The immovable object. - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
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post #31 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 02:00 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

You've already shown yourself to be capable of identifying when it's the depression talking. Use that ability. Depression MAKES you want to give up. It MAKES you feel like you don't deserve to be happy. It MAKES you want to wallow in resentment.

It did all that to me too. That made me angry, and I used that rage to change. Then one day I realized I felt better. It was like a fog cleared in my mind and my thought patterns were just...different.

I'm right there with you when it comes to exercise. If it's not something I enjoy doing for it's own sake, I just don't have motivation. I don't like being looked at while I exercise. I detested going to the gym. I did as Anon111 suggested above--bought a weight bench on Craigslist and started at it a few times a week in my garage.

I also found that sunlight made a difference to me--again as long as it was doing something enjoyable. While I like watching a movie in my living room more than pulling weeds in my back yard, just spending a half hour out in the sun would often make a noticeable difference in my mood. Not jumping for joy or anything, but those weights around my ankles trying to drag me underwater would be a little lighter.

Most of all though--the biggest thing for me was finally letting go of my resentment. I'm a ruminator, which doesn't mix well with depression. The meds, the exercise etc helped, but I couldn't get over the hump until I stopped drinking my own poison.

Darling it's better down where it's wetter, take it from me! --- Sebastian
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post #32 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

John, I see you have liked some of my posts on this thread. Be afraid. Be very afraid. Part of my creating this thread was in the hope you would see how dark and negative is this line of thinking. If you are doing what I am doing, you are a very weak and foolish person. I know I am. I get the impression you do not see yourself that way. I am not suggesting you should aim to think or behave any particular way. I am suggesting that you be honest with yourself about your choices.

I polish my pearl of resentment to a luminous sheen. It is my precious. Do not fool yourself into thinking you are not doing the same if you are. Remember, in the end Gollum saved Middle Earth. But he was not intending to do good when he did so.

Last edited by Holdingontoit; 06-09-2015 at 02:36 PM.
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post #33 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 02:21 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

I remember the funk I was in months ago. I felt hopeless. There seemed to be no light in the future. Just a slow decline to death. Unlike H, I was ready to consider divorce not because I saw some better opportunity, but because I saw an escape. The escape was from the constant reminders of what had been. Seeing the prize I desired so close every day. Being taken by no one but still refused to me was almost a physical pain.
H, I can't help you. You have no happy past to remember. No goal for a future. Perhaps the path of least resistance is best for your relationship. It is too bad that your profession has left you with no solace. Most in your position would have a hobby.
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post #34 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 02:26 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
Classic victim of bait and switch. Sex stopped literally the day we got married. No sex wedding night. Sex at first honeymoon hotel after which H2 announces "now it is consummated and you cannot get it annulled".



This is amazing. This just screams I'M A RAGING *****. I am amazed you did not walk away right then and there.
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post #35 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

LITS: I agree with you. We are both damaged. Neither willing to do the work to heal. We frequently say that most people tend to marry someone roughly as messed up as they are. They we laugh and say "hah, and you married ME, so what does that say about YOU?!?!"

I also agree with you I am no peach. I admitted I am not an attractive partner. Not asking my wife to fix me. Not asking for sex. In fact, these days I turn her down when she offers.

I understand I made my choices. Wish I had not barged into having children with her as soon as we got married. The no sex honeymoon should have been sufficient warning. But we were in our 30s and wanted to have kids before we got much older. We proceeded to have 2 kids. I was working full time, trying to get a company started on the side, and doing all the overnight feedings and changings. It wasn't until we took our first post-marriage vacation and there was little sex that I realized this was not "I have 2 little kids at home and I'm tired" but was a relationship problem.

I understand that healthy people would get over it and move on. And make healthy choices. And make the best of their situation. I am not healthy. And I am not looking to get treated. So the floggings (mine of me) will continue. I would say "until morale improves" but I know my morale is never going to improve.

Fozzy: I am not going to let go of my resentment. I am addicted to it. I know it is poison. I drink it anyway. I revel in it. Resentment is my lover. She is entirely faithful to me. She never rejects me. The only thing she asks of me is that I sacrifice myself on her altar. No problem. I wanted to do that for my wife. She (understandably and properly) spurned my offering. Now I worship a different goddess.

Like I said, I am not looking to heal. I stand as an example of "what not to do" and "what not to become". I am the outcome every person complaining about the lack of sex but unwilling to establish boundaries should fear the most. Do everything you can to fix it. Right now. With urgency. But if it cannot be fixed. Get out before you lose yourself. Get out before it twists and mangles you into someone that doesn't want to get out and doesn't want to fix it and just rolls around in the filth of their self pity.

