The immovable object. - Page 5 - Talk About Marriage
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post #61 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-11-2015, 02:26 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

That little bit is actually hurting you, hon. I know you don't want to let it go, but I think you need to.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #62 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-11-2015, 03:20 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

The Emperor: You want this, don't you? The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant.

Luke: No.

The Emperor: It is unavoidable. It is your destiny. You, like your father, are now mine.
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post #63 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-11-2015, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

Anon: As I said before, not all of us are heroes. I am not Luke. I am Anakin. I am wholly given to the dark side.

H2 got a bad health report. She will need a biopsy and may need surgery. I will be there for her. I will say all the right things. I will hold her hand. Care for her. Change her bandages. Bring her meds and ice chips and tea. Make sure she gets the best medical care. Be waiting for her in the recovery room. Take care of the kids' details that she handles when she is well. I will make it a point to do whatever I am supposed to do. But not for her. For me. To make sure that she stays with us. Because despite it all, I would be lost without her. Heck, I am lost and she is here.
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post #64 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-11-2015, 04:56 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

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Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
Anon: As I said before, not all of us are heroes. I am not Luke. I am Anakin. I am wholly given to the dark side.

H2 got a bad health report. She will need a biopsy and may need surgery. I will be there for her. I will say all the right things. I will hold her hand. Care for her. Change her bandages. Bring her meds and ice chips and tea. Make sure she gets the best medical care. Be waiting for her in the recovery room. Take care of the kids' details that she handles when she is well. I will make it a point to do whatever I am supposed to do. But not for her. For me. To make sure that she stays with us. Because despite it all, I would be lost without her. Heck, I am lost and she is here.
That doesn't sound like someone lost to the dark side.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #65 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-11-2015, 05:21 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

Yeah, H. Even Luke was tempted by the Dark Side. You are tempted but not gone.
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post #66 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-14-2015, 01:49 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

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Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
Appreciate all the replies.

Anon: I tried exercise. I ran a half marathon. I did a cycle of P90X. I was in good shape. Did not improve my mood. Well, actually, the half marathon worsened my mood. After 6 months of training I came in pretty much last of all the participants, including the walkers and the people over age 70. I didn't enjoy the training (and I was part of a charity-based group that provided training materials, met weekly to do long runs, and provided moral support). And the race itself was humiliating. I did not feel any sense of satisfaction from finishing. I felt embarrassed that it took me so long they were tearing down the last few water stations before I got to them.

As for TMS, I looked into that. They opened a center near me. Costs $12,000. Not happening. Then they would not take me for regular therapy because I don't have records of all my previous therapists, the meds I took, etc.

As for talking to my kids about mate selection, I have done this and expect to continue to do it. H2 will not be pleased with some of the things I have to share. So timing is delicate. And no, the kids do not need to know all our problems. Or details. But there is a component to sexual mismatch that needs to be placed onto the table, which understandably makes H2 very nervous.

As for finding someone else, well, I am sure you guys (and gals) are correct that there are other women with whom I would enjoy spending time. Or even being married. Where we part company is believing that any of them would desire to spend any time with me. You will never convince me that is possible. Which is a pretty darn self-fulfilling prophesy. And one I am determined never to test empirically. As several people said to john117, my bitterness and resentment will shine through and no decent woman would give me the time of day. So if I am not going to learn to drop the bitterness and be happy, no point in divorcing her to seek someone else.

Like I said before, I don't expect to ever accept this. I know I am being a moron. Still, I don't expect to change, either. I get too much payoff from making a game of seeing if I can get my wife to stay married to me despite my depression. I figure since she baited and switched me, she can't complain if I sink some hooks into her in return. I know being this way is destroying my soul, but when you have spent pretty much every waking moment since toddler-hood unhappy, can't say my soul ever did me much good.
Maybe marathon or PX90are too much? if you are not an athlete type, these could be discouraging after a while. Like dieting, you cannot keep it up forever. Just try something more casual: walking few times a week, biking, swimming. Twnenty minutes not an hour. If you feel like an hour go for it, but always allow yourself to do just twenty minutes., if you don't feel like more.Better than nothing.

TMS is relatively new, and in most cases isnurance does not want to cover, unless you have cadillac plan. But did you try CTE treatmetns? They have been around much longer, are cheaper, and most insurance plans cover them with such documented trail of trying all meds without results.

Divorce brings up a hope of someone out there waiting for you. But there is no guarantee. When you divorce you should be ready to be on your own, and be fine with it. Just because you were unhappy while single when young man, does not mean you won't find it appealing now. You will be free whatever you want to, and you never know what you can discover.

"There was another life that I might have had, but I am having this one. - Kazuo Ishiguro
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post #67 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-14-2015, 08:50 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
Anon: As I said before, not all of us are heroes. I am not Luke. I am Anakin. I am wholly given to the dark side.

H2 got a bad health report. She will need a biopsy and may need surgery. I will be there for her. I will say all the right things. I will hold her hand. Care for her. Change her bandages. Bring her meds and ice chips and tea. Make sure she gets the best medical care. Be waiting for her in the recovery room. Take care of the kids' details that she handles when she is well. I will make it a point to do whatever I am supposed to do. But not for her. For me. To make sure that she stays with us. Because despite it all, I would be lost without her. Heck, I am lost and she is here.
What will you do if your wife doesn't make it?

