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The immovable object.

160K views 1K replies 107 participants last post by  Decorum 
#1 · (Edited)
Several posters have called me out in John117's thread. To avoid threadjacking, I am creating this thread and will refrain from commenting on my situation on John's thread.

For the record, I am not looking to resolve my personal or marital problems. I have invested almost 20,000 posts on various marriage forums over the past 13+ years. I have tried everything I am interested in trying. At this point have given up hope of making major changes and am pursuing a different path and a different payoff.

This thread is intended to provide the backstory to those of you who do not know me form other forums so you will understand my background and perspective when I post on other threads.

Married 23 years next month. 2 kids - S20 and D18. Classic victim of bait and switch. Sex stopped literally the day we got married. No sex wedding night. Sex at first honeymoon hotel after which H2 announces "now it is consummated and you cannot get it annulled". No further sex during honeymoon (got turned down every night "too tired" etc) except last night when I had to beg. Should have filed for annulment upon airplane touching down back in USA. But I was foolish and believed in vows, better or worse, marriage involves work, etc. Stupid me.

Five years later we have 2 kids and go away for week's vacation. As with honeymoon, sex only 1 time and numerous turndowns. Including the night of our anniversary, after taking her to dinner in the same restaurant where I proposed, watching fireworks, then staying in fancy hotel. Upon return home, I insist on MC to address sexless marriage.

We spent 8 years in MC with various MCs and sex therapists. Not once did H2 do any of the "homework" assignments. Not once did H2 live up to agreements we made. Went on vacation several times during this period. No sex. One of the MCs even said to her "your H works hard to support you as a SAHM, I know you work hard caring for the kids but next week you are going to be away from home at a hotel alone with your H with no responsibilities, don't you think that maybe you could have some sex with him on vacation?" You guessed it, no sex on vacation either.

2 years into MC H2 admitted she had been raped multiple times. She maintains that the rapes have no impact on her sexuality and gets violently angry if I suggest perhaps they do. Shortly after disclosing the rapes, H2 spent all our savings and ran up huge credit card debt. That was a decade ago and we are still not recovered from the financial devastation.

Ten years ago our last MC "fired" us saying "if you are not going to make any changes, then you are wasting your time and mine talking to me. I can't keep stealing your money."

D18 leaves for college in the fall. Many would say now is the time to divorce. I have no interest in doing so.

I was unhappy as a single person before marriage. Not very successful with females. Hence my susceptibility to H2's allure. And my skepticism as to whether a happy life would await me after divorce. I was unhappy when I was young and had much potential workwise (professionally, I have not lived up to my academic accomplishments) and could offer the prospect of raising children together. I cannot envision being anything but unhappy now that I am older and relatively unsuccessful and no longer have "I will be a great dad to your kids" as a selling point. I never had friends. I never did much but come home to my apartment and watch tv / play computer games. No point in divorcing for that, I can do that while married to H2.

The bottom line is that I am clinically depressed if not a full blown personality disorder. The work needed to overcome that is more than I am willing to invest. Then there is the impotence, much of which is caused by my lack of exercise and my unhealthy diet. I have been in therapy and took A-D meds on and off since age 17. Never made any difference in my mood or outlook. I did exercise for a time. Ran a half marathon. Dismal results and hated every minute of training. I did a course of P90X. Got in good shape. Did not feel any better and made no difference to H2.

To get to "happiness" I would need to invest time and money (which, with 2 kids in college, I have none of) to work on myself physically and mentally. Major therapy. Maybe ECT. Change diet. Exercise more. All in the hope that it might make a difference and that I could become someone I have never been. Non-depressed.

I have been depressed as long as I can remember. Back to nursery school. The concept that if I worked hard enough and invested enough effort I could overcome the depression seems impossible to me.

