The immovable object. - Page 32 - Talk About Marriage
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post #466 of 479 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 12:42 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

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Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
Correct again!

Except the part about defending it. I am doing nothing of the sort. It says right on the first page that my thread is about warning people NOT to do what I have done. I have said many times it is foolish and evil. If that is a defense, I'd hate to see what I write about things I am attacking!

Oh, and in case you didn't notice, you took the bait AGAIN!
Oh, I've held quite a bit in because Marriage Advocates won't allow an honest discussion that involves conflict ... they avoid that like kryptonite.

I understand your position ... I may not agree with it all, but I understand where you're coming from with the exception of the attention seeking. You've made your decision and you're comfortable with it ... why then do you keep posting about it (from my perspective) just to keep getting attention for your "unusual" method and desire to maintain this marital dysfunction? ... or is THAT the motivation ... that even negative attention is better than no attention at all?
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post #467 of 479 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

Thank you for not jumping on my lame attempt at humor. You treated my post seriously, so I will try to address yours.

I keep posting because my situation causes me distress. Not enough distress to change things. But enough distress that I need to "medicate" the discomfort. I medicate by posting. Probably a bad idea in the long run. Because it has helped enable me to tolerate this.

I have no friends IRL. I don't share how I feel about my marriage with anyone IRL. We stopped MC over 11 years ago. It takes enormous effort to maintain the facade. Posting online is my chance to take off the mask and share my true feelings.

Like I said, maybe would have been better if I held it all in and then exploded. But despite the downsides, I continue to choose to stay. If I am going to stay, I need this outlet to vent my frustration. That is part of what enables me to go home and be pleasant. I don't explode because I have talked through most of the likely outcomes and have a response ready. And when I feel like exploding at home, I know if I wait until the next day I can talk through my frustraiton online and calm myself down.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #468 of 479 (permalink) Old 11-02-2016, 03:33 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

That is a very fair response. I hadn't considered your posting as a form of self-medication to help you deal with what has to be an extremely stressful situation. When you put it that way, it's really not much different from the more traditional forms of self-medication that I use to keep the lid on.

I suppose I should just stay off your threads. Something about it just infuriates me to see a guy get repeatedly **** on by a W that I view through your descriptions as deplorable, which is one of my new favorite words, even though you have chosen to accept that treatment as the cost of staying M'd. At least you are dealing with the situation with your eyes wide open, rather than the self-deception that I see is so many of the infidelity recovery threads.

Living in a sexless M is just one of those things that I can't wrap my head around.
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post #469 of 479 (permalink) Old 11-03-2016, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

MyRev: Appreciate your understanding. Yes, I see this as better than drugs or alcohol to medicate my distress. Not to be too down on drugs, because since H2 got the MM card for her cancer she has been much more pleasant most of the time. I don't know how much it helps with the cancer / treatment symptoms but it sure as heck makes her easier to be around. But I am a licensed professional so no illegal meds for me. I do have a drink occasionally after work but I think obsessive posting is better than obsessive drinking.

And trust me, an absolutely sexless marriage is much easier for me to tolerate than the old 1 - 10 times a year. As you dial it back from 50 to 25 to 5 the pain goes up exponentially. But when you get to zero and stay there as a matter of choice, the bulk of the pain goes away. As if by magic. You might think zero would be worse than 5 but it is much less burdensome. At 5, every moment you are together you are thinking maybe this will the time you can have sex again. But at 0, you know it isn't going to happen so the thought "how should I behave to maximize the chances of sex" disappears. And that thought is the source of much anxiety. It is a huge relief to be able to think to yourself "wow, I can do whatever I want because it will have no impact on whether sex happens".

Plus it radically changes the power dynamic. Before, the LD has total control because they can dangle or withhold sex. After, the LD has lost their primary lever. Makes the playing field for negotiation much more level. That feels better.

Finally, when you are as lousy in bed as I am, you eventually realize that sex is not about shared joy, it is about imposing yourself on your partner and them being too polite to admit what is happening. And who wants more of that?

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #470 of 479 (permalink) Old 11-03-2016, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

From another thread. Copied here to avoid hijacking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jld View Post
Are you open to having sex with your wife if she asks you for it, Holding?
No.

Nor am I worried that she will. She doesn't ask, because she doesn't get anything out of it. She only ever offers. I turned her down twice when she offered. She hasn't offered in months.

Remember, we have gone 9 months without sex several times before she got cancer and before I started turning her down. Back then I was trying to have sex with her. Heck, we went months without sex while seeing a sex therapist. I understand that is required during the first few weeks when you are doing non-sexual touch and emotional bonding exercises. But that therapist said it would take her 16 weeks to help us achieve a better sex life. After 16 weeks of nothing, I asked if it was a bad sign that we hadn't done the "hug with your clothes on" exercise yet? So if there is a period of abstinence long enough to get my wife interested in having sex with me, it is measured in years and I am certainly not holding my breath waiting for it to arrive.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #471 of 479 (permalink) Old 11-03-2016, 11:10 AM
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Re: The immovable object.

Eventually, one of you will die and the issues will be over.