Last edited by Holdingontoit; 06-09-2015 at 05:52 PM.
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post #36 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 02:39 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

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Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
LITO: I agree with you. I said I am not an attractive partner. Not asking my wife to fix me. Not asking for sex. In fact, these days I turn her down when she offers.

I understand I made my choices. Wish I had not barged into having children with her as soon as we got married. The no sex honeymoon should have been sufficient warning. But we were in our 30s and wanted to have kids before we got much older. We had 2 kids. I was working full time, trying to get a company started on the side, and doing all the overnight feedings and changings. It wasn't until we took our first post-marriage vacation and there was little sex that I realized this was not "I have 2 little kids at home and I'm tired" but was a relationship problem.

I understand that healthy people would get over it and move on. And make healthy choices. And make the best of their situation. I am not healthy. And I am not looking to get treated. So the floggings (mine of me) will continue. I would say "until morale improves" but I know my morale is never going to improve.

Fozzy: I am not going to let go of my resentment. I am addicted to it. I know it is poison. I drink it anyway. I revel in it. Resentment is my lover. She is entirely faithful to me. She never rejects me. The only thing she asks of me is that I sacrifice myself on her altar. No problem. I wanted to do that for my wife. She (understandably and properly) spurned my offering. Now I worship a different goddess.

Like I said, I am not looking to heal. I stand as an example of "what not to do" and "what not to become". I am the outcome every person complaining about the lack of sex but unwilling to establish boundaries should fear the most. Do everything you can to fix it. Right now. With urgency. But if it cannot be fixed. Get out before you lose yourself. Get out before it twists and mangles you into someone that doesn't want to get out and doesn't want to fix it and just rolls around in the filth of their self pity.
You said you have children. This is not a good model for your children.
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post #37 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 02:54 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
LITO: I agree with you. I said I am not an attractive partner. Not asking my wife to fix me. Not asking for sex. In fact, these days I turn her down when she offers.
How often does she try to initiate?

Darling it's better down where it's wetter, take it from me! --- Sebastian
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post #38 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 03:00 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

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Originally Posted by Fozzy View Post
You've already shown yourself to be capable of identifying when it's the depression talking. Use that ability. Depression MAKES you want to give up. It MAKES you feel like you don't deserve to be happy. It MAKES you want to wallow in resentment.

It did all that to me too. That made me angry, and I used that rage to change. Then one day I realized I felt better. It was like a fog cleared in my mind and my thought patterns were just...different.

I'm right there with you when it comes to exercise. If it's not something I enjoy doing for it's own sake, I just don't have motivation. I don't like being looked at while I exercise. I detested going to the gym. I did as Anon111 suggested above--bought a weight bench on Craigslist and started at it a few times a week in my garage.

I also found that sunlight made a difference to me--again as long as it was doing something enjoyable. While I like watching a movie in my living room more than pulling weeds in my back yard, just spending a half hour out in the sun would often make a noticeable difference in my mood. Not jumping for joy or anything, but those weights around my ankles trying to drag me underwater would be a little lighter.

Most of all though--the biggest thing for me was finally letting go of my resentment. I'm a ruminator, which doesn't mix well with depression. The meds, the exercise etc helped, but I couldn't get over the hump until I stopped drinking my own poison.
This is awesome.

All of this stuff seems like a trick until you do things like this for a while and your perception of things starts to change. Then you start to wonder what's really real. If simple things like this can actually change your perception (and they can), then maybe your perception is not objective reality.

Here's another trick-- water.

Are you near a beach? If so, go there regularly. Once a week, just take a walk there. Better yet, swim.

For me, the ocean gives me a sense of infinity-- of something so huge I cannot really wrap my mind around it and something so powerful that I can't control.

It helps me put things into perspective.

You can determine "tricks" like this for yourself too. Maybe there are others.
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post #39 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 03:06 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
I am the outcome every person complaining about the lack of sex but unwilling to establish boundaries should fear the most. Do everything you can to fix it. Right now. With urgency. But if it cannot be fixed. Get out before you lose yourself. Get out before it twists and mangles you into someone that doesn't want to get out and doesn't want to fix it and just rolls around in the filth of their self pity.
Do your kids know you think this way?

Would you like to be a positive part of their lives? Do you think you can do this when you treat yourself so badly?
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post #40 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 04:09 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

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Dude, if getting to a better place meant you had to let go of your delusions and what you thought your identity was, would you do it?

Or are you looking to dull the pain just enough to survive?

These are two different things.
Interesting that you didn't answer my question.

