The immovable object. - Page 6 - Talk About Marriage
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post #76 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-24-2015, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

Got some test results back yesterday. The good news is that her tumors react to estrogen and progesterone but do not respond to the HER2+ receptor. Both of those are good results, so the tumors are of the less aggressive variety and stopping her birth control pills should slow their growth.

The bad news is that they lymph nodes in the "other" breast (the one with fewer lumps) are suspicious, so they need to biopsy those. Looking more and more like double mastectomy, but also a good prognosis for recovery. More testing next week then meeting with plastic surgeon to discuss reconstruction. She does such a great job on weight watchers that she may not have enough belly fat to rebuild to her current size. Query whether she goes smaller, takes fat from her butt, does implants, etc.

I am trying very hard not to comment on new boobs and keep telling her I love her in any size or shape. What she gets will be entirely up to her. She seems to believe I am sincere. Maybe because I was always chasing her even when she was 60+ pounds heavier? On the phone today she told her Mom I have been very supportive. She even stroked my cheek when she said it. If she touched me in an affectionate manner, it must have been very meaningful to her.
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post #77 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-24-2015, 04:30 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

Holding,

You've been rock solid in what was potentially an end of life scenario. That's a big deal.


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Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
Got some test results back yesterday. The good news is that her tumors react to estrogen and progesterone but do not respond to the HER2+ receptor. Both of those are good results, so the tumors are of the less aggressive variety and stopping her birth control pills should slow their growth.

The bad news is that they lymph nodes in the "other" breast (the one with fewer lumps) are suspicious, so they need to biopsy those. Looking more and more like double mastectomy, but also a good prognosis for recovery. More testing next week then meeting with plastic surgeon to discuss reconstruction. She does such a great job on weight watchers that she may not have enough belly fat to rebuild to her current size. Query whether she goes smaller, takes fat from her butt, does implants, etc.

I am trying very hard not to comment on new boobs and keep telling her I love her in any size or shape. What she gets will be entirely up to her. She seems to believe I am sincere. Maybe because I was always chasing her even when she was 60+ pounds heavier? On the phone today she told her Mom I have been very supportive. She even stroked my cheek when she said it. If she touched me in an affectionate manner, it must have been very meaningful to her.
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post #78 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-25-2015, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

This morning she went on and on about how she feels badly that she is doing this to me. She hugged me a few times. I told her thank you. That I appreciate her concern.

She then complained that I was not sufficiently appreciative of her apology. That it seemed like her apology was no big deal to me. I am confused how I should respond.

The truth is that all of this is not such a big deal to me. I have turned off my feelings to deal with our marriage. Lousy way to go through life. But good when you have to deal with bad news. I expect my life to be unhappy. I expect bad things to happen. This is just one more on the list.

She is very worried about losing her breasts. Understandable. Not such a big deal to me. I fell for her in part because of her magnificent breasts. Now I regret having fallen for her. So losing her breasts would just serve me right for being shallow and foolish.

It is not as if her breasts are relevant to our behavior these days. Yes, I find her breasts attractive. But since we don't have sex, finding her attractive is a minus to me. If I find her less attractive going forward, so much the better. Easier to cope with the sexlessness. And I doubt I will find her less attractive. I was hot for her fat. I will likely be hot for her flat chested.

It is not as if loss of sensation in her breasts would matter. Like I said, we don't have sex. So it is not as if currently she gets very aroused when I play with her breasts and we won't have that as a source of arousal in the future. Nothing arouses her. At least not with me.

It is not as if her breasts are a source of arousal for me. Without Viagra I am limp as overcooked spaghetti. With Viagra I can do the deed breasts or no breasts. Again, no difference.

Yes, it will be inconvenient. Yes, it will cost money and I will have to interrupt my schedule to care for her. So what? This is what I signed up for. Richer or poorer. In health or in sickness. Her being sick just feeds my martyr syndrome. I don't really mind it at all.

Maybe I am fooling myself. Maybe it hasn't been real yet. So far she has gone to the visits for testing alone. So for me it has just been phone calls and talking to her. Maybe when I go to the doctor with her it will become more real and I will get upset. We shall see.
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post #79 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-25-2015, 10:09 AM
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Re: The immovable object.

What specifically did she apologize for?

One interpretation from a far distance is that she sees you being supportive husband in very troubling time. She KNOWS that she hasn't treated you the best over the course of your relationship. The scales are tipped so far in one direction, that even she can see the inequity of it all.

She sees apology as clear-the-air attempt at a giant rug sweep. "You know all those years I ignored your needs. Yeah, those. Well, my bad."

Your milquetoast response to her apology is not sufficient to fully assuage her guilt over past treatment. If you make a big deal about apology, it translates into being something sincere and meaningful - a watershed. I suspect you would see it as something less - something more akin to rug-sweeping years of mistreatment.

No good answer here. But if she continues to push on apology front, I would counter by saying that you're less worried over apologies over the past and more focused on your relationship for the future. You wife can and will beat this, and when she does you want the foundation in place for a good relationship moving forward. For the apology to have meaning to you, it has to be tied to commitment to action moving forward. For you, that means that you expect X, Y and Z from your loving wife. You pick the X, Y and Z that are meaningful to you.

