MarriedWifeInLove

Okay, TAM buddies - I need your help. I’m willing to take advice or input from anyone, but I’m really looking for some male input here. Please excuse the length, but to get proper advice, I need to not leave anything out.

I’ve already made my decision to stay in the marriage, for the time being, due to many issues concerning my husband’s health, etc., so any advice to leave would be fruitless for me at this point.

I really need advice on how to deal with the situation at hand, in the framework of the marriage, not outside of the marriage.

From reading my previous threads, most of you are aware that my husband had a TBI and suffers from many physical and cognitive issues and takes several medications daily and also drinks, even though he is not supposed to.

This has caused a lot of problems, the main one, for me, being the lack of sexual intimacy in our marriage. At this point, even though we are sexual intimate on occasion, I would classify my marriage as sexless.

He is a huge porn-hound (for lack of a better term), and it appears that this is not going to change anytime soon.

I have gone from confronting him about his porn use (useless), to looking at his computer history, to snooping at his e-mail and anything I could think of at the time. I no longer do this as the only person that was becoming stressed was me.

I foolishly believed that he was not masturbating and this was just visual stimulation for him due to the ED issues caused by his TBI, meds and drinking. I was wrong. I actually walked in on him about a week or so ago and he was going at it but didn’t know that I had entered the room as he had his eyes closed. This was a particular evening when he couldn’t sleep and I couldn’t either and I actually walked in on him several times and he was trying to masturbate pretty much all night long and it would not cooperate – guess you have to give him an A+ for perseverance. Interestingly enough, he was not on the computer and there was no porn on it or the TV, it was just him on the couch. I did not confront him, at the time, or say anything about what I walked in on.

This past weekend I was at the end of my rope, sexually, and finally confronted him with everything – things I have kept to myself and things I knew that he wasn’t aware of that I knew, etc. I calmly (at first), stated that I knew he was viewing porn everyday, that I knew about the live web cams and sex chat sites (livejasmin and xhamster), that I knew that he was visiting sex dating sites (this was in the past mainly, but he has viewed a couple recently, but no profiles), and that I didn’t and couldn’t understand why he wouldn’t touch me, especially because he had previously told me that SEX was not his #1 priority – that recovery from his TBI was – due to his porn use this is apparently not true.

I asked him to please tell me why he wouldn’t have sex with me and what the real issue was. I told him that I really wanted to know and that it didn’t matter if it hurt my feelings – that I deserved to know because I couldn’t work on or change something if I didn’t know what it was. He refused to answer, would not give me an answer of any kind, just remained silent.

Though he did adamantly deny any use of porn. Now mind you, he has downloaded it and burned it onto more than 1,000 DVDs that are stored in our computer room, in plain sight – but he denies viewing or using it (I guess they got downloaded via aliens). He actually looked me straight in the face and lied to me without even blinking. He could not and would not admit that he was viewing porn. He also denied masturbating, even though I confronted him with the fact that I walked in on him – he told me I was crazy and didn’t know what I was talking about.

At this point, I got extremely angry and frustrated as the man was lying right to my face and trying to deflect the guilt by throwing in back on me that everything was my imagination.

I tried to explain to him how it made me feel, that he preferred porn to me – that I couldn’t and wouldn’t compete with the internet and that it wasn’t fair to me that I didn’t even know what the actual issue was because he wouldn’t talk to me. I told him that I was not only willing to do what he wanted in the bedroom but that I actually had – actions instead of words, so I didn’t understand why he was continuing to reject me. I told him that I couldn’t and wouldn’t live in a sexless marriage forever and that there would be consequences if this was the route that he was going to continue to take. That perked him up – he actually wanted to know what the consequences were. I told him that I had not made a decision as to exactly what I was going to do – but that I had to do something if this is where we were headed long-term.

I also mentioned to him that I thought he had a porn addiction. That I had done research and the constant use of porn and masturbation instead of sexual intimacy with your partner was a sign that there might be a porn addiction. No response.

He would not tell me what the real issues were except to say “I’ve told you before and you don’t listen. When I wanted sex, you weren’t available, now that you want it – well, I’m older now, have issues and it’s just too bad.”

I’m not sure what he is referring to as I have never rejected him – but he believes that I have and no matter what is said by myself, or our MC, he won’t move off this stand, he actually believes this happened, even though it didn’t. I even went so far as to accept responsibility for something I didn’t do and asked him to forgive me just so we could move forward and he said he couldn’t.

