unbelievable

You brought your view of what a "normal" marriage looks like to the relationship and so did she. Trouble is, these are two very different views.

Locard

Do you draw any parallels with the fact she has degree but never went anywhere with it, just like your relationship? And no, getting a second degree if completely unrelated in this economy is not something most people do. Good for her parents paying, but she could be working!! She is a cake eater and has zero motivation or reason to change.

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the sex will not change as I don't think you have the stomach for what needs to be done. That is not to put blame on you, you did nothing wrong but take vows. I wish you luck.

prototypev

Yeah I guess you could call her a cake eater. Her parents paid for her first degree too.

I can't really draw parallels with the fact that she has a degree but did nothing with it to our relationship though.

seeking sanity

It'd be related to a sense of entitlement. She gets what she wants without corresponding responsibility.

Hicks

Number one, do not have a child. If she decides she wants children and becomes sexual all of a sudden, don't think you hit the jackpot... realize that once the baby comes she will go right back the way she is now, but then you will be more intertwined.

You have to convince yourself that you are worthy of a loving, affectionate and sexual marriage. You have to convince yourself that a marriage is sexual and the behavior you describe is cruel. Then think about whether you can be emotionally bonded to someone so cruel and work on having the full faith of the image of the affectionate and sexual marriage you deserve will be yours in life.

Now, the catholic religion teaches that a loving, emotional and sexual bond between a husband and wife is sacred and to be pursued in life. So anyone who says they were "raised catholic" and therefore they hate sex is distorting the teachings of the church for their own selfish purpose.

Since she said you should get a f* buddy the one thing I would do is speak in an philosophical way about the purpose of sex in marriage as an emotional bond like none other in life, and the sacred nature of a sexual bond in marriage. It's clear her perception of the need for sex is very far out of whack if she tells you to get f* buddy. This is not the solution to your problem but it sure is a starting point.

Now, I firmly believe that women can change and that something in life or something that you do could trigger your wife to be sexual with you. But, in your case given the sheer magnitude of your wife's resistance to sex with you, your age, and the fact that you have no children, I would personally recommend that you invite your wife to fix her hangups with sexuality by a certain date, or that you will be initiating a separation / divorce.

lovesherman

Proto:

See if these posts resonate with you:

By Lon:

Remy, like me your H sounds like he has lived his life trying to be the "nice guy". I don't think he is necessarily emulating what he saw growing up but he did learn very early on in his formative years that to be loved he had to avoid conflict and be good, that's his basic road map of life. By doing these deeds for others its not that he genuinely feels selfless, he does them because he believes that is the way to get his needs met, when this doesn't work it gets very frustrating and so he tries even harder to please others the way he thinks they need his service. And yeah, when it doesn't work out he displaces blame and anger onto you, your friends and family. It is a very common problem, one which requires completely redefining the road map of life... (even if he is more the "I'm so bad" nice guy).

This is all new to me too, I knew I fit the nice guy mold and took pride in it not even realizing it was the reason I have never been able to find fulfillment in life. And so I've been reading No More Mr. Nice Guy and it is shocking to me how accurate the author has described my life. The simple solution is when something doesn't work do it differently and that is the hardest thing in the world for a "nice guy" to do because we can't even comprehend how to go about doing something differently.

By Catherine602:

As I said above, men appear to feel hurt, lonely and confused when sex is cut off. I leaned that they don't share the hur feelings and the feelings of loneliness.. That would go against maleness - men stuff emotions and keep going. Anger is a more acceptable reaction to reveal. My husband is high drive and he does not ask for sex and he does not tolerate going more than 4 days without. So I managed to decrease sex to a bare minimum by avoiding physical contact.

I read more books and forums and the description of the emotions of the men who were in sexless or sex starved relationdships sounded as if they were reading from the same scipt. It was deeply desturbing and difficult to read. It changed my whole notion of male sexuality. I finally asked my husband if he felt the same as the things I had read. It took some work to pry it out of him but, he admitted to feeling lonely and that I no longer loved him and lost my attraction to him. I asked him why he did not tell me. He said he thought I knew!

Why didn't I know? Why do so many woman not know? I learned that the pure pleasure seeking male sexuality is an immature phase in a man developement and probably in a wens development as well. Many men get stuck in this phase but the great majority pass through this phase and are able to merge love with sex. Many can still have emotionless sex but, sex with the one they love has emotions associated with it.

