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post #31 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon1111 View Post
Taken at face value based on what you posted, this guy is being unreasonable.

He might just be a total jerk (as you've presented him). Anyone who would leave his wife or cheat on her because she won't do anal would fit that description in my book.

However, I get the strong sense that he was probably already at the end of his rope before this became THE issue.

You two probably have significant sexual compatibility issues on the whole.

So the anal thing was just the last straw.

Let's look at this from the other angle:

How often are you rejecting his advances both in terms of frequency and in terms of particular sexual acts?

Would you say that your default is to say "no" in general?

Clearly your husband is not behaving in a nice way, but I am trying to understand what led up to this unreasonable perspective he has.
He's not a total jerk- it's just the jerky stuff that I need help with He had a rough upbringing, filled with rejection, so I think that plays into his reactions. He only hears the 'no's' when they happen, and takes all the yesses for granted. There's are no's, but I would say it's not the default... but always the result of him pushing me for more than I'm comfortable with, so it's not an uncommon word either.

I don't think the anal stuff is the straw that broke the camel - it's that he's feeling bored in bed without it. And yeah, he does watch a lot of porn, so the things I don't do are constantly in the spotlight. But he says that's his only outlet if I won't do the things he wants.
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post #32 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 01:59 PM
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

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Originally Posted by Chickaboom View Post
He's not a total jerk- it's just the jerky stuff that I need help with He had a rough upbringing, filled with rejection, so I think that plays into his reactions. He only hears the 'no's' when they happen, and takes all the yesses for granted. There's are no's, but I would say it's not the default... but always the result of him pushing me for more than I'm comfortable with, so it's not an uncommon word either.

I don't think the anal stuff is the straw that broke the camel - it's that he's feeling bored in bed without it. And yeah, he does watch a lot of porn, so the things I don't do are constantly in the spotlight. But he says that's his only outlet if I won't do the things he wants.
OK, so there is a difference in perception maybe on the volume of "no's"?

Let's try to be concrete here:

What percentage of the time that he initiates are you enthusiastically saying "yes"?

What percentage are you saying "no"?

What percentage are you saying "yes" in words but engaging grudingly so that he might perceive a "no"
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post #33 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 02:42 PM
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

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Originally Posted by Chickaboom View Post
My 15 year marriage is on the brink of divorce.

......by alternatives like oral sex or whatever if I really wasn't in the mood for intercourse. So we were usually intimate every other day in some way or another.

But it's never been enough, and he is never happy. He gets extremely moody, and gives me the silent treatment. It's like walking on eggshells to be around him,.....

There are some sexual acts he wants me to do (butt play, I hope that's not TMI to say!) that I just have no interest in. I've tried, and just hate it. He says this fetish is part of who he is, and that me not engaging in that with him is ignoring his needs and not respecting a very important part of him.

He wanted to get that need filled outside the marriage if I was unable to comply. When I refused to have sex with him if he was with someone else, he left. So now we're separated.

He now wants to compromise... if I give him one night a month where I won't say no to his fetish, and have sex at a couple times a week, he will come back and be a happy, easier to live with guy, as he won't be sex starved. What do you think? Is this a need I have to meet, or a want that he shouldn't be insisting on?
Some advice from an old guy who has been married to the same woman over 44 years. Marriage is a constant renegotiation and compromise where you grow and stretch your and his limits over time.

The comment about never enough and walking on eggshells is something my wife said to me when we had a Sex Starved Marriage, prior to reconciling with a sex therapist.

You sound like you love this guy and would like to make it work. Ask him to go with you to marriage counseling with a sex therapist. Yes, a fetish by definition is a need, he probably doesn't have a true fetish. Tell him that a sex therapist can help both of you and that from what you know you are not broken and in need of fixing and he is not broken and in need of fixing either, but the two of you need to find a reasonable compromise you can both live with.

Threatening going outside of the marriage to get his "desires" met is not the sign of a husband who takes his marriage seriously. If he may have, make sure the two of you both get tested for STD's. I can understand why you separated.

Now it is clear he wants back and is saying he can compromise. Too bad the two of you couldn't have gotten to that point sooner.