What I know is that divorce blows up my world. Kids take a hit. I take a huge financial hit (in my state 20+ year marriages lead to permanent alimony). I can't afford to retire ever as it is. How will I make ends meet on half of "not enough"? You are going to try to convince me I will meet some wonderful woman who is financially comfortable and wants to take me on as a reclamation project? Really? So what is "for sure" is that there are huge practical and financial and emotional downsides. All in the hope of a better future? It doesn't even come close to balancing.

Of course, it would balance if you assigned a large negative value to living unhappy and depressed. I do not. This is how I have lived my whole life. I don't know anything else. So to me, this is not negative. This is baseline. This is how life is.

You might feel compelled to entice me with fantasy stories about how I can learn to be happy. H2 enticed me with those same stories. Look how that turned out. I am not gong to be fooled twice.
 
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#3 ·
I bet you think you're being a realist as you list your failures and dismal outlook on life and your potential happiness.

Do you really believe that the past 20 years have been nothing but failure?
You've been able to keep a roof over your family's head.
Food on the table.
Family vacations.
Paid for cars and their upkeep.
Clothing on everyone's back.
Both kids in college, not drinking, not drugging and not procreating. Probably safe to assume their not breaking laws...
Your kids are well adjusted, have friends, have significant relationships, demonstrate care and concern for others.

You had nothing to do with any of those accomplishments and successes?

Depression is both a mood and a method of thinking. If you can force yourself to think more positively, you elevate your mood, which makes thinking more positively a bit easier, which elevates your mood a bit more, which makes thinking positively even easier, which further elevates your mood.

So go back and look at that list again...what can you add to it that Internet strangers might not be aware of?

It doesn't matter whether you stay with your wife or not. Once you tackle your depression, anything is possible.
 
#4 ·
Anon: Do I know you from somewhere else?

I have done therapy and taken A-D meds many times over the decades. Starting when I was 17 and on and off every decade or so. No treatment ever made any difference (except some of the A-D meds caused weight gain and rendered me anorgasmic). Every time they announce a new A-D med I think about going back, but I am skeptical anything would work. Which I know is partly the depression talking but partly the result of decades of trying and failing. I really think if anything might work it is ECT but the risk of memory problems rules that out for me. I have a wife and 2 kids to support, not enough money saved to retire and I cannot risk a treatment that could render me unable to work at my current position. I would be willing to try ECT after I retire. Oh wait, I forgot, at the pace we are on I will never be able to afford to retire.

Long winded way of saying I have no intention of "tackling" my depression. I don't believe anything worth trying is going to work, and I don't enjoy the side effects.

By the time we are done paying for D18's college I will be too old to consider blowing things up and starting over.

H2 is becoming a better partner lately. On the physical side, she frequently reaches for my hand at night or when we are out walking. She occasionally initiates snuggle sessions. She is even willing to consent to sex from time to time. Now I am the one who "refuses" by refraining from initiating even when she sends signals she would be willing to consent. On the financial side, she is becoming more aware. Years ago she justified her overspending by telling herself "H is super smart and will eventually earn enough to pay this off". Now she sees that I am never going to earn that much and we need to cut down on spending. She saw it impact where the kids go to college and she hates that (I warned her 14 years ago that might be the case but she did not believe me). She sees that there will be no retirement for me and no travel for her if we do not cut down our spending. So while she is by no means frugal she is finally recognizing that there is no money tree in the back yard and my earning power is limited and she needs to tighten her belt. She is even looking for a full time job so she can generate more spending money for herself now that I have to deflect her "allowance" toward paying for college.

Things are slowly improving. Well, as long as you count not fighting over sex because I have yielded the field to her as "improvement" (I get so ashamed of my impotence that I refuse to have sex). But there is more affection. She is getting better on the financial side. And lately she smiles when I compliment her, instead of frowning and accusing me of just trying to get into her pants. So the day to day is better than back when we were fighting over sex and locking horns over her constant overspending.

You might want me to press for even more. I am simply unwilling to do so.
 
#102 ·
(I get so ashamed of my impotence that I refuse to have sex). .
You shouldn't! This is happens at our age.