Another possible issue, he casually mentioned one day (a couple of months ago), that I was “too pretty to be carrying that around.” I didn’t know what he was talking about until he mentioned my stomach. I have to admit it is pretty gross as I have hanging, excess skin that actually covers my pubic area and lies on the top of my thighs – he said that it was gross and that he couldn’t help it but he couldn’t stand to look at it. I offered to start covering it up, but he said that wouldn’t work. I did accuse him of being shallow to which he admitted that he was and couldn’t help it. None of this was said with malice and I took it quite well and acknowledged that I understood. Surgery has been approved and will be scheduled next month to take care of this issue – it will no longer be an issue by the summer.

For the first time in a while, I did look at his computer history after the confrontation this weekend. I discovered that he wasn’t on porn for two days after the confrontation, but he couldn’t sleep last night and was back on it. I think what hurts the most is the live web cams (one way, we don’t have one) and live sex chats – these almost feel like cheating to me as these people are live and not just images on a DVD. I also brought this up to him during the confrontation – but he denied even knowing what they were.

My attractiveness, as his wife, does not appear to be an issue (besides my stomach). He frequently tells me I'm pretty, that he loves my boobs, etc., but won't come near me.

So, what I’m looking for is some men to put themselves into my husband’s shoes, with the scenarios I’ve laid out above and give me some idea as to what he may be thinking and what, if anything, I can do at this point.

Some of my questions are:

- Is the perceived resentment he’s holding that I rejected him for years and he is now doing tit for tat part of the issue? If so, how do I overcome this?

- Is my stomach part of the issue? He has mentioned that it grosses him out. Once the surgery is complete, what happens if this is NOT the issue and things don’t change?

- Is the porn the REAL problem or are there underlying issues that he won’t talk about, other than what I’ve listed above? What do I do if I can’t get him to talk about them? I’ve tried myself, with our MC and nothing is working.

- Are the numerous disagreements and fights over the past few months the problem? Has he emotionally disconnected from me because he feels I’ve been a ***** and that’s why he won’t come near me as he doesn’t feel connected to me? If so, what do I do to bring back this connection (I’m working diligently on the *****y part).

- Patience is not one of my virtues. How long should I be patient, while he works out his demons and I work out my own?

- If he no longer feels like a man due to the ED issues and TBI, how do I get around this and bring him back to me? Since he knows that drinking makes everything worse – why is he still doing it – is it because it gives him an “excuse” to not be intimate with me – such as – hey, look – it doesn’t work – sorry. How can I, as his wife, help get him past this? Could this be the biggest issue and he’s embarrassed to discuss it with me?

- Why is he embarrassed to admit that he is looking at porn and masturbating? This was never an issue in the past – he used to masturbate for me to it. Why the change? Due to his TBI? ED? Me?

I’m really looking for some sound advice here. I’ve decided to stay and try to work this out, I’m too damn stubborn to leave. But nothing I’m trying is working and I’m running out of ideas.

I’ve read the Five Love Languages – just haven’t figured his out yet, he wouldn’t take the quiz. I’m part of several free marriage help websites and read their e-mails and advice daily (including one about sexless marriages). I’ve downloaded and purchased several e-books and paperbacks and have read them cover-to-cover. I am in counseling and we are both in marriage counseling – what else can I do besides practice patience and continue to take care of myself?

Thanks for your time and attention, I really do appreciate it – I need some shoulders to lean on.

__________________
"Don't Find Fault - Find A Remedy" Henry Ford

MarriedWifeInLove

Views and no advice?

Come on guys - I'm not asking you if you have the same problem and it doesn't even matter if you do/don't or haven't experienced what I'm going through.

I'm asking you to put YOURSELF in his shoes and see things from his advantage and help me here.

Please...

__________________
"Don't Find Fault - Find A Remedy" Henry Ford

anon_4_now

You have read my post so you know I am not an Authority on a successful marriage but I am going to jump in with my .02 worth.

All of these abbreviations are killing me on this site...
In my military career, TBI = Tramatic Brain Injury. Sorry, I haven't gone back to look through your other posts. Is that how you are using it too?

I think that if TBI is Tramatic Brain Injury then all of your questions are hard to answer. We can only answer from a non injured brain point of view and it could be 180 degrees from what's really happening.