So I'm going to assume you're looking for option 2: make it bearable.
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post #41 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 04:27 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

It sounds like you just want to marinate in this misery, so have at it. Like I said before it sounds like a miserable way to live life, but it is your life to waste as you wish. Good luck with all of that.
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post #42 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 05:18 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

Hold, FWIW I am a CSA survivor. I never really had a satisfying sex life until I met my current husband; I certainly couldn't trust my arse of an ex enough to open up to him. He'd tell you I was frigid, but current husband would laugh at that. He thinks I'm a tiger.....but that's only because he's strong enough emotionally for me to really trust. Your wife probably needs the same thing, but with all of your self loathing you aren't able to give it to her. I can tell you that when my husband has foul moods it's really hard for me to hold it together because I rely on him emotionally so much, but I try to suck it up because I know he's entitled to his moods too and I can't expect him to prop me up all the time. Husband may or may not remember but I was fairly vanilla when we met, I've really opened up in the years I've known him so I didn't start out like this. In that sense I'm quite damaged, I just happened to luck out and find a partner who was a good fit for me this way.

I don't think I would've been able to really face my csa while still married to my ex. I'm not at all suggesting you're an arse like my ex, but your marital dynamic is toxic and might be preventing her from any meaningful change as her walls are always up. Maybe the same applies to you.

I don't know why she would've married you given her aversion to sex with you, but heck I married my ex so what do I know? I guess I wasn't completely averse to sex with him in the beginning, but as he began to reveal who he really was I started to shut down. Live and learn I guess.....I have a better grasp of some things now at 41 then I did at 25. Maybe she saw you as a safe provider, maybe she purposely married someone she wasn't into in order to have a reason to avoid sex. Quite possible really since she stopped it after the vows, so theoretically she shouldn't have had time to build up resentments yet.

I honestly don't know if your marriage is really salvageable give both of your attitudes, but I will say that the one who finally throws in the towel isn't necessarily the one who blew up the marriage nor will they necessarily be viewed that way. They could be viewed as the one who ripped the band-aid off and did what had to be done. My ex hated me as much as I hated him but would've stayed married to me and been a miserable pr!ck, I was the one to rip off the band-aid.. It took some years but he's much happier now without me.

Last edited by lifeistooshort; 06-09-2015 at 05:36 PM.
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post #43 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

Sorry, did not notice your post until now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marduk View Post
Dude, if getting to a better place meant you had to let go of your delusions and what you thought your identity was, would you do it?
No.

Quote:
Or are you looking to dull the pain just enough to survive?
Bingo. We have a winner.

Quote:
These are two different things.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon1111
what drives you. anything? you seem like a smart guy. do you apply that to anything?
Nothing. I spend lots of time at work which heavily engages my intellect. Then I go home and veg out. I used to play lots of computer games. Now I watch tv. When the kids were around I went to watch their activities in the evening or drove them home from practice. Now that they are gone (or will be soon) I do some more business travel. Which generally means having meetings all day and then going back to my hotel room to catch up on email early in the morning and late at night. Or getting up early to take the train into the city and then taking the train back at night, which eats up 4 or 5 hours and means I basically leave before H2 gets up and by the time I get home she is in bed watching tv and surfing her ipad and besides a quick daily report about the kids she prefers I not bother her with interaction (sound, or movement, or pretty much any detectable sensation).

LITS: I agree with you. I am a bad choice for her. She thought I was safe because I did not press for sex as forcefully as other guys. She mistook soft for safe. She did not realize I was building a huge pile of resentment. By the time she realized, my weakness and the pile of resentment were more than enough to shut down whatever remaining sexual feelings she may have had toward me.

Fozzy: She initiates once every few months. In between there are snuggle sessions where she gives off signals that she might consent if I initiated, but I no longer explore the possibility.

Best as I can tell from what little sex we have had over 20+ years, she has both responsive desire and a desire to be dominated. But she will not indulge her desire, for the understandable reason that being a rape victim she is terrified of allowing anyone else to have control. As LITS said, H2 needs a strong man who can keep her safe so she can allow him to take the lead. I am not that man. I explained that to her before we got married. I told her I was inexperienced and tentative and that I was looking to "make up for lost time" during marriage. So she went into this fully warned and with her eyes wide open. She did not show me the same consideration. Which is why I have feel justified in not being as transparent as most marriage proponents would suggest I be. I am sure my resentment leaks out. She is not stupid. Far from it.

But as Rick said in Casablanca, she was willing to pretend, and I let her. I will let her pretend for as long as she can maintain the illusion.

Last edited by Holdingontoit; 06-09-2015 at 05:51 PM.
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post #44 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 05:43 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

What are you looking for out of life? You don't want help, and you don't want happiness. If it's just revenge, you picked an odd forum for it.

Darling it's better down where it's wetter, take it from me! --- Sebastian
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post #45 of 563 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 05:56 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

Sorry to hear about how your life is going. I have to say that this post (which is great)

How can I start the sex / affectionate cycle with my wife again?


is totally different mindset than this thread.

Maybe there is some small chance that you are able to change things with your own relationship.
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