Talk About Marriage banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

What I don't get about sexless marriages

42K views 382 replies 50 participants last post by  BetrayedDad 
#1 ·
Reading here and other places, it seems like your typical sexless marriage is made up of 2 generals who have their armies marshalled and ready to battle...except they sit there eyeing each other across the battlefield in an uneasy truce.

In the end, isn't it better to fight that final battle with the intentions that it's the final stand? Wouldn't you rather figure out if you are General Wellington or General Custer? Without doing anything, both armies are losing due to inaction as a result of attrition. If both sides have this stranglehold on the other in an uneasy truce, eventually both sides wither away until there is nothing left.

I understand the reasons given - kids and finances - which ironically is the exact same mindset taken when it comes to infidelity (in most cases). But are those reasons actually good enough? I don't mean are they important enough. I mean if you are willing to put up with a sexless marriage and sacrifice yourself for the sake of your kids, doesn't the family normally degrade enough in these types of situations to the point that the family that stayed together only provided a marginal benefit vs splitting in the first place?
 
#2 ·
I understand the reasons given - kids and finances - which ironically is the exact same mindset taken when it comes to infidelity (in most cases). But are those reasons actually good enough? I don't mean are they important enough. I mean if you are willing to put up with a sexless marriage and sacrifice yourself for the sake of your kids, doesn't the family normally degrade enough in these types of situations to the point that the family that stayed together only provided a marginal benefit vs splitting in the first place?
Excellent observations, Plan.

The answer to your question is: YES. Families DO degrade to the point that staying together only for the kids and finances is an extremely marginal benefit.

I stayed in a sexless marriage for 20 years -- all for the kids and finances. Sheesh, what a terrible mistake. We all paid a hefty price for it.

I finally left, and it was the best thing I ever did for all of us. Sure, we all took a financial hit (two households are more expensive than one, blah blah blah) and it was hard on the kids, but in the end they are so much happier that they no longer have to live with two bitter, angry, seething parents. At times, the tension in the household was so thick you could cut it with a knife. Not fair for any kid to have to live like that.

My ex-husband and I are both in happy relationships now (not sure how HIS sex life is these days :D, but mine is great!)

I only wish I had left sooner.
 
#3 ·
Apparently not.

Sexless marriage like all things in life is the result of calculations made and a power struggle similar to "s(he) who has the gold makes the rules" yet it's "whomever holds the power gets their way"

I emotionally detached, ridded myself of every shred of codependence in preparation of letting my wife go telling her I would not live without enthusiastic sex. She decided to cut the crap and fix it. I am one of the few HDs that took my power back in combination with a spouse with the desire to stay together and make it work.

Im getting laid one way or another. I like to get laid. I will not NOT get laid. I will pay the price of getting laid whatever it is.

Those HDs that lose the battle n a no win situation are unwilling to divorce or have a spouse that prefers little or no sex over being married or both. Mine didn't. Until that was fully addressed in my situation. I was powerless.

Whatever the excuses were from my wife were addressed right after I made sure she understood i jump thru her hoops when she jumps thru mine and I already had plenty of turns going first.
 
#5 ·
I like this way of thinking. Kinda of a "bull by the horns" kind of thing. Way to go!!
I pretty much did the same thing and it also worked.
The strange part is that once the LD spouse gets on board, you can clearly see they are diggin the sex. Why go through this headache to begin with?

It is my opinion that sometimes the LD spouse actually NEEDS this sort of true ultimatum to be attracted to you. It's almost as if the LD has to believe that you really will leave before they give it up in earnest. How f-ed up is that :laugh:
 
#4 ·
Plan,

In my opinion sexless marriages (other than one's with medical issues) are plagued with frustration, guilt, resentment and an inability to forgive one's self for feeling this way. Overtime this likely erodes both partner's self confidence of seeing they can not please each other until they feel like they are in the relationship only for the sake of trying to prevent even more failure and harm to themselves because they fear no one else would ever want them.

We live in a society where everyone would just rather watch and listen, and few if any actually feel the urge from within to actually PARTICIPATE. ....eventually the lack of participation will catapult these relationships into the spotlight in the form of inhibited social drama, much like someone being evicted from their home because they somehow feel entitled to live there without paying any bills. ...and that creates and event where we as a society just get to sit back and watch and listen as someone else's disaster unfolds, while quietly thinking inside to ourselves that I'll never let it get this bad in my own life, I'll do my best to try and stay.