Or you can continue to marinate in your resentment and excel in beating everybody else at the martyrdom game. You can't change the past. But if you don't take actions to shape the future, the only one you can blame is yourself.
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post #80 of 479 (permalink) Old 06-29-2015, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

MT: Thanks. You are spot on.

Still. I am unwilling to demand my wife do x,y,z. For 3 reasons. First, I am not willing to put in the time and effort that would be required for me to be in a position to participate in x,y,z. Second, I am not willing to reciprocate and provide her with the u, v and w she would ask for in return. Third, I am not willing to leave her if she refuses to provide x,y, and z.

I realize all of these things are on me, not on her. I am not willing to shape my future. That is my fault.
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post #81 of 479 (permalink) Old 07-01-2015, 11:09 AM
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Re: The immovable object.

H,

Could you please refresh my memory?

Weren't you the poster with "The Plan"? A plan unlike MMSLP that you created yourself that was going to lead to great and wonderful marriage/sex life? With your own separate blog where you provided updates etc., AND where self imposed deadlines came and went without resolution and you simply pushed the deadlines out to a newer and later date?
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post #82 of 479 (permalink) Old 07-02-2015, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

Tron: Nope, not me.

Got more test results back. She does not have the BRCA genetic mutations that increase risk of cancer. So we can focus on her breast cancer and not be so worried about precautionary hysterectomy. Good news for her, D18 and descendants. One less long term worry so we can concentrate on the problem at hand.

H2 is worried that she does not have enough belly fat to reconstruct the same size she currently has. She fears becoming pear shaped. I told her any shape is a good shape as long as it is upright and above ground.
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post #83 of 479 (permalink) Old 07-02-2015, 12:29 PM
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Re: The immovable object.

Glad you got some good news.

Perhaps showing her how supportive you are during this difficult time will flip a switch inside her and create some much needed change.
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post #84 of 479 (permalink) Old 07-02-2015, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

Nah, she has known since 1997. We spent 8 years hashing it out and got nowhere. She thinks I am a great guy but she is not hot for me. Tragic we got married and stayed married. 20+ years and 2 kids later we are in it for the long haul. But hot sex is never going to be part of the equation.
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post #85 of 479 (permalink) Old 07-06-2015, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

Had a very pleasant anniversary. No snuggling or sex but much affection from her. She says she is happy to be married to me. I am getting what I signed up for by staying with her. No sex but pleasant time together and intact family for our kids. Could be much worse. Many anniversaries were.
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post #86 of 479 (permalink) Old 07-10-2015, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

More tests today. More tests next Friday. Surgery should be in about 3 weeks. H2 getting anxious. Understandable. I told her not to be ashamed. We are all nervous but we will keep her sheltered in a cocoon of love.
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post #87 of 479 (permalink) Old 07-10-2015, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

P: My needs and feelings are irrelevant. They have been for 23 years. I want to stay married to my wife "no matter what". She feels loved. That is all that matters.
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post #88 of 479 (permalink) Old 07-10-2015, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

I am being quite serious. My feelings simply do not matter. I have long since given up any hope of being happy. The price I would have to pay is too high. The effort I would have to make is beyond what I am willing to expend. Knowing that I am unwilling to pursue happiness, I have ceased to make efforts to produce happiness or reduce unhappiness. I simply plod along.

My wife is sick. I support her. I hope she recovers. If she does, we get bionic boobs that I can appreciate from afar (it is not as if she is actually going to let me TOUCH them). If, God forbid, she doesn't, then I will be devastated. But having already been devastated by the reality that I will never have the sex life I wanted or the financial security I wanted or the marriage I wanted, another major blow to my hopes and dreams seems kinda "same old, same old". Of course I am not getting what I wanted. Story of my life.

How am I holding up is so besides the point. All that matters is my wife. She has made that clear for 23 years and counting. If I disagreed I should have divorced her years ago. I decided to stay, I am reaping what I have sowed. My kids have an intact family. I hope and pray that continues. If we get that, then I have accomplished my goals regardless of the fallout on me.
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post #89 of 479 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

Personal: not saying I don't have feelings, just saying I have no intention to enacting behaviors that are designed to lead to happier feelings. I understand my feelings and my reaction to them are not the most productive / helpful. A rational person might work to change that. No one has accused me of being rational in a very long time.

Wife had biopsy Friday. We should get the results on Wednesday or Thursday. Then CTA scan on Friday looking for the best artery to transplant to her chest. Surgery should be in 2 or 3 weeks. Going from a few weeks as empty nesters to a few weeks of having both kids and MIL in the house. I like a full house but this is not a good reason for having one.
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post #90 of 479 (permalink) Old 07-17-2015, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The immovable object.

Biopsy results are not good. Scan today involves contrast solution to which she is allergic. They gave her meds to tamp down her allergic response. Hopefully the scans will resolve that her chest lymph nodes are not cancerous. Otherwise her prognosis is much worse.

Also, the surgeons are not both available until August 30. August 30? That is 6 weeks of waiting! So we might have to switch surgeons. But won't anyone good also be busy? We don't want to switch to lousy doctors just to do the surgery in 3 weeks rather than 6. Very tough decision.

I am trying to be supportive. I keep telling her I love her in any shape, form or condition. She does not enjoy physical touch so I have to restrain my urge to hug her. She pulls or pushes away. So I leave my hand where she can reach for it in bed if she wants to. I feel very lonely. So does she. But we do not know how to reach out to one another in a way that helps (duh).
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