and we experience a mutual, enjoyable passion that reminds me why I love you so much. That this is possible for us makes it all the more frustrating that these occasions are so rare.
And so, I find myself asking questions:
How important is this to me, and how does its importance compare to the other elements of our partnership which are so good?
Can I honestly be happy in a marriage which does not include these elements?
Can you and I create a marriage which includes these elements?
If not, what do I do about it?
You always asked me to talk to you before I go to the point where I would consider an affair. Though I am not at that point (indeed I donít know where it is), I need to know you understand my feelings so that we can work out a way to avoid that situation together.
Please know that I am not asking for some kind of fake act on your part; you either want me or you donít. Just know that I love you and I want you, and all I want is for you to want me too.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last chance letter to my wife - what do you think and what do I do?

Mem11363
We are in our early 30s
Married 10 years
sex is about 2 or 3 per month, 99% instigated by me
I am rejected about 4 out of 5
Both physically fit and slim
It has never been great. I know I have changed, and my need for a wife who wants me and doesn't just lie there and do nothing when she does agree to make love has become an issue for me over the last few years.
No chance of my over-loving her. If anything I have learned to keep away due to fear of rejection.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last chance letter to my wife - what do you think and what do I do?

Personally, I'm not a fan of writing letters for this sort of thing. What you need to do is generate sexual tension and attraction in your marriage, this begins with you, not her. You want her to be attracted to you again, but this letter will make sex into a burden or pressure, in your situation you should be thinking to lighten the environment in the house, not make it heavier.

Hit the gym, spend less time around the house--either hanging with some friends or becoming involved with hobbies and projects. Find the guy you were when you two were dating, and in the meantime, treat your wife like a date. Walk into your house every day with the frame of mind that you're your own man, and she'd do well to JOIN you as you make these changes and better yourself, because you're a catch. It'll confuse her a little bit, but don't let her in on what's going on. Right now, you need to focus on generating lust, and I don't think a heartfelt letter will do that.

Read every single post in this thread and digest it, thinking of how it applies to your situation and how you can fix it:

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Old 03-16-2011, 09:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last chance letter to my wife - what do you think and what do I do?

Thanks Blue Moon
Gym is not an issue, and I am a martial arts instructor. My work and our hobbies mean we are rarely under one another's feet!
The date idea is a good one. Unfortunately lust for my wife means letting me do everything (and I do mean letting), rather than joining in any more than usual. I just don't know how to convince her to let her hair down and indulge.
I will go through the threads, thanks for the reference.
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last chance letter to my wife - what do you think and what do I do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarvis View Post
Thanks Blue Moon
Gym is not an issue, and I am a martial arts instructor. My work and our hobbies mean we are rarely under one another's feet!
The date idea is a good one. Unfortunately lust for my wife means letting me do everything (and I do mean letting), rather than joining in any more than usual. I just don't know how to convince her to let her hair down and indulge.
I will go through the threads, thanks for the reference.
Yeah, if you're a martial arts instructor, I'm sure you have no problem in the fitness department! Whatever you do, just think of this more as a passion/sex thing, and not love. She can love you to pieces but you have to move her to the point of wanting to jump you. In addition to those threads, I have some e-books and other reading material that has circulated the boards. If interested shoot me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send some literature your way.

This is a journey, think of it as a challenge and go into it with enthusiasm. Good luck my friend.
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Moon View Post
Personally, I'm not a fan of writing letters for this sort of thing. What you need to do is generate sexual tension and attraction in your marriage, this begins with you, not her. You want her to be attracted to you again, but this letter will make sex into a burden or pressure, in your situation you should be thinking to lighten the environment in the house, not make it heavier.

Read every single post in this thread and digest it, thinking of how it applies to your situation and how you can fix it:

The Man Up and Nice Guy Reference
This and this. It was a very heartfelt letter, I just don't recommend giving it to her.

The letter will not produce the desire you are looking for. It will further kill it and she will engage is guilt/chore sex with you.

You need to change your sex initiation method. Asking for sex kills desire. Asking for sex is needy. It turns it into a chore and a bore.

Quote:
It has never been great. I know I have changed, and my need for a wife who wants me and doesn't just lie there and do nothing when she does agree to make love has become an issue for me over the last few years.
This is the key. This is a HUGE sign that you are not creating passion or desire in her. She has lost sexual attraction towards you. You may also be too gentle and soft during lovemaking.

I'll bring over some tips I posted on another thread.
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last chance letter to my wife - what do you think and what do I do?

This is a post from another thread where a man has the same problem as you do.
Read the whole thread here: Wife doesnít feel the need for sex.

Quote:
Some things that have helped:

*Spicing up the bedroom with toys and variety of positions

*My H has started being more aggressive in bed-he still asks for sex sometimes, but he gets much better results by pouncing on the bed and playfully mauling my neck, telling me to take my clothes off, chasing me around the house, etc.

*Get me off first (or really close) so that he can thrust hard and fast and not worry about me. I find this very pleasurable. Otherwise, we always know we can do other stuff after for me. Either way, we no longer look at sex as a one act wonder so there is not as much pressure.

*An idea to help with oral...have an intimate shaving session. I'm a lot more open to it since I have started shaving and I wish my H would do a little shaving down there, too.