If he really feels that you neglected him for years, the resentment could have definitely killed his drive. I’m dealing with that right now.

I can’t imagine that the loose skin would really be a major issue. For me, it could be hanging down to your toes and if I really loved you, I’d look past it. Assuming it is purely cosmetic, DO NOT HAVE THE SURGERY JUST FOR HIM! The expense and pain will not be worth it if he leaves you. I am pretty sure that the surgery is mostly for you though.

“Is porn the REAL problem” Are you asking if we think he prefers porn over you? I don’t think so. *most* men look at porn for the visual pleasure. Having a real body next to them is *usually* much preferred since the tactile, scent, taste sensations are much better. ED is a major issue I think. I know that if I couldn’t get an erection then I’d have serious emotional issues. I wouldn’t want to be physically intimate with my wife knowing that I couldn’t perform.

If I read your other posts (if you mention the fight details in them), I might be more able to answer this. I’ll do that once I post this. My initial response would be that a few months of being a ***** shouldn’t cause long term resentment/disconnect unless you were really ruthless (belittling him about his ED etc..)

That is 100% your call, nobody can tell you what your threshold should be. I’ve waited nearly 15 years at this point for my wife to work out hers. Just now getting close to my threshold. Other friends have told me they would have left after 1 or 2 years.

Time, Personal and Alcohol Counseling are the only answers here.

Could the TBI actually be causing memory/personality disorder issues? He could also be frustrated at his inability to perform by himself.

Jamison

I really do not know what to tell you, other than I'm really sorry you're going through all of this. It seems quite the cycle.

I can give you a little advice as to what I think, just remember, its just an opinion.

Since you have clearly stated you wont be leaving or not right now anyway, here is my thought based on you staying. I do not know why for sure and can't speak for him as to what the real issue(s) might be regarding him looking at all the porn and rejecting you. It could be a mixture of things.

He may have addictions (which it seems to me he does) and it may have to do with your stomach as you even mentioned. Resentment on his end for whatever reason is a high possibility as well.

I also understand because of his medical issues there are things he might not can help and may be beyond his control. However, there are some things that I think he can help, and he can get a handle on with proper intervention for drinking, porn etc. Of course he will have to truly want that to stop and to want to seek help. Maybe thats part of the problem, maybe he doesn't want to seek help and stop.

I do believe people can change, if they want to. Maybe he is afraid, who knows for sure. Change is scary for some people. I know you do not want to hear this, and I'm in no way saying it to hurt you feelings or make you mad. However, unless he is 100% committed to working on his issues, and I do mean ALL issues, not only within himself and the marriage as a whole, then chances are this is your life with him. Its your life with him because not only did you choose to stay, BUT because he chose to NOT seek further help and work on his issues within and in the marriage. I'm not saying leave, I'm saying unless he starts working on the things he can control on a consistant basis, then this is how its probably going to be. The thing is, you truly do not know if he will of if he wont, so therefore you hold onto hope, which is fine, but after awhile you have to ask yourself is this false hope or not, and how long do you hold on till you make up in your mind you no longer want to live like this.

Its just my 2 cents, nothing more, nothing less.

ClevelandStve

OK, I have a little bit of experience if you're talking about a Traumatic Brain Injury....

Breaking down his problems...potential alcoholism and on medications. I don't know what the meds are, but they could have sexual side effects. For some men, porn has the advantage that porn doesn't make you feel inadequate if you can't ejaculate due to either meds or self-esteem issues. Tied up with a history of feeling rejected...not a good combination. The worry of rejection COULD also explain his telling you he doesn't masturbate might be a way of him saving face and not feeling ashamed of himself.

If you've decided to stick around, I say get into counseling soon if you haven't already.

AgentD

I know you were looking more for advice from guys, but I was just wondering, since you both are in counseling, what has the counselors suggested for him and what have they suggested for you to try?

If you have tried things the counselors have suggested, then what do they say if they know you have tried those things and they did not work, do they make other suggestions?

I hate to see you going through this. My mother in law will be 80 years old in July. She has told me numerous times she wonders what her life would have been like had she made different choices. I guess we all may think that when we are older. Even though her husband didn't have the issues your husband has as far as the brain issues and thing he can't help, her life with him wasn't a pleasant one and now she suffers greatly from depression because of her choices. (Her words)

Yes, thats just my mother in law, but I just don't want for you to be 70 or 80 years old and wonder, what if? However, I also want things to work out for you and your husband, so its hard I'm sure.

