bonsai

Thanks for pointing out. After all I'm still a used-to-be-evil-now-practicing-saint human being. Waiting patiently without expectation while staying this course would be ideal but that's not gonna happen like flipping a switch. That's why I'm here in this forum seeking advices and opinions. I'm trying as hard as I possibly can and I'm committed to this. I hope some of you get my point and listen to my cry for help.

Laurae1967

My point is that when people have controlling behaviors as severe as this poster, it is highly unlikely that she will be able to change these behaviors permanently without help from a specialist. The behaviors she described are really serious issues. They don't just go away because a person wills them to.

So focusing on how to get her husband to sleep with her really should be the last thing she should be focusing on. She should be getting herself mentally healthy so that her husband CAN trust her. It's all about her and what she wants right now (narcissists think like that).

And her husband has been burned so much in the past, it is going to take more than some sexy lingerie and porno to get him to trust her again. She needs to make substantive changes, not superficial ones.

bonsai

OK, I heard your point. Loud and clear.

Seeking individual therapy is not one of the top options right now due to financial reason and time management. I can possibly do it when my child is a few months older but not at this very moment. Do you have any useful suggestions otherwise?

PHTlump

I agree that the behaviors are serious. And outside help may be beneficial. But it's not a given. The OP wasn't controlling because the voices in her head told her to be.

What mental health professional would advise a patient NOT to implement healthy changes in a relationship? I agree that she should not try to manipulate her husband into sleeping with her, although I'm still confused regarding how laying back and not using pressure or manipulation is actually manipulative. The fact is, the "fake it 'till you make it" strategy works. You can feel stupid giving your spouse a 10-second kiss at first. The 100th time you give your spouse a TSK, it's just how you kiss your spouse. It becomes normal for you. Without therapy.

That's true. But substantive changes often start as superficial ones. It's called successive approximations. You can turn the inertia of the relationship from negative to positive. That doesn't mean every action from here on will be perfectly positive. But, if the OP is sincere about considering her husband's wants and needs in the marriage in the future, her actions will naturally become more considerate and loving over time.

Laurae1967

I just find it interesting that instead of looking for advice on how to repair the damage she's done to her marriage, she's focusing on how to get her husband to have sex with her. To me, this sounds like she's still only focused on her wants and needs and perhaps isn't fully aware just how damaging her previous actions have been and just how difficult it will be to restore trust.

I guess the bottom line is that I am suggesting that she focus on earning her husband's trust through treating him with respect, honoring his wants and needs and giving them equal weight to her needs, especially while she tries to repair the damage she's caused her marriage.

I'm sorry that I'm not giving simple advice, like kiss your hubby for 10 seconds, but I don't think that is going to do the trick in and of itself. But people often want an easy solution, which is understandable.

PHTlump

I think she has realized how hurtful her actions were. And I think that she realizes that living in a sexless marriage, even though her husband has stated he wants it, is an untenable situation for both parties. Marriages need sex. Even bad marriages need sex.

You may not know that complex problems sometimes have simple solutions. As a husband, if I had a choice between sex and a therapy bill, I would choose sex. And in this case, the husband will only initiate sex when he feels the OP is treating him respectfully and giving his wants and needs equal weight (or more) to hers.

The bottom line, which I think we both agree on, is that the OP will have a better marriage when she becomes a better person (and adequately communicates that to her husband). I just don't think you necessarily have to pay a therapist to talk about your inner child to become a better person. Often, you can become a better person by acting like a better person until your act becomes natural (fake it 'till you make it).

Laurae1967

I agree with everything you are saying, PHT, regarding the importance of sex in marriage. And there are plenty of people who don't need therapy. But there are plenty of people who DO need a lot of therapy.

My husband and I have both benefited greatly from therapy. We have a strong marriage in spite of having difficult childhoods. But we needed therapy to get there. You keep saying "therapy bill" which makes me wonder if you view therapy as a scam or rip-off or something.

I will say this - if screwing your wife can solve your problems, more power to you! But for some of us, we need therapy.