There was a recent eviction in my brother's neighborhood. A house full of children thrown out of their home. No one helped them, everyone just spoke horrible about them for not leaving the house sooner when they knew things were bad, and now their neighborhood look awful because all their stuff was out on the streets.... but no one in the community ever felt the desire to overcome the awkwardness and get involved to help them.

Regards,
Badsanta
 
#6 ·
I think it's a more of a one sided battle in most cases.

The HD spouse gets driven crazy and the LD spouse just wonders why the HD spouse can never let it go.

The HD spouse from time to time tries to convince him/herself that he/she can really manage without being fulfilled in this way and then eventually boils over.

The LD spouse only sees it as being a problem when the HD spouse loses his/her cool.

So in the HD spouses mind it is a never-ending struggle by in the LD spouse's mind it is more like episodic conflict.

In a way, if the HD spouse can escalate the situation to what you've described and make the LD spouse feel the constant tension, that is a victory, because then the LD spouse can never conveniently ignore the problem.
 
#7 ·
I think it's a more of a one sided battle in most cases.

The HD spouse gets driven crazy and the LD spouse just wonders why the HD spouse can never let it go.

The HD spouse from time to time tries to convince him/herself that he/she can really manage without being fulfilled in this way and then eventually boils over.

The LD spouse only sees it as being a problem when the HD spouse loses his/her cool.

So in the HD spouses mind it is a never-ending struggle by in the LD spouse's mind it is more like episodic conflict.

In a way, if the HD spouse can escalate the situation to what you've described and make the LD spouse feel the constant tension, that is a victory, because then the LD spouse can never conveniently ignore the problem.
I think in some cases this is true. In other cases, I think the LD suffers every bit as much as the HD. I think IRL the few that are completely oblivious to the corrosiveness of sexlessness to a marriage are a small minority. On TAM and sites similar to it, it gets amplified. I think most cases of little to no sex is a symptom of an underlying root cause(s), and because of that I believe in the majority of cases (IRL) both spouses feel unhappy and unfulfilled.

IMHO, sexlessness is the catalyst that can either spur the partners on to fixing the real issues or it will be the straw that breaks the camels back in the marriage ultimately ending. This assumes that both spouses have a healthy amount of self respect to not tolerate bad behavior in a marriage.
 
#8 · (Edited)
WoundedWarrior has a thread going now that is VERY painful to read. So many triggers for me, and reminds me of all my lame "justifications" for staying in a miserable situation. (How can I give up my lifestyle? Will the kids suffer? Am I too old to start over? Am I willing to give up the "known" for the "unknown"? What if I go BROKE? What if my kids are mad and blame me???) None of that came true, by the way.

ww's thread is here for anyone who is interested. (Sorry, hope that's not a thread-jack.)

I now live in a home that is one-fourth the size of the one I lived in when I was married. I gave up the vacation home, the expensive cars, the extended travel, the bank account that was endlessly replenished, the "prestige" of being a "prominent doctor's wife." :rolleyes:

Even though my ex has another sprawling house (he is likely overextended AGAIN), guess what? My kids spend most of their free time from college at my tiny little ranch house in a cute neighborhood. Why? Because it is NOW a HAPPY HOME.

In the end, that's all that really matters. Peace and happiness. It's all most people are REALLY looking for.

Namaste ~
 
#53 ·
I deleted that thread because it was painful to write and pointless to read. There was no positive influence in there to help anyone so it shouldn't have been written in the first place. Sometimes I post my feelings, when it should just stay in my head????

HAPPYASACLAM, I am very happy for you:)
 
#17 ·
Good evening
I think its not so simple. Some near sexless marriages are very good in other ways. Its not just financial issues that prevent divorce, but real love for and wanting to be with your partner.

Also, often the HD never gives up hope. They are so unable to comprehend the LD's position, that even after decades they think things will improve. "wow, we had sex twice last week - maybe he/she is finally realizing how good it is"

Then there is the problem that it seems so....wrong... to leave "just because of sex". The combination of "is that all that matters to you", and "why after all these years" feels too awful.
 
#19 ·
Also, often the HD never gives up hope. They are so unable to comprehend the LD's position, that even after decades they think things will improve.
I totally agree, richard. For TWO DECADES I hoped and prayed my LD spouse would "change." I booked counseling appointments, marriage retreats, sexy get-away weekends, sexy lingerie, porn, couples' massages, sexy text messages, love letters, crying, tantrums (*ugh), long talks, sex therapists. H*ll, I even got Botox!!