You should remind him that you have tried it and didn't care for it, but you are willing to talk compromise to see if there is something that you can live with.


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Originally Posted by Chickaboom View Post
I think if he could go back in time, he would have chosen a different wife. I think we both hoped our sex life would grow together, but under the pressure, I don't feel that mine held a fighting chance.

It's not that it isn't a big deal to me that he feels rejected. I have huge compassion for him, and hate seeing him so upset. I guess I just don't feel that it's right for him to demand something that I'm so uncomfortable with. I have tried making compromises for him: we do kind of hands off remote butt toys on him, as well as this pump thing. Then I can use it while trying to focus on something else. But the idea of actively penetrating him with a dido or strap on to me is just such a turn off. Also we've tried ways that he can enjoy my rear, but couldn't find a way to please him enough without me jumping out of my skin. I don't honestly know why it bothers me so much, but it does. And with all the pressure to perform, I don't feel loved and treasured.

I just find myself wondering, is all his moodiness and passive aggressive type of behaviour a response to not having a sexual need met? Is this a want that he is selfishly perusing, or is it a need that he simply cannot live without? If it agree to participate in this stuff that I really do not want to do, am I being a doormat or a loving wife? I feel like a sex object right now, where everything done or not done throughout the day is just to try to get what he wants in bed. I am resentful, and he is mean, and it seems impossible to turn around.
This may be TMI, but I assume you are talking about using a "Fleshlight" anal model on him and the Aneros prostate massager? If so suggest them in your negotiations again, but ask him how you can make it more realistic for him, if you can again use them. (P.S. Fleshlight has an anal model you can get on hands and knees and hold between your thighs while he simulates anal on you. With the Aneros, it is male operated medical device that stimulates the prostate based on his contracting the annus, but you can hold him while this happens, verbally give him permission and stroke his head or chest and cuddle with him so he feels loved while getting his protate play.)

OK, pegging 101 for women. Take a couple minutes, have a glass of wine first and go to the following website and learn a little bit about what he might be emotionally going through and what might be motivating him in regards to you stimulating him anally, Ruby Ryder's Pegging Paradise It might change some of your attitudes.

You are a loving wife because you have tried. You are not a doormat because you put your foot down and said no. Educate yourself as to what he really wants. Use a sex therapist to help you talk to him about this and to find out what you are willing to do and if the sex therapist can suggest small steps or alternatives that might satisfy his desires that would not cross your boundaries. That is what sex therapists are trained to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickaboom View Post
He's not a total jerk- it's just the jerky stuff that I need help with He had a rough upbringing, filled with rejection, so I think that plays into his reactions. He only hears the 'no's' when they happen, and takes all the yesses for granted. There's are no's, but I would say it's not the default... but always the result of him pushing me for more than I'm comfortable with, so it's not an uncommon word either.

I don't think the anal stuff is the straw that broke the camel - it's that he's feeling bored in bed without it. And yeah, he does watch a lot of porn, so the things I don't do are constantly in the spotlight. But he says that's his only outlet if I won't do the things he wants.
A few final suggestions. You might want to read Chapman's 5 languages of love and one of the newer books by David Schnarch.

My primary love languages are touch and words of affirmation/praise. Not sure what you H's are. But for me, if my wife wants me to feel unloved all she needs to do is not touch me, refuse to touch me, not praise me or worse criticize me. When you tell you H no are you doing it in a way that makes him feel unloved? I have told my wife that if she wants to critisize me she needs to tell me she loves me, touch me so I am feeling loved, THEN gently tell me the behavior change she desires, while holding me and then later praise me for something.

One of the key concepts by Schnarch is that marriage is a crucible, one of the hardest things two people can do. It requires to people to stretch themself and grow in ways they don't think are possible. It also requires them to self-soothe when they come across something very unsettling, try it and then either own it or be true to themself and set a boundary.

One of his examples is how in the world can two people French Kiss? He states that the idea of his putting his saliva in your mouth is just disgusting on the surface. But, people try it, find they can live with it and then they own it and actually can develop a like for it after a while.

