bettertimes

Been with him since 15 (21 years together, married 8)

Last week, he tells me he isnt happy about how he always has to ask for it... wants me to initiate more. Thats a whole other subject... but want to make the point about timing... that he brought up this issue last week.

Saturday morning I go to wake him up because its 7:30 and we need to get moving to get on the lake by 9 (been planning trip since previous weekend) He wants sex.. I dont want to... trying to leave, don't want daughter to wake up and having gross unusual female issues. He just gives me this disgusted pissed look and I respond with saying "I hate my life" Wrong thing to say I know., and FYI, I don't go throwing that statement around. I'll explain that in a minute.

So I go downstairs... 3 hours later he comes down.. dressed to work at our shop.. He leaves.. doesn't come home till 9pm. Spent day working on our bronco. Ruined the day. Next day we spent the day doing chores and taking turns with our daughter... we ignored eachother pretty much. Our fights almost never go more than one day.... and without speaking!

My feelings: I said I hated my life because any freaking time I ASK for something (going on the boat... whatever) I will not get it. Or if I get what I want, he is sure to complain. It also seems like he asked for sex knowing I wanted something (to go to the lake) and then because he didnt get it, he penalized me by not going to the lake... planned for a whole week. Its not always sex manipulation either... I never get things I specifically ask for. I only get things HE wants to give me, but never what I specifically ask for..., and the idea that the weekend got wrecked over sex (which he just asked for work on.. but asked for at a really bad time) really pisses me off because I dared to plan a trip and look forward to it, but of course, theres got to be something that screws me out of my plan... I ASKED for it you see. Sure, I could have shut the door and had sex and all would have been merry and we would have gone to the lake, but I just didnt want to and there were some girl problems I was really embarrassed about, and he made me feel so gross and mad when he stared angrily at me for saying no I really got upset. I just said in my head to myself forget the dang lake, Im not going to beg to go there.. not going to service him just to get to do what I want... with that attitude, it was ruined anyway.

Couldnt he just pick a better freaking time to ask for sex... like later that night... Did he really have to cancel the whole freaking weekend!

And now, I really cant imagine ever wanting to have sex with him again. Really feels like the last straw. Work on initiating! Seriously!

I am so depressed... I am taking the day off. Yes, I do work for myself, but I never take the day off..

All comments welcome.. What do you really thinK? I can't stand fights lasting this long. I could initate, we could have sex and make up, but it wouldnt be better for me... I feel like that was the last straw. I am so sick of getting screwed out of doing "fun stuff" that was my idea. I half expected him to come home and decide we would go to the lake (that day or the next) Control issue I guess.

Help?

Enchantment

Is this your usual dynamic of relating to each other?

Because, one way to handle it, is to first acknowledge his need for sex and then have a willingness to meet that at a more opportune time.

How would it have played out if you would have leaned over, kissed him, and said with sexy smile "Honey, we don't have time right now and I've got <some weird female issue> that is making me uncomfortable right now. Can we take a raincheck for tonite? We've got these things to do today and later maybe we can go <do what you wanted>." and wink at him.

While I think that marriage is about giving and taking, it's not about keeping score on who does what for whom when.

And I think that his wanting you to initiate may be a yearning on his part to know that you actually do desire him. DO you desire him? Do you kiss him, touch him throughout the day, flirt with him? Do you tell him that you appreciate him?

God Bless.

__________________

Enter these enchanted woods, You who dare. ~ George Meredith

Deejo

Very well put.

__________________
"I figured out they were serious eventually but was thinking it was ridiculous. I wanted to kick them in the balls." - Trenton

jayde

As Enchantment mentioned. . .could you have suggested to him another time? Personally, if I get offered one more friggin 'raincheck' it might be the end for me. I just hate that term now.

He does sound like he's being manipulative. If it's a trip you planned for a week and he tosses the 'let's have sex' line at the start, this does seem a little unfair. I also have to wonder if there is manipulation and /or control issues for each of you. It would be interesting to hear his view of this whole scenario. I am not trying to negate your feelings at all, just proposing a different perspective (his) to understand the situation.