I finally gave up hope after 20 years.

We are divorced.
 
#20 ·
Good evening
there is also not wanting to hurt your spouse. My wife would be utterly devastated if I left (and the rest of our marriage is so good that I don't want to leave anyway). Whats worse is that she wouldn't understand - it would feel like kicking a puppy. It would be an act of betrayal.

Despite the talks she truly cannot understand that to me sex is more than a fun thing we occasionally do when we happen to have time. She has been making an effort recently and that has helped a lot, but its clear that she still doesn't understand.
 
#22 ·
Good evening
there is also not wanting to hurt your spouse. My wife would be utterly devastated if I left (and the rest of our marriage is so good that I don't want to leave anyway). Whats worse is that she wouldn't understand - it would feel like kicking a puppy. It would be an act of betrayal.

Despite the talks she truly cannot understand that to me sex is more than a fun thing we occasionally do when we happen to have time. She has been making an effort recently and that has helped a lot, but its clear that she still doesn't understand.
I don't understand why your wife or any LD spouse that withholds sex regularly (and fully healthy) cannot understand why sex is important to the HD. Even if she doesn't get it, why not simply do it because it's something the HD spouse enjoys doing? I bet in the majority of cases, the LD spouse would actually have a good time if he/she would be open minded and participate in lovemaking.

I fail to grasp why an LD spouse acts as if their HD partner is wearing a sandpaper condom or storing boiling acid inside their vag...
 
#30 · (Edited)
Plan,
In theory I agree with this. In practice, it's very difficult for folks who are unskilled at conflict and/or (non physical) combat to go down this path.

They not only lack a plan, they don't know how to create such a plan.

For example, consider the difference between the approaches below. And ask yourself how likely each is to succeed.

1. I didn't sign up for a sexless marriage. Either we start having sex at least twice a week or I'm filing.

2. I'm starting to think you don't love me the way a wife loves a husband. Maybe that's fixable, maybe it isn't. The sexual part of the marriage is broken. We need to work on that together. Maybe it's what I'm doing - I hope so - because that's fixable.

Maybe you're simply not attracted to me as a person. That unfortunately is not fixable.

If you don't love me enough to at least tell me the truth I seriously doubt this will ever get resolved.

----------
The reason I believe this is so difficult is that it takes a high EQ to accurately distinguish between things that are 'true', and things that are 'TRUE'.

Lower case true stuff - is toxic. These are hoops that have nothing to do with desire.

Upper case TRUE stuff is absolutely necessary in order to create desire.

Can an 'average' man differentiate between these two things? I imagine that depends on whether his wife is mostly working in good faith with him.
 
#33 ·
Maybe you're simply not attracted to me as a person. That unfortunately is not fixable.

If you don't love me enough to at least tell me the truth I seriously doubt this will ever get resolved.
Couldn't agree more. If you're NOT ATTRACTED TO EACH OTHER remotely in the least, all the counseling, duty sex, role-playing isn't going to change a d*mn thing.

If my ex-husband would have only been honest with me (and himself) and given up his ego trip, we would have saved BOTH ourselves a h*ll of a lot of heartache. And money.
 
#32 ·
Loving sex only makes a bonafide marriage even better, not worse!

Whenever the act of sex suddenly disappears from the marriage radar, then control of the other marital partner becomes all too prevalent. Either that or, God forbid, an outright commission of covert infidelity!

Posted via Mobile Device
 
#40 ·
doesn't the family normally degrade
Perhaps normally, in the statistical sense. That leaves plenty of couples beyond the second or third standard deviation who get along well and for whom the damage from split households outweighs the moderate degradation.

It's been discussed in multiple threads before, and generally the conclusion has been that there is no universal prescription and that people who can pull off a civic and friendly roommate-type arrangement should not be argued out of attempting to do so.
 
#43 ·
Here is my perspective on this illogical situation. My marriage has been sexless for the better part of a year, but was well on it's way to sexless for the past 5 years. Personally, I can put up with pretty much anything except abuse to give my kids a stable, two-parent home and I believe parents have the obligation to make this sacrifice for their children. I plan to divorce my husband once my youngest is off to college in 12 years, assuming of course that a miracle doesn't occur and he becomes the man I need him to be. However, I am in school now and anticipate he will leave me as soon as I graduate in two years.