Sorry, but it's the truth. At our age, that's what's on my radar now.

btw, why don't you look to make a friend (male) anyway? Just to have some happiness in your life? The kids are grown, fill your time with something enjoyable.
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post #472 of 479 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

@turnera: Exactly. Except that the issues are already over. There is no more conflict. I decided we will not have sex and she has no motivation to trigger conflict over that. So there is no conflict.
Basically I work all week and have acquaintances at work who fill my need for adult human companionship. If I ever get to the point where I can afford to retire, or if there is no one willing to hire me despite my desire to keep working, I will get a dog.

When you can see it coming, duck!

Last edited by Holdingontoit; 11-07-2016 at 03:36 PM.
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post #473 of 479 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

To my surprise, wife came on to me while we were away on vacation with our kids. It was awkward. I did not finish. No idea how it was for her (quite possibly painful) since we do not discuss our experiences. Not intending to go back there. Did not improve either of our moods. In fact, I found her quite snippy after and she accused me of yelling at her. Kids response was "how could he be yelling, we were right next to you and we could barely hear him". Apparently, anything I say that is the least bit critical of her is yelling, and is prohibited if sex has occurred during the past 96 hours. Like I said, stupid to have given in and no reason to repeat that mistake.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #474 of 479 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 03:30 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

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Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
To my surprise, wife came on to me while we were away on vacation with our kids. It was awkward. I did not finish. No idea how it was for her (quite possibly painful) since we do not discuss our experiences. Not intending to go back there. Did not improve either of our moods. In fact, I found her quite snippy after and she accused me of yelling at her. Kids response was "how could he be yelling, we were right next to you and we could barely hear him". Apparently, anything I say that is the least bit critical of her is yelling, and is prohibited if sex has occurred during the past 96 hours. Like I said, stupid to have given in and no reason to repeat that mistake.
Stay strong.

Just because you fell off the horse doesn't mean that you can't get back on.

This is a reminder of what will happen if you weaken again.
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post #475 of 479 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 03:32 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

Oh dear, I'm terribly sorry that it didn't work out.
Without the full details, I'm just guessing that she feels either inadequate or rejected from the results.

She took the lead in initiating but if she didn't want to participate in the rest then she what does she except?


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post #476 of 479 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

We have been getting along very well lately. She has been very affectionate. I have been smart and not taken the bait and turned it sexual. I think she sees my denying her as strength and that helps her feel safe, which helps her feel good about being married to me.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #477 of 479 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 02:58 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

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Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
We have been getting along very well lately. She has been very affectionate. I have been smart and not taken the bait and turned it sexual. I think she sees my denying her as strength and that helps her feel safe, which helps her feel good about being married to me.
Continue to refuse the bait. Failing there could cost you all your hard won efforts.

I'm not entirely happy that your denying her makes her feel good. But if that's cost of retaining your self respect, then it's worth it.
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post #478 of 479 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 06:35 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

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Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
To my surprise, wife came on to me while we were away on vacation with our kids. It was awkward. I did not finish. No idea how it was for her (quite possibly painful) since we do not discuss our experiences. Not intending to go back there. Did not improve either of our moods. In fact, I found her quite snippy after and she accused me of yelling at her. Kids response was "how could he be yelling, we were right next to you and we could barely hear him". Apparently, anything I say that is the least bit critical of her is yelling, and is prohibited if sex has occurred during the past 96 hours. Like I said, stupid to have given in and no reason to repeat that mistake.
I'm sorry you got all that, although I do wonder if her poor behaviour is her response to a degree of disappointment. Which certainly isn't all on you at all, when you both don't discuss your experiences.

Why don't you both discuss, such things?

If that is on her, if I were you I would insist on going there. On the other hand if it's on you, I would try to get over my reticence and talk about it.

Last edited by Personal; 03-15-2017 at 06:40 PM.
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post #479 of 479 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

@Personal: Thanks, but long past trying to talk. Spent 8 years in MC and ST. With a couple of licensed AASECT counsellors. H2 never discussed sex while I was present and never did any of the assigned exercises or homework. There simply is no going there. If I want a satisfying sex life, I need to divorce. No intention to divorce, so insisting merely brings conflict, stress, frustration, resentment and poor relations.

And yes, it is partly my fault. I am a dud in bed. Not interested in doing the work to learn to get better. That is part of why I stay. She won't leave me over my being a dud. So we are both giving in to our weaknesses. Fair and balanced. That is my goals these days. Not making it great. Not seeing how much better we can make it. Just keeping it fair and balanced. I am content to have it balanced at a low level. Others would choose differently. Lucky, they don't have to be me.

As @TaDor said on another thread, bad sex isn't worth the time. Since we only ever had bad sex (took me a long while to figure that out), I stopped wasting our time.

The good news is that, with sex now mostly off the table, she is far more affectionate and we share more cuddling and touching than we did before. Before, she feared cuddling would lead to sex. Now she feels safe to cuddle. So it is not a pure sacrifice, I do get something in return for mostly eliminating sex.

When you can see it coming, duck!

Last edited by Holdingontoit; 03-16-2017 at 09:11 AM.
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