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LD's enjoying but not wanting sex

109K views 2K replies 61 participants last post by  Catherine602 
#1 ·
Good evening
A post in another thread made me aware of something strange in my wife's sexual behavior. She rarely wants sex, but when she does, she physically enjoys it, often very enthusiastically.

That could be explained by her just rarely wanting sex, but I think there is more. The last couple of years she has given me a BJ as a "gift" for my birthday (a practice I'm going to stop). She really dislikes doing that, and won't do it any other time - but doing it gets her so aroused that she wants me to give her an orgasm afterwards (which I always do).

At times when we are lying in bed, if I say something vaguely sexual, she will tell me to stop because she doesn't want to get aroused.

But at the same time moderate intimacy - naughty notes at work, hugs, intimate kisses etc, she loves.

As I see it, its very strange, she seems to actively not want to become aroused - except on the rare occasions when she wants sex - and then it is always planned.

It is as if she sometimes wants sex - and then she will be sure to get it (not that I object, but she will make a real effort to overcome obstacles). At other times, she not only doesn't want sex, she doesn't want to want sex. Its almost as if having sex when she didn't plan it in advance is somehow giving in. Its as if she thinks spontaneous sex is wrong.


Anyone else seen similar behavior?
 
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#4 ·
At other times, she not only doesn't want sex, she doesn't want to want sex.
That line is kind of funny, and I can relate to it when I am busy and need to get stuff done. In my opinion this seems to be something like sticking to a mental plan you have in your mind for what will and will not happen that day.

Let's say you really like pizza, but you are already planning to eat something else that has taken time to plan out the ingredients. You get a coupon for a free pizza that is good for today only, and it will likely frustrate you.

Regarding sex, there must be some negative things associated with preparing for sex that your wife has to mentally overcome, and therefor she tries to avoid it until it is planned.

My wife says she feels inadequate because I complain she never gives me enough, and I tell her that she should instead take that as a compliment. She will then proceed to tell me I can't have anymore this week and she will put her boobs in my face and laugh at me! She knows this gets me aroused at a moment I have to run take care of work. While I do find it a bit frustrating, I don't mind being crazy for my wife AND having to get my work done. If only our wives would have the opportunity to enjoy the same state of mind every once and a while so they know what we go through!

Cheers,
Badsanta
 
#5 ·
This is the most puzzling case of "sexless marriage". Yet it would seem to be the most easily solved.

If the wife just hates sex or isn't attracted to her husband, then it's a bigger hill to climb (and I have no idea what's up when the guy is LD).

But, I hear all the time about wives that "always enjoy sex when they have it" but don't have it.

In the previous thread, UMP referred to the analogy of going to the gym; sure it's hard to get off the couch and go but you know that you need to do it and you'll feel great when you do.

In the real gym situation, that's my wife. In the sex dept, my wife knows how important it is and makes sure it happens.

So, this seems easy enough to fix; tell your wife how important this is to you and (assuming you're a good guy), if she loves you and cares about you're happiness she'll put out the effort to get started especially when she knows that she will enjoy it once it gets started. One reason why this might not happen is if the husband has never really made clear just how important this is to him (although I know that's not your situation Richard).

So, if she doesn't what does that mean? 1) She's completely selfish and simply doesn't care about your happiness or 2) She's somehow gotten the message that it's morally wrong for her to have sex unless she really wants to. The second is absurd. I'd suggest not doing what she enjoys unless you really, really want to and see if that gives her any insight to the situation.

I had a related situation. I love blowjobs. My wife, at worst, doesn't mind giving them. I know that my wife loves me. I know that my wife is self-centered but I also know that she cares enough about my happiness to put herself out for me. So, for 20 years, I made it clear how much I appreciated this. It happened from time to time but not very often. I was convinced that she knew how much I enjoyed this but, still, nothing. I didn't ask often (my problem) but there were plenty of situations where I'd get "I'll blow you tomorrow" and then, nothing.

Finally, over the course of a week or so, I succeeded in letting her know how very important this was to me. After a couple of false starts, she finally understood.

So for the last couple of years, I just walk into the room with an erection and she smiles, drops to her knees and sucks me dry.

Sex in general is far better these days, she's more aroused than ever and having the best orgasms of her life. The spark in our previously excellent marriage is better than ever, there's just an zap in the air whenever we're alone together.

She claims she never really knew how much it meant to me. She regrets all the years when it wasn't this way.