__________________
"If you always do what you've always done, you will always get what you've always gotten."

trey69

I can't really put myself in his shoes though since I haven't gone through the things he as. However, I'm more on your end, the receiving end of all the issues.

I can't tell you why he may be or may not be doing X Y Z. Only he knows, and maybe he doesn't even fully know himself.

I just know you have got to take care of YOU. My first wife was a bad drug addict. No, she didn't have the issues your husband has as far as some of the things he can't help. BUT what was so hard for me with her, was the fact she gave me a bunch of empty promises that I believed, because I loved her and part of me felt sorry for her.

She gave me, what I call and what I have read about, "false hope." She did this, by making promises to do this or that. She told me she would stop. She loved, me wanted to change and get help. She wanted the marriage to work, etc. She would stop things (or so I thought) temporarily to make me think she was trying, and that things were in fact going to work out.

This kind of thing would happen right often and I would react the same way. Get excited and got my hopes up that maybe, just maybe, this was the time, the time that it would all come together. The marriage would work, and we would be happy. She was a good manipulator. Most addicts are. I can not tell you how many times I was disappointed.

I got tired of trying, I got tired of waiting for her to do her part in the marriage and for herself. It took a big toll, I was drained and wore out, mentally, emotionally, and even physically. I could no longer stand by and watch her destroy herself and what was left of our marriage. I could no longer hold on to that "false hope." Only you can decide when that might be.

I entered into a NA program for people who were involved with a loved one who was a drug addict. It helped alot and helped me see things better. I learned to detach with love and do my own thing. Build up my self again because I lost so much of myself trying to be a addicts caretaker. After awhile I decided to call it quits. She had not changed, she just kept feeding me empty promises of change. And even though deep down she may have really wanted to change, she never took the iniaitive to actually try. She just wanted me to think she was going to, so I wouldn't go anywhere and leave. It worked for awhile. That's how manipulators work. They tell you what you want to hear at the time and make you believe they will do this or that, to keep you hanging on, only for them to let you down again by continuing on with their behavior.

This was years ago this happened. The last I heard she had moved on and gotten involved with someone else, and she still is doing drugs. I truly believe she will end up dead and surprised she hasn't already.

I do not know what to tell you, other than I'm sorry, and my wish for you is to either move on and find some kind of peace in your life or for things to work out for you and your husband. No one should to just wait and wonder their life away to see if another person is going to change or not. AND trust me, even though you may detach at times from his behavior, as long as he is still doing some of this behaviors, it WILL always effect you.

__________________
"When people are truly sick and tired of being sick and tired, that's when they will make a change."

Halien

That's a tough situation. As a guy, I'll just answer on instinct, but they could just be guesses. Sadly, one of my good friends had long term diabetes, and when he described the pain of how it affected him, I literally had to go straight home to erase the image from my memory by proving myself.

My initial gut instinct is that he's afraid of the ED. This is a huge fear for some men, like my friend. He's persistant when you caught him alone. Very persistant. Wants it, but the gears aren't clicking. You've seen him at his worst in life, and he knows that, so you have the leverage to humiliate him, if you treated him like he fears that he deserves. If he starts with you, and nothing happens, he's not sure that he can handle it. Would you mock him? May be what he thinks he deserves. Go ahead and poke his eye out if you want to know the level of fear this could cause to some people. Some guys aren't equipped with the emotional maturity to handle this type of situation.

If you think this might be close to what's going on, maybe offer a no pressure approach. Say hey, I just want to feel the closeness for a second. I know the medical problems are scary, so lets just take it slow. Remove his fear, and the problem might go away. You will have to be a saint to do this.

Maybe you disagree, but the porn is the absolute last thing he needs now. Its only raising his threshold to levels that put the real world out of the ball park. In his mind, though, he's proving that it can generate a response. Maybe tell him you will help him, but you gotta take the scissors to the power cord of the computer.

If that's not at all the case, and nothing else works, I'm wondering if you need to go nuclear on him. More like a last ditch plan. Something has to shake him up, though, and it sees like he took the bait when you gave the vague threat. Inform him that the consequences are that you will stay with him, but he will be excised from your personal life with surgical precision. You won't even talk about the options at the time, but they could be that you will deliberately meet these needs one way or another, and you know exactly how to do it. You don't want to hear his whining, either.