What works for me is (i) trying out something new, some new position, or a position that makes me feel more dominant -- like doggie (ii) going in for some other form of sex which she enjoys... a sensual massage or even masturbating her to climax. (This is often enough to arouse me!)
 
#5 ·
H--

if you don't want to do anything to change your situation, can you just accept it?

I'm not trying to insult you, but there is a disconnect between all of the reasons you list for why no change makes sense and yet you have an obvious seething resentment for your situation.

No doubt this has been pointed out to you before, but I wonder how you have resolved that in your own mind.
 
#6 ·
Can I accept it? No.

I don't see any disconnect. All my choices are sub-optimal given my treatment resistant depression. The fact that I chose one doesn't mean I am pleased with it. I am a seething ball of resentment because I hate that I am too lazy and negative to even try to create new alternatives. To some, that would suggest that I should do the work and try to create additional options. To me, it just reinforces my determination to punish myself for being weak.

What did you expect? Don't you think most suicide bombers are seething balls of resentment when they strap on the explosive vest?

Some people when facing the Kobayashi Maru scenario find acceptance. Some go down fighting. Some try to cheat death and reprogram the simulator. And some of us overload the engines and blow ourselves up, hoping to take down the enemy with us. Kahn triggered the Genesis device. Not all of us are cut out to be heroes.
 
#7 ·
OK, you don't want to change your situation. I got that.

How about learning how to let all of the things you hate pass through you? Wouldn't that be nice instead of collecting them inside, ruminating on them and stoking that flame?

I know it sounds dumb, but I am totally serious.

Ask yourself, it is the thing itself the problem or simply your reaction to it? Some people can learn to be OK even in prison, with cancer, etc. How do they manage to let that stuff go? Wouldn't you like to learn that trick? Even if it is just a trick, does it really matter if it helps? What is more real, your pain or the world outside your pain? Do you hide in a world of pain because it is what you know so well?

I do not say any of this to diminish you.

I don't flatter myself to think that there isn't some therapist out there who hasn't already said this to you. But maybe you never really heard them. It is hard to listen to someone explain yourself to you. If you're like me, you resist that.

Edit: There is a disconnect because you say you don't want to change, but your emtional state suggests you desperately want to change. It is tearing you up inside, yet you do nothing. This is not an internally consistent position.
 
#8 ·
You might feel compelled to entice me with fantasy stories about how I can learn to be happy. H2 enticed me with those same stories. Look how that turned out. I am not gong to be fooled twice.

You might not learn to be happy, but you can certainly be less unhappy if you take relatively minor steps to do so.

For example - I promise you there is somebody out there who is a better match for you. More often than not, this person appears without one looking for them. Will they make you ecstatic? Maybe not. Less unhappy? Absolutely.

There is another woman your age out there, who likes pc gaming, Star Trek, and hates working out, and anything else that you happen to be. I promise you. She also likes sex.

Now, your state of mind, as you suggest, may have little or nothing to do with your wife, but you are here, aren't you? If you had truly given up and accepted your lot in life, you wouldn't be here venting. You wouldn't have spent 13+ years on message boards looking for answers. So you're not as accepting as you think you are.

Let me tell you a little secret - divorce and alimony is not the end of the world. Everybody dies at some point, and you can't take it with you, so why not live the best life you can live? You don't have to reach your full potential, or cure cancer, or invent a better doo-dad or anything like that. You just have to be happy. And in order to take the first steps towards being happy, you need to remove the negative from your life. Getting rid of the bad wife baggage may only be the first step, but that's just it, it's a first step.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Encourage your wife to get full-time employment and to share in the expenses of college. Gradually decrease her allowance for unnecessary spending. No vacations, w/e's away or fancy dinners. Have alone time at home. A picnic in the backyard or a park. Go to a free outdoor concert with some sandwiches and cheap wine. Go to Mickie Ds or Royal Minced Meat (Burger King)for a special treat. You figure out the rest. If you need to cut up credit cards then do it. Right now you are the nice heavily burdened mule of the family. Time for the mule to kick some azz. Get noticed, get some appreciation. You might get your testosterone levels up and who knows... :smile2:

Are your children taking out some loans to decrease the burden on you? They should take out loans. There is no reason that they should not invest in their own education. You should be investing that money to your retirement. Will they support Mom and Dad when they complete their education? Have they tried to get grants or scholarships? Do they work or intend to work? If not get them on it. No extras for them either. If they want something, they need to work for it.