So, I came on to TAM to tell guys that they have to be VERY clear in telling their wives what they want and figured that would solve all kinds of problems.

Unfortunately, it hasn't been that easy for others it seems.
 
#11 ·
Good evening
I wouldn't rule out your #2. It seems to fit the pattern - maybe she has the idea that doing anything sexual that she doesn't actively want at that moment is somehow wrong or degrading. Even if she enjoys it once she is doing it, maybe she feels "used".

I did have a very clear talk with her about how important sex and BJs are to me. As with all previous talks she got very upset, Then a week later things improved a lot, then after a couple of months declined again.

I could model it as selfish - that she only does what she thinks she has to in order to avoid divorce (a miserable thought), but she really does seem to enjoy sex once it starts.

Possibly she thinks sex is wrong. She sometimes gets aroused and can'r resist, but then feels guilty afterwards? She did seem to come from an unfortunate household - In all the time I visited I don't think I ever saw a sign of affection between her parents. (but thats true for me too....)



I'm very glad you improved things with your wife.


sinp
So, if she doesn't what does that mean? 1) She's completely selfish and simply doesn't care about your happiness or 2) She's somehow gotten the message that it's morally wrong for her to have sex unless she really wants to. The second is absurd. I'd suggest not doing what she enjoys unless you really, really want to and see if that gives her any insight to the situation.

I had a related situation. I love blowjobs. My wife, at worst, doesn't mind giving them. I know that my wife loves me. I know that my wife is self-centered but I also know that she cares enough about my happiness to put herself out for me. So, for 20 years, I made it clear how much I appreciated this. It happened from time to time but not very often. I was convinced that she knew how much I enjoyed this but, still, nothing. I didn't ask often (my problem) but there were plenty of situations where I'd get "I'll blow you tomorrow" and then, nothing.

Finally, over the course of a week or so, I succeeded in letting her know how very important this was to me. After a couple of false starts, she finally understood.

So for the last couple of years, I just walk into the room with an erection and she smiles, drops to her knees and sucks me dry.

Sex in general is far better these days, she's more aroused than ever and having the best orgasms of her life. The spark in our previously excellent marriage is better than ever, there's just an zap in the air whenever we're alone together.

She claims she never really knew how much it meant to me. She regrets all the years when it wasn't this way.

So, I came on to TAM to tell guys that they have to be VERY clear in telling their wives what they want and figured that would solve all kinds of problems.

Unfortunately, it hasn't been that easy for others it seems.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Well,
Sex is very carnal. It's sloppy, emotional, almost painful in it's pleasure. I can very much see people, male and female having a hang up on this.
My wife was very similar. Never wanting to talk about sex, never wanting to try something new, difficult letting herself go in the moment.

Perhaps it's just years of false conditioning thinking that sex is somehow dirty or wrong, even in marriage. It's taken me 24 years to figure my wife out, and I am still learning.

At the moment there is nothing a couple glasses of wine can't fix :)

The ultimate is out of town hotel, alone, wine, hot tub, and pay per view porn.
In time I hope it gets easier and cheaper to produce the same hot results.
 
#8 ·
Well,
Sex is very carnal. It's sloppy, emotional, almost painful in it's pleasure. I can very much see people, male and female having a hang up on this.
My wife was very similar. Never wanting to talk about sex, never wanting to try something new, difficult letting herself go in the moment.

Perhaps it's just years of false conditioning thinking that sex is somehow dirty or wrong, even in marriage. It's taken me 24 years to figure my wife out, and I am still learning.

At the moment there is nothing a couple glasses of wine can't fix :)

The ultimate is out of town hotel, alone, wine, hot tub, and pay per view porn.
In time I hope it gets easier and cheaper to produce the same hot results.
We take our own porn with us on a USB. Cheaper and more attuned to our tastes.

Left one attached in a hotel room once. Hope the next guest enjoyed it.
 
#13 ·
What would the response be to the following:

"I'm having a problem with the knowledge that, even though you know how happy sex makes me and believing that you enjoy having sex when we have it; you are still reluctant to have sex with me.

I find myself having to think that either you don't care about my happiness or that you find having sex with me repulsive.

I don't think I can be happy in this marriage while believing either of the above"
 
#15 ·
Good evening
I've tried almost exactly that. It results in apologies and tears, and emotional upset. Then an endless list of excuses (too tired, can't sleep after sex, etc etc). The excuses are in themselves completely valid, but inconsistent with other behavior - lack of sleep makes her not want sex, but she is perfectly happy to spend the day hiking in the jungles of Borneo.