It sounds like your major driving passion in life is to punish her for how you feel she treated you.

You hate your life with her, and you now say you would hate life without her.

Forget counselling to address depression. But maybe counselling to help you find other things to focus on that aren't quite so destructive could be a first step.
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post #68 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-15-2015, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

Wanda: I can't get ECT because I do not have any records of my prior treatment. Treatment with meds was from 1994 to 2011 (prior to that from 1978 to 1992 was talk only). We have moved twice. Work has changed insurers a couple of times. The last couple of psychiatrists were older and I believe both have retired. That was the problem with TMS provider, they wouldn't let me do anything without records of my prior treatment and I don't have and can't get any. So I have to start over to build a record of what doesn't work. Very discouraging.

As for making a happy life post-divorce, not bloody likely. When H2 goes away with the kids, I do not take advantage of the time to make plans to do things I enjoy. I sit home alone and play computer games and watch tv. I once worked outside the US for 2 weeks. Lived in a corporate apartment. Could have taken a taxi or train to many interesting sites and explored. I spent the weekend in the room alone playing computer games. I am confident if I divorced H2 and was paying her alimony I would have no social life at all. At least while married I have someone to go to dinner with on Saturday night. This past Saturday we went out for pizza and went to the supermarket. Not much excitement but it sure beats staying home and playing computer games.

Last edited by Holdingontoit; 06-15-2015 at 02:39 PM.
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post #69 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-15-2015, 04:09 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

Holding,

Are you a heavy drinker? I assume not or you would have mentioned it. But if you are, that's a different ballgame. Sustained alcohol abuse can cause what AA calls "stinkin thinkin"; that can include depression, isolationism, resignation and lack of energy/enthusiasm for anything.

If you are not an alcoholic, yet not willing to invest the energy to improve yourself or to put divorce on the table; then I suggest your only choice is to make due - and find the best marital needs balance between sex, love, companionship, and affection. Given that sex is off the radar, perhaps the other areas can compensate; at least to a point where your marriage is tolerable for the long run. Actually, it seems that you are already doing this to some extent.
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post #70 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 09:37 AM
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Re: The immovable object.

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JLD: We spent 8 years in MC. I was completely honest with her. Made no difference. She denied and deflected. She called spending all our savings and running up huge credit card debt (done while we were in MC) "I lost track". She was a finance major in college and worked for accounting and management consulting firms. She didn't "lose track". She didn't care what it did to our finances. She didn't care what it did to me. Or maybe she did. The MC at the time of the discovery was stupefied that she could have done this and then tried to hide it and then lied about it.

I no longer believe I owe her honestly and transparency. I tried that and got punished for it.

Yes, I know it was my choice to stay. I wanted to be with my kids. I didn't want some other man to raise my kids. Or molest my D. I got what I aimed for when I chose to stay. Now my kids are off to college and I have no plans or hopes for the future. My goal for the past 10 years has been accomplished. I am left adrift.

I am in a very dark place. I wish I could say I am looking for a way out. But I am not.




so in that dark corner that you have found yourself in, you have curled up in a position that offers just enough comfort and relief to get up every morning and continue functioning. even in darkness, sometimes one can find just enough light to keep moving on.
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post #71 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 05:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

Bad medical news continues. Not benign. H2 needs surgery and chemo and maybe radiation. Will be a tough year going forward physically, emotionally and financially.

Sex is no longer on our "to do" list of issues to work through (not that it has been for years, but now it is totally foreclosed). We have enough on our plate to figure out how we get H2 healthy and how we pay for whatever she needs.

I will hold her hand the entire way. Feeds my martyr complex.
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post #72 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 10:26 AM
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The immovable object.

Shows you're a good person. At the end of the day that matters.
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post #73 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 09:43 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

I'm so sorry to hear about your wife.
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post #74 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

More tests today. Meeting with oncologist tomorrow.

H2 was melancholy over the weekend. She said I (not she) do not deserve this. That I am a good person who deserves a fully functional wife. I said no ones deserves this. She said I would save lots of money if she did not survive the treatments. I told her to shush and that she is priceless.

Our employer is switching insurance providers on July 1 so we will have the joy of 2 insurance companies fighting over who pays for treatment, which payments count against which annual limits, etc. Much fun to look forward to.
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post #75 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 02:24 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
I bet you think you're being a realist as you list your failures and dismal outlook on life and your potential happiness.

Do you really believe that the past 20 years have been nothing but failure?
You've been able to keep a roof over your family's head.
Food on the table.
Family vacations.
Paid for cars and their upkeep.
Clothing on everyone's back.
Both kids in college, not drinking, not drugging and not procreating. Probably safe to assume their not breaking laws...
Your kids are well adjusted, have friends, have significant relationships, demonstrate care and concern for others.

You had nothing to do with any of those accomplishments and successes?

Depression is both a mood and a method of thinking. If you can force yourself to think more positively, you elevate your mood, which makes thinking more positively a bit easier, which elevates your mood a bit more, which makes thinking positively even easier, which further elevates your mood.

So go back and look at that list again...what can you add to it that Internet strangers might not be aware of?

It doesn't matter whether you stay with your wife or not. Once you tackle your depression, anything is possible.
This is a really good post. I wish that more people thought like this
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