There are many lousy therapists out there, but if you find a good one, they can be a real life-changer. Worth every penny!

PHTlump

I'm saying therapy bill because the husband won't be in the individual sessions with his wife, so any potential benefit to him would be indirect. And what most husbands want is a respectful, considerate, sexual wife. I don't see therapy as a scam, but I recognize that it could harm a relationship as easily as helping it. Also, the OP has stated that individual therapy isn't an option for financial and practical reasons. So, I think alternative suggestions are in order.

For the record, my wife and I spent about 5 or 6 sessions with a marriage counselor. I don't know if it was extremely beneficial, but I do think it was a positive experience. However, some studies estimate that many more couples are harmed by counseling than helped by it. So, I think it may be a better last resort than first.

The OP's husband wants her to be more respectful, considerate, and less controlling. The OP would like sex. I suspect the OP's husband would like sex as well, but is resentful and withholding it as punishment. So if the OP can be more respectful, considerate, and less controlling without professional supervision, why not try that? And if that behavior results in sexual attraction from the husband, which I suspect it will, everybody wins!

bonsai

Well, our anniversary night went ok. We had casual dinner and walked on the nearby beach together for few minutes. After few moments, we started talking about the baby-related stuff, that our baby is cute, etc etc. At that point, I felt very guilty so I told him I was truly sorry that I did not listen to him enough that he wasn't ready for the baby and now he is a father. That was a selfish me and I regret that deeply. He said calmly that the baby is probably meant to be born to us and that's why she is here. He also said firmly that he will not leave me, divorce me, be with another woman and we will live together until death do us apart because now we have to raise our child together. About things between us, he said the ship has diverted slowly and steadily from its course over the past 8 years. He's lived this kind of life for a big while so he doesn't know when he'll be able to trust me again. For example, there were several things he kept from me to avoid the conflicts and fights and some of those will continue for time being. I told him I understand why he did that and I will try to prove to him that I do really want to change ME not HIM so that I can gain his trust back overtime. There are thousand things that I could have done differently and I'm truly sorry that I did not think about them at the time and that he was hurt all the time. I also asked him to help warn me when I start reacting like a control freak again because I do want to change and I need his help. He listened but didn’t say anything further.

I did not ask him about 10-sec kiss as I did not feel he was totally up for it yet and I didn't want to shake his protection shields. Nor did I bring up the intimacy, sex or porn stuff with him. I want him to see that I'm trying to change my behavior to fix our relationship not to win over him. He hasn't said anything about those either and that’s what I expected.

These past few days we start talking more and more although I still feel that conversation is not completely natural yet. He is obviously analyzing my reactions, answers to his questions carefully. I can live with that. That’s not hard at all.

The hardest part for me though is to be able to trust him. What I mean by "trust" is that at night when he stayed until 2am downstairs in his office with his computer I couldn't help but thinking whether he was watching porn again. I know part of it he is avoiding going to bed the same time with me. OK it's a stupid idea of me because if he is not ready to sleep with me yet so he would need to masturbate anyway, either with or without porn and I should accept that because I've made him become this way, right?

Last night I went to bed 1030 with the baby but could not sleep. I was thinking hard whether I should let him know about my feeling or not. Around 1am I decided to go downstairs to his office with my heart pounding. He was browsing the net. I asked him gently if he can come to bed with me because I want to hug him. Also asked him if I did anything wrong so he didn’t want to come to bed early even though I know he was tired. He said he was checking his work for tomorrow and doing this, doing that. I asked his if that was too much of a request, he told me he will try but obviously he can’t come to bed at the same time with me every night. He has stress from work, from baby, etc. Then he vented about wanting to play online games but he was too tired to play.

I know things are getting better slowwwwwly and that’s good. This morning he asked me to give him a back rub and pick his goose bumps skin on the arms (he loves it) so I feel really good that he wants me to do that again. I just hate myself for not letting the porn issue go. I guess, you miss it when you can’t have it.

Laurae1967

It sounds like you did a GREAT job with your husband. You recognized he wasn't up for kissing, etc. and you respected that. He will take note of that.