After a discussion like this things get briefly better then decline again. As they decline she gives excuses (without my asking) and apologizes for the lack of sex. She will even offer to "do something for me" by which she means a handjob - but I know that she will then complain the next day that she didn't sleep, and a non-enthusiastic HJ where she is just waiting for me to get off is not really worth much to me anyway. I think she offers because she knows I won't accept.

I'm just not willing to upset her that much, that often so that I can get sex.
 
#14 ·
Richard--does she exhibit tendencies of needing to be in control of situations? It kind of sounds to me like she may not want to allow herself to become aroused because that represents a loss of control.
 
#23 ·
Idk. A lot of people are obsessed with following and charting everything about their favorite sports team. The great thing about keeping stats is that when charted you can see things you wouldnt normally notice that may help you in the future to have a better approach or prediction. I E If u charted everything about sex for one year, including frequency, rating, etc. You may find a pattern. Maybe the rating went down in the beginning of every month. Or the frequency is less during 'x', etc. Sounds smart to me
 
#28 ·
I can only speak for myself. No Idea How It Works For Others.

There are three types of "arousal" for me (this is how I classify them in my head):

1. Would do anything for sex. (A definite 3-4 day window around ovulation for me...5% of the time)

2. Meh, could be convinced but take it or leave it. (75% of the time)

3. Psh, No way. (20% of the time...I suffer from health problems and during a flare I am sick and can't handle it)

It sounds like you may be describing stage 2 to me. I'll try to give a little background on what is going through my head at that time.

First, physically sex never feels as good then as during stage 1. I am also very slow to warm up. That means that I have to put a large time commitment in to get real satisfaction out of an encounter, to warm up and even have a hope of climax for myself. Your going to have to take me from zero all the way to the top. In stage 1 I am coming to you already about 50% there, with an internal desire.

Because of this time commitment and even being unsure if I will truly be able to physically respond and enjoy it fully, it is easy to become overwhelmed with reasons "not to" do it.

For example: it is late and I was already only going to get 5 hours of sleep. If we do this it means I am down to 4 hours of sleep.

Another example: a perceived impatience on his part. If it looks like he just wants a quickie and I know I need an hour, I know I'm not going to get anything out of this. It can be intimidating when he is obviously super charged with arousal when he approaches me and I'm 50 steps behind him. (This is usually just giving HJ or BJ as I decide that there's no way I can keep up with him that time.)

Or: Some other physical feeling is overwhelming my ability to relax. Not feeling well. Stress. Anxiety. (These can usually be helped by H either offering to listen to me or a few beers, but it is incredibly infrequent that he wants to listen to me vent!) It makes it seem like an even more insurmountable effort to get pleasure out of it.

Hope this helps.
 
#29 ·
Kag: Thanks for sharing your inner reality.

This is the crux of marriage. Most people want to be married to someone whose response to "I am at 0 and I don't want to start sex unless I am already at 50" is along the lines of "OK, thanks for letting me know. Let me know the next time you are at 50" instead of "but I am already at 99, what about me?"

However, as Mem said the problem with admitting "I don't like sex when I start at 0 and you start at 50 or higher" is that this is often countered by "that would be OK if you get to 50 several times a month. If you only start at 50 once a month, that isn't enough for me and we need to find a way to either get you to 50 more often or get you to be OK with consenting to sex more often even when you are at 0".

In many cases, there is no way to get the person from 0 to 50 more often. There may be no way for them to feel good about frequent sex sessions that start at zero. And there may be no way to get their partner to be happy with only having sex the single time each month their partner is at 50.

As always, the "solution" for the HD is not to mope but to become the best person you can be. That will maximize both the number of occasions when your spouse gets to 50 on their own and the number of times when they will be OK with having sex even though they are at zero. When you have consistently gotten yourself to a good place, if your spouse can't get themselves to 50 very often, and still isn't comfortable having sex when they start at 0, then you have some difficult choices to make. Leaving on account of the mismatch should definitely be on the list of choices.
 
#32 ·
I think your summation is fair. It's fine for a HD partner to say that they cannot accept that the LD partners baseline desire is not going to match theirs and they need someone with a more closely matched baseline to be happy.