I think women in general don't understand. When I read post from some of the high drive women on TAM, they describ the same feelings of desperation when sex is too infrequent for them. So it has noting to do with gender but biology. For some reason reading women describe the same things as men made me more convinced. Every woman should experience high drive once in her life I think so that there is more understanding.

If this sounds like you, take action now to change the dynamic of your marriage.

prototypev

Thank you, and yes indeed this sounds more or less the same. My wife most probably does not understand.

Deejo

What do you want?

And quite simply, what are you prepared to do if you cannot have what you want?

Right now, I think this is what you need to focus on. Not her, and what she is, or isn't doing ... you know already know what that is, cold.

What do you want for your life? What do you want out of your marriage? Do you, can you, get either of those things married to this woman?

__________________
"I figured out they were serious eventually but was thinking it was ridiculous. I wanted to kick them in the balls." - Trenton

DanG

I'm working with a wife whose tendency and perceptions of a "natural" relationship MAY be similar to yours. I think your dilemma (and mine) are solvable. It is going to take work, research, thinking, and gaming on your part. It sounds like you BOTH "fell" into the relationship and marriage without her (especially) having to "do" much to create a bond. So, once it became legal, WTF?, 'Why should I have to do anything now? - especially since mom and dad only did it once for me." That may be unrealistically cynical, but past life experience and perception can be powerful in how we choose (consciously or unconsciously) to live. I think you have a good chance with positively shaking up the dynamics of the relationship and making positive progress. The f-buddy comment was just a "test" - a buff at worst. She probably wants to feel some fire and sexualiy, but has NO IDEA how it happens - based on her family experience or past NEED (lack of need) TO BE SEXUAL. Dont talk too much. Take action. Read MMSL, do the MAP, and worse come to worse - in due time, issue the ultimatum. Be warned however, in protecting her present comfort, she may "decide" (even unconsciously) to get pregnant, fatten you up, or have an affair to protect/continue the comfort of her status quo.
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DanG

Should not the question be, "Have you seen her masturbating?" Not to sidetrack this post, are there some women who don't EVER masturbate?
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Locard

I would be suprised if my W did. She says she never has and is not much for touching unless she has had a bit to drink, just kind of shy.

Enchantment

Yep, definitely. According to this link: The Kinsey Institute - Sexuality Information Links - FAQ [Related Resources]

It states the following:

Everybody's different and unique.

__________________

Enter these enchanted woods, You who dare. ~ George Meredith

prototypev

A little update: She has (reluctantly) agreed to visit a counsellor. Hopefully things would improve from there.

Scannerguard

Proto,

This was written by Brian awhile back in the posts. . .but I am sorry to say, I have to agree with him here.

I mean, let's face it. . .there are women out there who are raised in a family where they are told sex is dirty and wrong. . .yet. . .these women are horny (let's use the prototypical Italian Catholic girl as an example - there are many other examples).

The point is. . .you can't contain libido if you have it. It's bursting to get out. Yes, when we are with a new partner, it takes a little while to establish rhythm. Rarely do newlyweds just jump each other's bones and everything is in sync.

Humans are designed this way because reproduction (the end result of sex) is very, VERY serious biological business. That's why Catholics end up with the same abortion/contraception rate as the rest of the population despite having it knocked into their heads that premarital sex is morally wrong.

Go ahead and do counseling. You are morally obligated to in fact. I would never just say to just leave as I wouldn't wish divorce on my worst enemy. But IMHO, this doesn't bode well.

If a woman (or man) is not interested in a sexual relationship, then in my opinion, they are not "called" to marriage. They should be called to a life of service or accumulation or whatever other thing in life they value.

You can't "counsel" a libido into a woman. In fact, I think most women get wind of a "lecture" and react the opposite to counseling.

All this advice is assuming in most respects you are a normal man - work a job or two, participate in childrearing and housework and are mostly not a dolt.

__________________
And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.

TRy

Her saying that she was "willing to be best friends" when the "inevitable" divorce happens, coupled with her telling you to go find a "f*ck-buddy", is her telling you that she does not find any value in marriage to you. These are not the comments of a religious person btw, these are the comments of someone that has already checked out of the marriage. She may or may not love you, but she clearly is not in love with you. Your marriage is already over in all but the paperwork.

You do not have to worry about living the next few decades in total celibacy. If you do not leave her, she will leave you way before that, when she finds someone that she really is in love with.

I am very sorry that your marriage did not work out. I can tell that you are a good person and that you gave it your all. I cannot imagine the pain that this will cause you as you move forward with the "inevitable". But know that there is someone out their looking for someone like you.