Also, could you have gone on the lake trip on your own? Perhaps you really wanted to have your husband with you, but saying he ruined the whole weekend is giving him a lot of control. I used to do the same thing with my wife - she would do something (or some series of things) and I would blame her for everything. I came to the realization that I needed to have more accountability for myself and my own happiness. again, not trying to preach to you, just sharing my own perspectives in case it may help.

Good luck.

MEM11363

"Rainchecks" work great - but they HAVE TO BE specific. For us - a raincheck means tomorrow. And tomorrow really MEANS tomorrow.

If there is some reason tomorrow is simply not possible then it is the day after tomorrow. But we don't ever say "raincheck" we say "can I rock your world tomorrow"?

bettertimes

Thank you for the reply... It has to get pretty bad for me to seek out a forum for help....

Yes, I did just sort of just lay out the "excuses" "reasons" not to have sex. I guess I felt he was manipulating me (its last minute here.....no lake unless I get sex) and didn't feel like playing understanding sweet wife, with promise of sex later. I totally get how I could have handled that WAY better. What you said to do...I have used that approach before.. and sometimes it works. I guess I just didn't have it in me to work at it so hard... when I felt manipulated...Maybe all he saw in that was how I basically disregarded him. I can understand the anger. But I have a problem with his behavior too...

I do desire him, though not always at the same time as him.

Our intamicy has almost disappeared. And not because of the weight... I could lose a few pounds too. We rarely kiss touch or anything. We can have great talks, sometimes, but holding hands, never, hugs, when I come up and give him one... Neither of us is initiating anything intimate.

He wants to buy a motorcycle so we could take rides together... we both ride, but not for years. Took a loaned bike on a poker run with friends about 10 months ago, was great. We are rediculously in debt and need to pay it off but considering letting him get the bike because we never do anything together,,, just the 2 of us (we have a 6 year old) and we really need that.

I want to bring the argument to an end.... which would require sex... but I want him to know how I feel too. It isn't just him who got shot down. The problem is not only me.

suggestions for getting made up.. without feeling bitter over it?

IanIronwood

Not that you'll be likely to appreciate my perspective, but here it is:

If you turn the whole thing around and view it from his perspective (and I admit I don't know him or your specific situation) I can see him waking up and thinking, "you know what would get my weekend trip to the lake off to a great start? Getting some sexual appreciation from my wife." Now, he might not have handled the situation with the greatest of tact and diplomacy, but hearing "I hate my life" in response isn't just going to invoke the feelings of rejection that all men struggle with, it's going to undermine everything that he feels he's contributed to your health, safety and well-being for weeks, months, or years.

As a dude, I would react very strongly and very negatively to that. I might not cancel my plans for the lake, but I can bet that those four words coming out of my wife's mouth would throw me into a spiral of resentment and frustration that would, indeed, manifest itself by avoiding the woman who just threw all of my work back in my face with one dismissive phrase. Now, did you mention your female problems as a reason? Did you let him know, explicitly, why you were frustrated and depressed?

I wouldn't say he was being manipulative at all -- he had an emotion, he reacted to what you said, and it wasn't the way you wanted him to, but being pissed off isn't exactly manipulation. He's mad at you. He has a good reason to be. Sure, you don't want to "service" him, and you don't want to take the initiative with sex . . . I understand that. But "I hate my life"? That's an indictment not just of his immediate behavior, but of your marriage as a whole. I'd be pissed too. I'd certainly agree that Enchantment's method would have had far, far better results.

But I also wouldn't be surprised if I saw his post on this board, "Wife ruined whole weekend over sex," and be completely justified.

bettertimes

jayde.... he really did ruin the trip. It was a family trip (him, me and our daughter) although we dont tell her about trips until they happen.. No letdowns. I am capable of going myself, but it would have been really hard to launch the boat/retrieve it with my 6 year old... And the only vehicle we had available at the time was his service truck (bronco needed repairs... which ironically are done... by his leaving for the whole day and working on it) So, he really did ruin the day.... I was just so depressed sunday and we werent talking that sunday was ruined as well.