I believe that it is wholly possible to provide a safe, loving home for your kids within a sexless marriage. There is no seething resentment or anger in our relationship, as far as I can tell. There is much loneliness on my HD end and tend to I assume my husband is sleeping with women when he travels for work (he has cheated once that I know about). We are in fact good friends and enjoy each other's company. As for the money, I couldn't care less besides providing for the basics and a little extra once in a while. My husband likes the finer things in life and is eagerly awaiting the day I start bringing in money (I'm a SAHM/student). Now that I consider it, maybe he will wait to leave until I am firmly employed in my career so he won't have to pay any spousal support.

Maybe I feel this way because I have had only been in this situation for 5 years, unlike many here. My loneliness hasn't been something I can't deal with and intentionally I haven't allowed myself into any situations I think could tempt me to cheat.

We only married because we had a kid and another on the way. He was neglectful and very Beta once we married, which caused my attraction to wane early on. Then there were several events that caused me to lose nearly all respect for him and actually become repulsed by his touch to the point where I cry and feel nauseous whenever we have had sex the past couple years, but I don't let him know I cry. I "ate" my HD feelings (since, as a mom, I can't stand the guilt of smoking and having my kids know) and have gained weight. I know this must make him less attracted to me, which I suspect is part of the motivation to not lose any weight. Kind of twisted, I know.

The truth is, I think about sex many times each day and fantasize about the day I can actually have sex again again. I have a feeling like I'm always a bit hungry, and nothing I eat or "do" can fill that empty space inside. I completely get the men I have read on TAM and elsewhere who A/B their wives and demand they either start to enthusiastically have sex or let their husband go so he can have his needs met. I just can't pull that trigger because I owe the kids the right to live with their dad, who is their favorite person in the world. I know if I left and got what I need elsewhere, their relationship would suffer. It is a price I cannot bear.
 
#48 ·
Good evening
one problem with these threads is the almost exclusively have posts by either HD people or conditionally LD people who explain why they are LD - usually very valid reasons.

What is missing are the natural LD people who just don't want sex or who want very little, and who can think of nothing that will change that. Every once in a while they post (the "running around the maze looking for sex" was from one), but its rare. i wish they would post more, but they tend to become targets of the frustration of all the HDs.

My wife is at least honest. She makes it clear that there is nothing I could do that would make her more interested in sex. There are always reasons why she isn't interested at some particular time, but she doesn't present them as my "fault" or anything I can change.

Unlike some of the people here, we are no longer in a no-sex situation. We do have sex almost every week (used to be eery couple of months). Its a limited range of activities but at least there is something. I think it is as far as she can be pushed without feeling like she is trading sex just to keep me from leaving.
 
#49 ·
I mean if you are willing to put up with a sexless marriage and sacrifice yourself for the sake of your kids, doesn't the family normally degrade enough in these types of situations to the point that the family that stayed together only provided a marginal benefit vs splitting in the first place?
Wasn't this original idea behind creating family - to ensure that offsprings are taken care of?

All the love, sexual satisfaction, compatibility are rather new ideas, one of the "problems" of the first world.
 
#50 ·
Honestly I'd say that's debatable. I think the primary purpose of the family was a means of survival. Mom and dad makes an investment in having kids with the expectation that the kids work for the family as contributors do the welfare of the group and then later the adult children take care of the parents in their old age. Of course, children could also be used as a means to unifying 2 families thru an arranged marriage. Bottom line, for much of our history children were useful assets for the betterment/survival of the family - even if it means selling one or more children as slaves in order to feed the rest of the group.
 
#55 ·
You can't "control":
- What your kids think (or will think) of you.
- What your spouse thinks of you.
- What your boss thinks of you.
- What strangers on the street think of you.

But you can control what YOU think of you. You can control what you do or don't do in a situation.

I understand a sexless marriage due to lack of respect (whatever the source is that brings about the lack of respect... there can be many). What I do not understand is why a person that has a basic need for sexual intimacy and fulfillment will willingly choose to remain with someone who will rarely, if ever, meet that need. Just like I would not understand why a LD would choose to stay with a HD, who is most certainly adding pressure to the relationship by having too many (frequent) "needs."

It's OK to acknowledge that you can have an otherwise good relationship... you can be great parents, hard workers, good people, great roommates, have amazingly good fun together, etc. But I could have all of that from a really good friend. I want more from my partner and someone who is unable to meet my personal needs just isn't going to cut it for me.
 
#58 ·
You can probably ask if the mods will (or have the capability to) reinstate your post.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Personal
#60 ·
Pretty simple if you ask me..