MarriedWifeInLove

He is in counseling, so am I and we are together.

But he won't discuss his alcohol use, porn use or lack of sexual intimacy - these subjects appear to be off subject and he won't address them with his counselor alone or us together.

That makes it difficult for me - because he won't actually tell me what the real issues are - I just get crumbs here and there.

He knows there are issues because he will frequently tell me that he loves me, he knows that he's messed up, he knows he's not the type of husband he should be and that he's sorry.

So he does know and even acknowledges himself - but either can't change (because his brain is now too mixed up), or doesn't know how, won't reach out for more help than he's already getting or he's scared and won't admit it.

I don't know - I just know that I'm out of options and I need to try or do something different, what I'm doing isn't working.

But I am taking care of myself.

I look like I did when he married me (weight-wise), let my hair grow, started tanning again (yeah I like it), am dressing good, been told by quite a few people that I AM looking good. And shortly I will have the surgery to return my body back to what it used to look like - skin wise.

Maybe that's part of the problem - I am looking and feeling better and he's afraid I will leave and so if he pushes me and pushes me, then I'll go and it can fulfill the prophecy of him thinking I'm going to anyway.

I just don't know anymore.

__________________
"Don't Find Fault - Find A Remedy" Henry Ford

trey69

Him not discussing the problem with his counselors is likely why things are not changing in that area. As long as he will not fully acknowledge this, its not likely to change.

Personally I'm not so sure why you're trying so hard and need to try something different, its not you that needs to be doing all the trying here.

__________________
"When people are truly sick and tired of being sick and tired, that's when they will make a change."

michzz

When someone so obviously lies about their real behavior for so long you have to suspect that the very air in the room is tainted.

He is so desperate to hide his problem he is driving away the one person who can actually help him.

It is more important to him to deny the problems than to resolve them. For whatever reason he thinks the airing of the problems is worse than the problems.

Classic.

Nothing unique about that because he has a brain injury.

MarriedWifeInLove

I have tried what our counselor suggested (I spoke to him about this alone, my husband would not talk about it when we were together).

He suggested taking the pressure off, sex isn't important - you are, etc.

I did that - for months literally and nothing changed. We still weren't intimate, but the porn use raged on.

Up until this began after his TBI, I wasn't in counseling, I wasn't depressed, I wasn't on medications. I can't say that anymore, the stress has pushed me into all three.

He knows he has issues, he'll admit those (expect for the porn use - that's not happening - according to him). He is in two support groups a week (anger and PTSD), goes to individual counseling and goes to counseling together with me.

But when HE won't truly discuss what those issues are, how can it be worked out - it's almost like he thinks if he ignores it, it will go away??

I'm beginning to think that his brain damage is a lot more extensive than any of us truly know.

And I can "deal" with that - it's the after-affects of the damage that I'm having a hard time dealing with, thus the reason I'm here.

__________________
"Don't Find Fault - Find A Remedy" Henry Ford

MarriedWifeInLove

Okay - I'll bite.

So what can I do to help?

Why is he so desperate? Embarrassment, fear of failure, what?

I'm willing to help as much as I can, but I don't know what to do anymore.

__________________
"Don't Find Fault - Find A Remedy" Henry Ford

marcopoly69

Wow....if he is masturbating, he could be making love to you...I think his problem is that he is no longer in love with you. I mean, my wife had the same issues with the stomach and never was a problem for me, actually she had even a hernia, it was pretty ugly and she was very much aware of it, but never, never said anything to her, on the contrary, I would kiss it and care for it....I mean this is love....you love your husband very much but he doesn't love you back - you should not be going through this is you are the only one fighting for this.....GIVE HIM AN ULTIMATUM, and try to have a break, at least, from him.....

I may not be what you want to hear, but for the length of your writing, I can tell you hurt a lot by this....you should have never heard from someone who loves you that something is gross on you...it just doesn't add up!.....

michzz

Whatever it is it is so deeply rooted he can't even talk about it in marriage counseling or IC.

There is practically nothing you can do about it. Plus, you don't even have him pay any price for it since you wont leave him.

So you are stuck in this lousy place.