You have taken on too much in your family. Why this is so is up to you to discover. Ok, don't go to therapy or take meds definitely no money on MC. There are milder treatments for depression these days. It's should be trial and error to find the right combination. Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation: An Alternative Depression Treatment. Read about the new treatment on the Mayo Clinic site. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...h/treatment-resistant-depression/art-20044324

There is a lot that you can do personally to improve your life that has nothing to do with intimacy with your wife. You have expended all of your energy in that direction. Simply asking others to pick up the slack would make a tremendous change in the direction of your life. Do less and they will pick up where you left off. The question is - will you do it?
 
#14 ·
Do you do any type of physical activity?

I'm sure you know that regular exercise can be more effective than antidepressants for some people.

If you do nothing, can you start just taking a 20 minute walk every day? Try that for a month straight and see how it affects your outlook.

While walking, focus just on the act of walking. Let that be your time when you clear your head.

For me, exercise is the easiest way to focus on the thing in front of me. You may never take a break mentally from your problems-- this is a good way to clear your head.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#16 ·
Appreciate all the replies.

Anon: I tried exercise. I ran a half marathon. I did a cycle of P90X. I was in good shape. Did not improve my mood. Well, actually, the half marathon worsened my mood. After 6 months of training I came in pretty much last of all the participants, including the walkers and the people over age 70. I didn't enjoy the training (and I was part of a charity-based group that provided training materials, met weekly to do long runs, and provided moral support). And the race itself was humiliating. I did not feel any sense of satisfaction from finishing. I felt embarrassed that it took me so long they were tearing down the last few water stations before I got to them.

As for TMS, I looked into that. They opened a center near me. Costs $12,000. Not happening. Then they would not take me for regular therapy because I don't have records of all my previous therapists, the meds I took, etc.

As for talking to my kids about mate selection, I have done this and expect to continue to do it. H2 will not be pleased with some of the things I have to share. So timing is delicate. And no, the kids do not need to know all our problems. Or details. But there is a component to sexual mismatch that needs to be placed onto the table, which understandably makes H2 very nervous.

As for finding someone else, well, I am sure you guys (and gals) are correct that there are other women with whom I would enjoy spending time. Or even being married. Where we part company is believing that any of them would desire to spend any time with me. You will never convince me that is possible. Which is a pretty darn self-fulfilling prophesy. And one I am determined never to test empirically. As several people said to john117, my bitterness and resentment will shine through and no decent woman would give me the time of day. So if I am not going to learn to drop the bitterness and be happy, no point in divorcing her to seek someone else.

Like I said before, I don't expect to ever accept this. I know I am being a moron. Still, I don't expect to change, either. I get too much payoff from making a game of seeing if I can get my wife to stay married to me despite my depression. I figure since she baited and switched me, she can't complain if I sink some hooks into her in return. I know being this way is destroying my soul, but when you have spent pretty much every waking moment since toddler-hood unhappy, can't say my soul ever did me much good.
 
#66 ·
Maybe marathon or PX90are too much? if you are not an athlete type, these could be discouraging after a while. Like dieting, you cannot keep it up forever. Just try something more casual: walking few times a week, biking, swimming. Twnenty minutes not an hour. If you feel like an hour go for it, but always allow yourself to do just twenty minutes., if you don't feel like more.Better than nothing.

TMS is relatively new, and in most cases isnurance does not want to cover, unless you have cadillac plan. But did you try CTE treatmetns? They have been around much longer, are cheaper, and most insurance plans cover them with such documented trail of trying all meds without results.