You are in tricky territory. You betrayed his trust in several ways -through withholding sex and tricking him into having a baby. You need to work to build that trust.

At the same time, he also has to be willing to do HIS part to make the marriage better. That means being honest with you. It sounds like in the past he kept stuff from you for fear of how you would react. But if you are showing him you can be trusted not to freak out or be controlling, he needs to be brave enough to open up to you. And him staying up late on the computer every night is a bad habit.

Just keep showing him you respect him and his needs. And keep telling him about your needs, but do it in a way that will not feel pressuring, threatening or controlling. Some things in marriage need to be negotiated.

Keep up the good work!

And when you have time/money, I do think IC or MC would be great for you both if you can find a good person.

MarriedWifeInLove

The PORN discussion again.

And men defending it's use - again.

They fail to see how destructive it is to their relationships.

And it appears they never will.

__________________
"Don't Find Fault - Find A Remedy" Henry Ford

bonsai

Herrr, it's been a week since I asked him about watching porn together. Initially he said maybe, then at bedtime he said no. I said fine, we'll do this later. I did it in neutral tone as suggested.

My question is, I would like to ask him again tonight because I want him to know that I'm available whenever he is. I also want to clarify to him that my intention is to watch it with him and that I don't need him to have sex with me tonight. The reason why I'm not sure about this is, he hasn't brought up this with me at all but it seems to me like he is trying (or pretending, I can't tell) to be affectionate sometimes by kissing my cheeks, grabbing my booty, blowing me a kiss across the room. This is not consistent though. He can still be tense or quiet every now and again.

Would another request in a week be too demanding? I'm just afraid right now. I've been a NEW ME for a week now and I don't want to mess that up by being "too demanding". But again, I want to send him a message how I feel.

Mr B

He is just humoring you to get you off his back. A lot of women make the mistake, when their husband is heavily into porn and partner sex slows or stops, of suggesting they watch together. Women don't understand that when a man begins to prefer porn over partner sex it is not just the porn he likes it is solo sex itself.

For many men the orgasms achieved through masturbation and porn are much more intense than with marital sex. There is also the unlimited variety and sometimes a love of watching sex acts his wife might find objectionable.

The point being that for most men porn time is me time and having their wives join them would ruin the experience. In other words having her there would kill the fantasy and it's the fantasy that is the main reason he enjoys the porn in the first place.

That being said there are couples who watch porn together but in most cases they are still hot for each other and just use the porn to get warmed up.

The last thing a man who prefers porn to sex with his wife wants is his wife there watching with him. After all his is not a general sexual desire problem (if it was he wouldn't be watching porn and masturbating either) rather it is a problem of his not having enough sexual desire for his wife.

LemonLime

OP, in your situation, if it is only since the first Trimester, I would think he is having issues because he now sees you as a mother rather than a sexual being. You may need to, when you can, have an overnight away in a hotel, get out the lingerie, even watch the porn together and show him you are sexual. I know that the porn can hurt because he is choosing it over you and he was hiding but give it a try as I mentioned above.

marriedinnh

I think she's got a unique situation here. She's done several deeply wounding things to him and over a long period of time. Though, I certainly applaud her attempts to turn things around. That said, I don't think you can judge this guy by the same standards you might judge most men. Because his experience has been very different from most men's.

Switch the roles for a moment and assume it was the husband who'd done the hurtful things and that it was the wife who was feeling understandably resentful. If it appeared that she was so resentful and not wanting to have sex with her husband, that would make sense, right? Even if she'd stated that she'd stay in the marriage and try to make it work. Even if she still had a sex drive but preferred to satisfy that drive by masturbating.

Men aren't just meat, we can carry that same resentments and it can go just as deep. Which is why I wouldn't say he's choosing solo sex over partnered sex. He may not feel as though he's got a partner he wants sex with. And he may not for a while.

Speaking for myself, I use porn when my wife's not available. I'd love it if she were more available or turned on by watching it with me. But I just wish her sex drive was a bit stronger. She's never done anything as wounding to me as happened the poster's husband. I'm honestly amazed he's been so patient and committed.