I saw a really great TED talk by Ester Perl about affairs and if you watch it to the end, where she talks about her advice to couples who have had affairs about starting their next relationship with their spouse, you gain an interesting insight in to the boredom thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q

Good luck to you. As someone who came very close to divorcing my wife because I was in a Sex Starved Marriage, I can tell you that saving a marriage is hard work, but very satisfying. A good Sex Therapist can help as can focusing on negotiating a compromise you can both live with.
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post #34 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 02:55 PM
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

some really great balanced advice above. Bravo.
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post #35 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon1111 View Post
OK, so there is a difference in perception maybe on the volume of "no's"?

Let's try to be concrete here:

What percentage of the time that he initiates are you enthusiastically saying "yes"?

What percentage are you saying "no"?

What percentage are you saying "yes" in words but engaging grudingly so that he might perceive a "no"
Enthusiastic yes 50%
No 25%

I don't grudgingly have sex very often. The other 25% is more like me saying I'm not in the mood for intercourse so i'll give him a bj or some other alternative

But even with the enthusiastic yes's, he always hears no's because he asks for stuff outside my comfort zone
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post #36 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 03:24 PM
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

Quote:
So we were usually intimate every other day in some way or another.

But it's never been enough, and he is never happy. He gets extremely moody, and gives me the silent treatment.
He now wants to compromise... if I give him one night a month where I won't say no to his fetish, and have sex at a couple times a week, he will come back and be a happy, easier to live with guy, as he won't be sex starved. What do you think? Is this a need I have to meet, or a want that he shouldn't be insisting on?
The proposed compromise seems to be at odds (much lower) with what you say your frequency was. Which one is true? Or does "intimate in some way" mean something he does not equate to sex?
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post #37 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Young at Heart View Post
Some advice from an old guy who has been married to the same woman over 44 years. Marriage is a constant renegotiation and compromise where you grow and stretch your and his limits over time.

The comment about never enough and walking on eggshells is something my wife said to me when we had a Sex Starved Marriage, prior to reconciling with a sex therapist.

You sound like you love this guy and would like to make it work. Ask him to go with you to marriage counseling with a sex therapist. Yes, a fetish by definition is a need, he probably doesn't have a true fetish. Tell him that a sex therapist can help both of you and that from what you know you are not broken and in need of fixing and he is not broken and in need of fixing either, but the two of you need to find a reasonable compromise you can both live with.

Threatening going outside of the marriage to get his "desires" met is not the sign of a husband who takes his marriage seriously. If he may have, make sure the two of you both get tested for STD's. I can understand why you separated.

Now it is clear he wants back and is saying he can compromise. Too bad the two of you couldn't have gotten to that point sooner.

You should remind him that you have tried it and didn't care for it, but you are willing to talk compromise to see if there is something that you can live with.




This may be TMI, but I assume you are talking about using a "Fleshlight" anal model on him and the Aneros prostate massager? If so suggest them in your negotiations again, but ask him how you can make it more realistic for him, if you can again use them. (P.S. Fleshlight has an anal model you can get on hands and knees and hold between your thighs while he simulates anal on you. With the Aneros, it is male operated medical device that stimulates the prostate based on his contracting the annus, but you can hold him while this happens, verbally give him permission and stroke his head or chest and cuddle with him so he feels loved while getting his protate play.)

OK, pegging 101 for women. Take a couple minutes, have a glass of wine first and go to the following website and learn a little bit about what he might be emotionally going through and what might be motivating him in regards to you stimulating him anally, Ruby Ryder's Pegging Paradise It might change some of your attitudes.

You are a loving wife because you have tried. You are not a doormat because you put your foot down and said no. Educate yourself as to what he really wants. Use a sex therapist to help you talk to him about this and to find out what you are willing to do and if the sex therapist can suggest small steps or alternatives that might satisfy his desires that would not cross your boundaries. That is what sex therapists are trained to do.



A few final suggestions. You might want to read Chapman's 5 languages of love and one of the newer books by David Schnarch.

My primary love languages are touch and words of affirmation/praise. Not sure what you H's are. But for me, if my wife wants me to feel unloved all she needs to do is not touch me, refuse to touch me, not praise me or worse criticize me. When you tell you H no are you doing it in a way that makes him feel unloved? I have told my wife that if she wants to critisize me she needs to tell me she loves me, touch me so I am feeling loved, THEN gently tell me the behavior change she desires, while holding me and then later praise me for something.