Divorce brings up a hope of someone out there waiting for you. But there is no guarantee. When you divorce you should be ready to be on your own, and be fine with it. Just because you were unhappy while single when young man, does not mean you won't find it appealing now. You will be free whatever you want to, and you never know what you can discover.
 
#17 ·
I understand the feeling of being unhappy throughout all of life's stages. It can be a challenge. In a way, you are correct to not pursue a divorce at this point. If your unhappiness is that long-standing, the root of your challenge probably is not in your marital relationship.

Have you engaged in individual counseling as a way to walk yourself through your personal history? I sense quite a bit of "what's the use, I will fail anyway" attitude in your writing. While pragmatic in some cases, this approach is caustic is applied in EVERY aspect of your life. You need to work with a counselor to identify one aspect of your existence where you can develop confidence in yourself and your abilities. Then, you build from there. Best of luck.
 
#18 ·
I am going to stay on the exercise thing for a minute.

It sounds like you chose the wrong mode of exercise.

Cut out the competitive aspect. Cut out the public display aspect. You hated coming in last, humiliating yourself. OK, that makes sense. So don't put yourself in that position.

P90X is not sustainable for most people. It's like ripping a bandaid off. Great in the short term but you can't always be so intense.

Do something more low key. Can you just get a weight set and do that at home? Make the process really methodical. Stack the weights on the bar slowly. Breathe properly, focus on the weight, use perfect form. It sounds rote but it can put you in a peaceful place. Then, you will gain strength physically and mentally. Nobody needs to know but you. You will have little accomplishments each week as you are able to lift slightly more.

Make it easy. Don't torture yourself. Let it build very, very slowly. Don't question it, just do it, every day. 20 minutes. Could you do that?
 
#20 ·
I am going to stay on the exercise thing for a minute.

It sounds like you chose the wrong mode of exercise.
Bzzz. Wrong. thank you for playing.

I also tried going to a gym and working machines. I also tried watching classes on Fit tv in my basement. I also tried dvds less intense than P90X (again alone in my basement). Never felt good about myself.

Make it easy. Don't torture yourself. Let it build very, very slowly. Don't question it, just do it, every day. 20 minutes. Could you do that?
No. H2 wants a partner who is fit. She had one. She spurned me. Now I will not give her the satisfaction of having a fit partner. She can have weak soft bodied me. She doesn't find me attractive? So what? It is not like we are having sex so what difference does it make?

She leaves me over being out of shape. Bingo. I win. I outlasted her. She gets to be the "bad guy" who blew up our marriage. She gets to tell the kids she is leaving me, who has done nothing over the past 20+ years but kiss her butt. And maybe she will find a rich guy to marry who can buy them the things I will never be able to afford.

I got what I wanted. I raised them. I got to live with them every night while they were growing. I got to tuck them into bed and kiss them good night. I got to go camping and drive them to activities and cheer their failures and successes. No other guy got to raise them. I don't have to worry about a stream of suitors dating H2 and molesting my daughter. Even if H2 remarries, D18 will want me to walk her down the aisle. That is what I hoped for when I refused to abandon them 14 years ago. My hope has been fulfilled.

Unfortunately, I do not have any hopes left for myself.
 
#19 ·
MT: Did talk therapy at age 17 before leaving for college. College was a disaster. Did talk therapy (individual and group) after graduate school. Zero impact.

Week before first child was born, my partners kicked me out of my firm. Nice, huh? Went to talk therapy and got put on meds for the first time. Tried several meds. Some caused severe side effects. Some did not. None made much of a difference. Thankfully S20 was born healthy and I eventually got another job in another town and started over. Made partner again. Was doing IC and meds. Things were going OK (except for the sex).

Then the infamous "no sex" 5th anniversary vacation and the ultimatum to do MC. Continued to do IC and meds while doing MC. Then discovery of the huge financial betrayal by H2. Continued doing MC and IC and meds but nothing could make an impact given the betrayal both sexual and financial.