The hardest part is that the baseline is so fluid in women. From my experience at least. I am not the same baseline as when I was in my early 20s (when I met my H), or before I had kids. It's not better or worse, just different. I suspect it will change through out my life. How do you cope with that for the duration of a marraige? How do you "sell" yourself to a partner when you really don't know what your drive is going to be in 5 years or 10 years or 20? It's not wanting to bait and switch but also truly not being able to predict the future.

To me, my baseline is largely unaffected by outside influences. It is just my physiological makeup (hormones?). Sure, if he's being a complete asshat I could lose my desire. But that is very rare. What he doesn't understand is that it really has nothing to do with him. Sure, there are varying things he could do to help me get from zero to maybe a 10 or 20 on the scale before we are in the bedroom. But you're talking about 10 points on the 100 point scale. Marginal differences at best.

New relationship happy chemicals can override the baseline for a short while - if they could find a magic pill that would allow you to continue to ride that wave indefinitely how great would that be. But eventually no matter who you are with you will settle into your normal state again.

Fwiw - in my personal case, I have some compounding issues. I take SSRIs. But I also have a good relationship with my doctor and see her regularly and have spoken to her many times about wishing for a stronger libido. I know it's controversial but I am planning to ask her at my next visit about the new female "viagra" to see if I am a good candidate. Not sure if it would be given to me with my medical history though.
 
#50 ·
Fozzy,

The reason Kag's post resonated with me so much is that she hit the magic three: pacing, affect and mutuality

Mutuality is the most complicated of the three. In a way it can be broken into three bands:
1. Too cold: This is the - oh ok - can you just give me a hj, bj whatever. It is an overt request for a one way experience. Too little reciprocity.

2. Too hot/needy: This is the partner who gets agitated when their LD partner is slow to arousal or doesn't orgasm. They put too much pressure on their partner to 'match' their response pattern.

3. Just right - AKA the Goldilocks zone: This is the partner who makes sure it's as good as possible for you. If they can get you to the rapture they happily do. If not, they accept that without comment or complaint.

----
Affect/synchronicity

Doesn't matter if I'm at 50 or 75 or 99 - I don't express arousal much more than M2. I'm intentionally low affect until she gets ramped up. This is too avoid that scenario where the puppy dog is humping your leg. The only deviation from this is the involuntary hyperventilation when I rapture.

----
Pacing
If we don't have at the very least a half hour, I'm not interested. I prefer a full hour. There's no tension over this. We either have time or I say: tomorrow

The consequence of all this is - M2 knows she can start at zero and have at minimum a 'good' experience. The result is that M2 radiates happiness when we start. And that is both a good and necessary thing since I couldn't 'play' if she seemed unhappy or indifferent.


QUOTE=Fozzy;13547010]I think for a lot of HD spouses, just knowing that you're able/willing to be available with a cheerful heart would be enough to get through those rough years (provided of course that the HD doesn't abuse it). The cheerful heart and giving attitude is of paramount importance though. Being available for sex while staring at the clock or openly resenting it is probably the worst thing an LD could do.

Mem and is wife are a great example of how this dynamic can play out.[/QUOTE]
 
#55 ·
Anon,

Raw desire sans the rocket fuel of testosterone is an unpredictable thing.

I'll frame this differently. Do you believe Kag is making a good faith effort to sustain their sex life despite a lack of raw desire?

I think she is.

As for her H, I honestly believe he's mostly unable to 'read' her, and isn't terribly skilled at the initiation sequence. So he's contributing to there situation. On top of all that, they seem to have created a situation where they are chronically over scheduled.

The term 'switch' implies she has consciously done something that isn't very nice. I don't think it applies.
 
#57 ·
Anon,

Agreed that we don't have the full picture.

If I was K2 the first thing I'd do is work towards not being 'over scheduled'. Trying to 'squeeze' sex into a jam packed life just wouldn't work for me. And frankly I have a strong aversion to sleep deprivation so I wouldn't initiate if I knew that doing so would result in M2 being shorted on a good nights sleep.

I did have a firm stance on the schedule which was: You don't have to work, or worry about money. I'm not ok with being squeezed out of the schedule.

M2 was overall good about that.



QUOTE=anonmd;13549026]We disagree on your last sentence, that's ok ;)

As for the rest, sure I'll go along with that with the limited info at hand. Not even sure he is unhappy, yet she says 'yikes' to herself after a period of time so there must be some restlessness I'd think.[/QUOTE]
 
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