One of the key concepts by Schnarch is that marriage is a crucible, one of the hardest things two people can do. It requires to people to stretch themself and grow in ways they don't think are possible. It also requires them to self-soothe when they come across something very unsettling, try it and then either own it or be true to themself and set a boundary.

One of his examples is how in the world can two people French Kiss? He states that the idea of his putting his saliva in your mouth is just disgusting on the surface. But, people try it, find they can live with it and then they own it and actually can develop a like for it after a while.

I saw a really great TED talk by Ester Perl about affairs and if you watch it to the end, where she talks about her advice to couples who have had affairs about starting their next relationship with their spouse, you gain an interesting insight in to the boredom thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q

Good luck to you. As someone who came very close to divorcing my wife because I was in a Sex Starved Marriage, I can tell you that saving a marriage is hard work, but very satisfying. A good Sex Therapist can help as can focusing on negotiating a compromise you can both live with.
Thanks for all of this!

I have some reading and thinking to do
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post #38 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 03:27 PM
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

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Originally Posted by Chickaboom View Post
Enthusiastic yes 50%
No 25%

I don't grudgingly have sex very often. The other 25% is more like me saying I'm not in the mood for intercourse so i'll give him a bj or some other alternative

But even with the enthusiastic yes's, he always hears no's because he asks for stuff outside my comfort zone
OK, this is very good info.

On the stuff outside your comfort zone:

I totally understand where you are coming from there and your husband frankly sounds like a d-ck for pushing this stuff so hard.

You're not likely to see eye to on this though. This is the tough part. He really wants it, you really don't want it. There's really no room for compromise.

Where there IS room for improvement is in the other stuff.

Can you tell him flat out that you have these boundaries, you're never going to be into these few specific things (be very specific here), BUT you want to rock his world in ANY OTHER WAY.

Then enthusiastically deliver on that.

No saying"no" just because you're not precisely in the mood that night.

Let him see that he can have it VERY good with you if he can find a way to drop the annoying and aggressive requests for these particular acts.

This is about working together to create something different from maybe what either of you would choose individually, but which is much better than either of you getting hung up on this one thing.

Edit:

To be honest, the rejection rate is pretty high. That level of rejection will do damage.

You've got to take some responsibility for that, just like he has to take responsibility for pushing too hard on the specific sex acts.
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post #39 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 03:30 PM
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

Quote:
Enthusiastic yes 50%
No 25%

I don't grudgingly have sex very often. The other 25% is more like me saying I'm not in the mood for intercourse so i'll give him a bj or some other alternative
If you are at this level of yes's (and you haven't beaten down his request rate over the years) then you are doing your part.
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post #40 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 03:34 PM
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To get some perspective on how often you say no... How many times per week would you say he is asking?
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post #41 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 03:35 PM
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

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Originally Posted by anonmd View Post
If you are at this level of yes's (and you haven't beaten down his request rate over the years) then you are doing your part.
I read it as a 50% "no" rate.

If it's no better than a coin flip, it would be easy to say f- it.

My perspective is that in a healthy relationship, rejection should be very rare. Like maybe 5% of the time max.
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post #42 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 03:45 PM
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

Frequency has always been an issue from what she says, 5% would imply matched drives - ain't gonna happen here.
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post #43 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 03:52 PM
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

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Originally Posted by Chickaboom View Post
He wants to have playtime with my rear (orally) as knows I can't do penetration due to nasty injury from childbirth. The rest he wants me to do to him with toys.
Ewwww.... sorry to judge but your husband is gross.

Food, sex and intimacy are needs. What you described sounds like a mental disorder.

Continue to divorce him and find someone not broken to be with.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #44 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 04:16 PM
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

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Ewwww.... sorry to judge but your husband is gross.

Food, sex and intimacy are needs. What you described sounds like a mental disorder.

Continue to divorce him and find someone not broken to be with.
Broken ?
Mental Disorder?
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post #45 of 78 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015, 04:24 PM
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Re: Can a fetish be a need?

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Frequency has always been an issue from what she says, 5% would imply matched drives - ain't gonna happen here.
good point
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