Headhunter communicated job opening 700 miles away. I interviewed thinking if I got the job I would divorce H2 and leave the kids with her and start over far away. Got the job. Couldn't bear to leave my kids. H2 and kids came with me to new job. Found a local IC and stayed on meds. Tried various ICs and meds. Nothing works. Pretty much every waking moment I am not hugging my kids (not appropriate to do so often now that they are grown) is unhappy.

So where does that leave me? I was a nice guy who didn't divorce his wife over disappointing honeymoon and pre-kid year and where did that get me? I was nice guy who trusted his partners at startup firm and where did that get me? I was nice guy who shared his finances with his wife and where did that get me? I am DONE being nice. Of course, I don't have the guts to be openly aggressive. So I am the king of passive-aggression. I sabotage everything. Mostly myself, but as long as H2 gets hit by some splash damage I am satisfied. It is not like I am ever going to be successful or happy or even content.

This is simply too much for me to handle. We are talking years of daily therapy, meds, maybe ECT or TMS to get over this. Serious stuff. Far more than I am willing to invest in chasing what I perceive as a slim chance of success. If I can keep my job and pay the bills and my kids can graduate college without much debt that is enough for me. I am not willing to rock the boat and shake things up and risk losing my career and my income (no savings so without steady income the ship goes down pretty darn fast) to search for a unicorn.

I agree with all of you that this stinks. Nevertheless, it could be worse. I can handle this. I have been handling it for 50+ years. I have been handling it for the 10 years since we stopped MC and I realized our sex life was never going to fulfill my needs much less live up to my dreams. I do not want to find out whether or not I can handle things getting worse. I know I am blessed and have many things to be thankful for in my life. I am not going to throw them away questing for a grail. You will never convince me it is anything but a figment of someone's imagination.
 
#21 ·
I'm not coming at the exercise thing for the effects it will have on your body or on your wife's perception of you. Frankly, from the way you've described your marriage, I don't even think it really exists. It's a name with no content.

I'm talking about exercise as a way to help you feel better mentally.

I am not trying to insult you-- you already know this-- but you are soft and indulgent mentally.

It is hard to get a handle on that sort of thing. I personally find it is easier to see the benefit of mental focus/clarity in a physical activity. I believe many people are similarly wired.

You've done some different activities and you do nothing now (based on what you've said). Doing nothing is not working out so well for you. You've not exhausted all possibilities. You indulge in making excuses for yourself. But you get no satisfaction from this. So why not stop making excuses and just do something?
 
#22 ·
Bad stuff happens to everyone, not just you. It's how you deal with it that matters.

You will never find a perfect outcome. Focusing on that instead of focusing on how to simply do BETTER is a mistake. Just put one foot in front of the other.

how do alcoholics stop drinking? One day at a time. If you focus on the enormity of not drinking, you will never make it.

can you apply the same thought process to your life?
 
#23 · (Edited)
Anon: Here is the cycle I am locked in. I agree with you that bad stuff happens to everyone, and what matters is how you deal with it. I deal poorly. When the going gets tough, I get stupid and wimp out. That is how my FIL (may he rest in piece) described me, and he was correct.

Having spent 50+ years being worthless and weak, I now believe I deserve to be miserable. I am not trying to make things better. I am not trying to create a successful marriage. I am trying to endure a bad marriage so I deliver to myself the punishment I deserve. Hard to do for decades. Intellectually I realize it is stupid and counter-productive. I understand that whatever part of me has any sense left is fighting against this process and result. Which is why I ceaselessly agonize on Internet forums. But don't you see the brilliance of this? Agonizing on Internet forums is the outlet the sick part of me permits to the healthy part. I give the healthy part an outlet. I give it hope. I give it a chance to vent. Then when it has "caught it breath", I go back to torturing it. After 13 years, the sick part of me has this down to a science.