*Teasing and flirting. I cannot tell you how important this is for sexual desire. Sadly, most married people stop doing it. Start flirting and teasing your wife...sext her once in awhile.

*Come up behind her and kiss her neck
*Put your hand(s) on her waist

*See if there is anything you can do to improve your physical appearance. If you need to drop a few pounds or whiten your teeth, get a hair cut or anything like that. Put on her favorite aftershave or cologne.

*Take her out on fun dates once a week...or at least a couple times a month. Don't just settle for dinner and a movie. Try different things...do stuff where you can talk to eachother and do something physical sometimes.

*My H seeking me out to have conversation with me...we even shut our bedroom door so we can focus just on eachother and not the kids. Conversation with my H is seriously like foreplay for me.

A lot of sex is mental. This is good and bad. If she is willing to change her thinking about it that can go a long way to change her level of desire. She needs to start thinking about sex with you more, though. I'm actually kinda surprised she is masturbating, but not having sex. That makes me think it really isn't hormonal....it is that she isn't sexually drawn to you right now.

Really, be more aggressive is the best advice I can offer. Make her laugh and giggle! Tease and play with her. Create some passion.
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:40 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last chance letter to my wife - what do you think and what do I do?

I also don't think this letter is a good idea. I don't mean this to come across as mean spirited but my initial reaction was.....do you want some cheese with that whine???? Sorry....just my gut reaction.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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J I think the key to the problem is stated very clearly in your letter.

I don't think it is a good letter because it is a fiction. You are not happy and your relationship is not perfect. It may be perfect for your wife but not for you. You are negating your needs in favor of her, in my opinion. I think it means that you don't think you should have a problem with sexual rejection.

Would you be willing to read up on male sexuality and the role of sex in marriage for men? Do you feel depressed and lonely with the contant rejection, unloved, unattractive, unappreciated, in your marriage? If so do you know why? Because you don't have sex frequently enough to maintain the emotional connection with the woman you love.

I know because I had a problem in my marriage understanding my husband and his desire for sex. I really don't understand very well but I know it is true. It seems that most women don't understand male sexuality and we operate under that misunderstanding.

If you are sure that your reaction to sexual rejection is normal then you can be more assertive about your needs.

I think you should rip up the fictional letter and write it again when you feel loved the way you need to be loved. Good luck.
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:14 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I think the letter is extremely well-worded and heartfelt as well as an invaluable tool to straighten out your thoughts. But I don't think you should edit out the affair part and here's why: I don't think you should ever give this letter to your wife. Use it for what you've used it for...an outlet and a vehicle to organize your thoughts. Communication is obviously huge in any relationship, but one thing I've learned and will take to heart WHEN (not if) I start succumbing again to the overwhelming sense of hurt, humiliation, and depression that comes from rejection is this: talk all you want, express yourself however you wish, but ultimately, the only thing that will bring about change in HER is YOUR actions.
Women who have no sex drive or no desire to fulfill or acknowledge a need for sexual fulfillment are like The Terminator: they can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with; they don't feel pity, or pain, or remorse (ok, that might have been a bit over the top but you get my intent ) Seriously, back to what I was saying...nothing you SAY will make her want you (and that is what you need to happen). My d!ck never got hard from being out-debated or effectively reasoned with...neither will she get horny from a similar course of action. What makes women sexually attracted to men is how they act.
You're a martial arts instructor...I'm in the military. So we both understand combat. The Art of War: know your enemy and know yourself. If you know yourself and not the enemy, you will be vanquished; if you know the enemy and not yourself, you will be vanquished; if you know the enemy and you know yourself, in a thousand battles, you will never know defeat. This is so many practical applications and marriage is one. Your wife is not the enemy of course, but you have to A) know yourself; and B) know your wife (women).
A combination of renewing life within yourself, turning down the thermostat (as has been mentioned and I think you said maybe the thermostat in your marriage might be turned down anyway because of your understandable aversion toward rejection), making yourself less available both physically and emotionally, start acting as though you're single (ease into it), add an air of mystery, and one of two things will happen: she'll either notice and become more interested/attracted to you; or she won't notice and therefore not change or she will notice but it won't matter to her and she won't change. If the latter happens, then you can prepare yourself for the next step which may be MC, continuing to make yourself less available while doing things that you want to do for yourself without her approval or permission while opening up a few lines of communication or, if it goes this far, perhaps separation. But that's a long ways down the road.
Regardless, life is short bro. You need to follow what makes you happy and your wife isn't doing that now. So start doing what makes you happy that does not involve her. If she sees you less available but happier and more confident, she should become intrigued. Lots of other good advice on this thread too.
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The letter will have no affect on her sexual moods. I wrote one of these letters once. Logically convincing her about the reasons you need sex will have no affect. You have to connect with her at an emotional level by meeting her needs for a period of time, and do it in such a way that you are not doing good deeds for sexual favors. You have to make her feel that you love her and she is special to you. When she is emotionally "into" you and happier in her overall life, she will become more sexual.
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:26 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I also don't think this letter is a good idea. I don't mean this to come across as mean spirited but my initial reaction was.....do you want some cheese with that whine???? Sorry....just my gut reaction.
A man or woman has every right to have feelings towards lack of sexual intimacy, or intimacy period. They are basically roommates that have sex a few times a month, how is him having feelings him whining? men are allowed to feel as well...all i have to say to you is WOW!
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