If you are continuously not getting your part of the bargain in a relationship..then step up and make it very clear that there are consequences..and be willing to follow through..dont become a doormatt..letting anothee person constantly get away with bad behavior with no consequences is just enabling them.

People want sex..and there should be no expectation that you are going to stick around if your not getting it. Unless its medical/depression etc its unexcusable. life is too short to waste time.
 
#65 ·
Bugged,

I'm summarizing another man's thread. It's an accurate summary. The fact that you don't like it, doesn't make it untrue.

And I didn't suggest it represents the 'average'.

If you go read the threads written by LD posters here, you'll find I have made an effort to make TAM a friendlier place for them.

I shared this guys story because there is a dynamic that can creep into an HD/LD marriage whereby the spouse both gradually increase the virtual 'price' of sex. In that model, a tipping point is slowly reached. At the tipping point, the HD becomes so desperate that they agree to ANY price for sex.

But really in a closed system where I'm trading mostly non monetary goods for sex, is it accurate to say the price of sex has sky rocketed? Or is it more accurate to say that the value/price of all the things I'm trading to get sex, has crashed?

That's basically what happened in the story I described.



QUOTE=Bugged;13262938]I won't comment other posts as this thread is so one-sided that it would be pointless...I will comment on this because I think it's an example of the old adagio that all non sexual intimacy is supposed to be something that only the LD partner wants...it's just a way to reinforce the idea that the LD partner is just a stupid/selfish/self centered jerk who takes a lot and doen't give the one single thing that the HD partner wants in return (sex), and this is not true in most cases in IMO.
:nerd:[/QUOTE]
 
#67 ·
My wife and I have been very happily married for over 25 years. We're very much in love, respect each other immensely, have common interests, co-parent very well, rarely argue, etc. Neither of us is particularly HD. With young kids, we'd find ourselves not doing it for a month at a time.

But, the last 2 or 3 years we've really stepped up the sex and the marriage has gone from excellent to extraordinary.

The more sex we had the more we both wanted. The less we had, the less we wanted. We're both a lot happier with more.
 
#73 ·
I think the true LDs are extremely rare.

I think almost all LDs are situational.

There is either some resentment blocking desire or laziness or whatever.

It's not that there is no desire.

It's like a cold pool. LDs are like the people who try to inch their way in. "Oh my god it's so cold I'll never get used to it!"

HDs are the people who just dive right in and know they will like it once they're in.

But when an LD can just put aside their mental block and "jump in" they will see that it is not really cold at all.
 
#74 ·
I have found, more often than not, female desire is highly contextualized and situational.

Witness the conservative housewives that band together and go on a girl's trip to vegas and all of a sudden it's 'girls gone wild' time.

Why? Because it's socially supported, mutually encouraged, consequence free, and full of attractive people.

So when I started to try to inject this kind of vibe into our marriage more frequently... all of a sudden she opened up a lot.
 
#85 ·
A few more thoughts...

There's two real reasons in my view. What I have coined "stupid" and "evil". The first is plain ignorance, the second is intentional. Note the quotes around the words. Also it's one the other or a mix.

A lot of those who have "fixed" their marriage are likely the first category, "ignorance" in the sense the LD partner isn't fully aware of what the non LD is going on. A lot of methods like MMSLP or NMMNG type books or 180 etc seem to work well.

As we move to the "evil" side things get more interesting :). Not only the LD is aware of what is going on but they often actively go out of their way to deflect any efforts for a fix. There's a big intentional component here.

The second category is usually the bottom of the barrel cases we see in TAM (sounds familiar :)).

Divorce threats etc may work but the results aren't across the board equal. First group cases it's a great wake up call and work well, second group cases tend to have the opposite effect.

I wish I had an intern or two to plow thru TAM and collect some data on this, it's just a theory but I think there's something there.
 
This post has been deleted
#93 · (Edited)
Man, more people agreeing with me. Look out purveyors of pop psych DIY marriage help books! Stand aside and let a real (*) psychologist show you how to do it :)

View attachment 36746

(*) well, my degrees say psychology :rofl:

I think Plan nailed it. Not a lot of people acknowledge "evil" LD spouses... It's easier to try to blame all kinds of things other than the actual root cause.

They never see intent or "evil". They don't know enough about the darkness of the human mind so they give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Things slow down, then come to a crawl and one can actually hear the rationalization hamster running laps in their heads...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top