If I did some exercise and felt better about myself, that would make my job harder? Why? Harder to justify staying in a bad marriage when you feel you deserve better. If I felt better about myself, I would be tempted either to go back to working to improve my marriage or to divorce H2. We can't have that Anon. That would remove the focus of my resentment and my excuse for inaction and put the onus on me to make a better life for myself. No, feeling better about myself because I got into better shape is exactly what I will not permit me to do.

You can call out to the decent and good and healthy part of me all you want. It avails not. I have turned to the dark side. The sick part of me is in complete control.

Doesn't mean I can't give good advice to others. I know what someone who is healthy SHOULD do to improve their situation. I simply have no intention of implementing that advice myself.

Like I said, this thread was intended to provide background so people who read my advice could know where I was coming from and prevent threadjacks from john117's thread. It is not meant to be a help thread. There is no hope left for me. There is a part of me desperately crying out in despair for release. Don't worry, I have him securely shackled. He'll never get free.
 
#24 ·
H--

Heavy! Fatalistic!

You are who you want to be. You want to be a good guy, you believe you are a good guy underneath it all-- guess what, you ARE that good guy.

I'm not going to convince you, you can see it for yourself.

You could change in an instant. It is possible. You are so close to it.
 
#25 ·
H,

there are a lot of martyrs out there in this world, married to people they shouldn't be married too, in they stay in for a host of reasons (Money (lack of it or to comfortable with the good life), no where to go, no eduction , no desire to pursue self happiness in themselves, no one else will have them (or so they think), attitude, mentally stuck, kids) so i get that, and when they die, they die mostly with wishing that life had been different for them, but they die anyway alone in their thoughts. No one will remember them as martyrs and in some cases their children will repeat the cycle because that is the role model they see...and BTW you don't not divorce someone for someone...ever and i mean ever...you divorce because of you, and you need to escape a bad situation, escape the wrong marriage, but you escape for you, regardless if you ever find another woman again...you escape to create a better world for you. Find your bliss and if it ain't with Mrs. H then find it else where...its not her job to make you happy that responsibility is all yours.
 
#26 ·
Anon: I do not want to change. I do not want upheaval. I want balance. I want to believe that I bring to the table what H2 brings. No less. No more. If she does not bring her sexuality to the table, that is a big negative for me. I will make sure I bring enough negatives to the table to balance things out. If I exercised and got into better shape, I would be bringing too much to the table. Homey don't play that game.

Xenote: You are correct. I have many regrets. I expect to accumulate many more. I expect to die viewing most of my life as wasted time. Not looking for anyone to remember me as a martyr. Not looking for Mrs. Hold the make me happy. Gave up on that years ago. Not looking to find my bliss. Do not believe it exists.

Like I said, I have many blessings. Health. Children. A wife who loves me. More now than before. She never believed that I truly see her as beautiful and smart and competent until we stopped having sex. Now she sees that my compliments were sincere, because I continue to give them freely even though we don't have sex. We like the same foods. We like many of the same tv shows. We are devoted to our children. I think we will be compatible in our old age. It just requires me to give up on sex. Which makes it feel like capitulation to me. Like I lost and she won. I know that is all in my head. But I refuse to let it go. She can make me stop having sex by raising the price (divorce) above what I am willing to pay. But she cannot make me like it. That is the small piece of myself I will never give away. She cannot make me like it.
 
#29 ·
Anon: I do not want to change. I do not want upheaval. I want balance. I want to believe that I bring to the table what H2 brings. No less. No more. If she does not bring her sexuality to the table, that is a big negative for me. I will make sure I bring enough negatives to the table to balance things out. If I exercised and got into better shape, I would be bringing too much to the table. Homey don't play that game.
OK, it's just a word but this does not sound like "balance" to me.

Do you really think it makes sense to organize your sense of self around a tit for tat contest with your wife?

You clearly see how massively flawed this is and yet you call it balance?

Block your wife out of the picture. Focus on balance within your own self. She is a side show man.
 
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