Hubby doesnt know yet, but we are going to Apache lake next weekend with my mom... it will be the only chance we have to go to this lake.. I have already decided I am taking my daughter there next weekend. I even told her dangit. We are going. Period. BECAUSE I WANT TO! Haven't told hubby because I got the invite via text an hour or so after our fight. Haven't talked to husband since.

I do offer rainchecks sometimes and follow up with them.. feel I have to produce when I do the put off...

I guess it boils down to I am mad he screwed me out of something I wanted to do .... again... His bad timing... didnt he realize we needed to get going. I mentined the time... and we both know how long it takes to get there by 9.. He definitely knew that... and asked anyway.. I don't like that. Guess that is why I couldnt bring myself to offer a rain check.

Keep the suggestions coming.... this really helps me work thorough things, and how to get us back on track... THank you all for all your words so far...keem em coming!

bettertimes

ian- some powerful words there! THank you. is exactly what he probably thought. He probably does think I ruined his weekend. You could be him in disguise..... really... you pegged it DEAD ON....

But there was that female problem (very unusual) and I mentioned it. I felt gross and embarrassed at having to mention it and getting a look of disgust/anger???? probably more anger than anything. And I was mad for him not caring about that... he probably thought it was another excuse.

Yeah, the I hate my life thing just came out... summed up all the resentment I have felt... totally inappropriate... I jsut felt so vulnerable admitting to the female problem... and when he glared back at me, I just wanted to shrink into a shell/die/scream/yeall at him/run away/nothing good.

Going on these boards when things are at their worst really helps me to see his perspective better, and how much effort I need to start putting into our marriage.

working on what to do next...

could invite him home when he has a chance... we both work for ourselves in our shared business... so unless he is slammed... maybe he can come home.. maybe I will have him read this post. It is personal... but anonymous.

IanIronwood

I keep hearing "he knew" and "he didn't realize" and "we both know" and "he definitely knew" . . . but I don't hear anything about "We talked about it openly, honestly, and clearly, so that there would be no misinterpretations, no miscommunications, and no need for telepathy." It sounds to me like you got mad, stomped off, and when you didn't return to even explain yourself to him -- figuring that he should just somehow know what you were feeling and thinking without any actual verbal communication going on -- that you had abandoned not just the argument, but any further interaction with him at all.

In that case, getting dressed and going to work without your wife even trying to stop you and talk to you about it would be the appropriate thing to do. I mean, if you really wanted to go, you wouldn't let a little misunderstanding or argument get in the way, would you? Or was being pissed off at him more important than going to the lake? Just curious.

okeydokie

my wife tends to reject me in ways that i get offended somewhat. i would have absolutely no problem with her just leaning in (like Enchantment suggested) and at least acknowledging that she would also like to and suggest when she would be receptive (tonight, tomorrow, work at home monday, whatever) than to just throw up a wall. but i usually get a wall or an eye roll, and its very very demeaning. i am not usually receptive to her needs much after that, its the chicken/egg syndrome, or keeping score as someone stated.

SadSamIAm

If I went to wake up my wife and she wanted sex. I would have given it to her. Especially if we were getting ready to spend the day together. A 'connection' is a great start to a together day.

If my 'equipment' wasn't working (like your female issue), then I would have still ensured she was looked after some way (orally and/or manually).

You could have spent 5 or 10 minutes looking after his needs and he would have felt like you cared about him. And you would have had a great day.

IanIronwood

Male sexual psychology . . . I know my business.


From his perspective, this probably sounded like a lame excuse, not a legitimate complaint. Not saying it wasn't legitimate, but I think you might be misinterpreting his look. While I'm sure there was some anger/resentment there, the fact is that there isn't a husband alive who hasn't felt resentful of the inconvenient female reproductive cycle and all of its attendant problems. That being said, how involved is he with your female issues? Nothing beyond buying you an emergency box of tampons? Or does he go to your OB-GYN visits with you? That could be part of the issue. Some men are just too uncomfortable knowing to much of what goes on "down there" -- which is stupid, but culturally accurate.

Sorry you felt gross/embarrassed about it, but if it was gross and embarrassing for you, it likely made him feel a little squiky as well. That being said, he asked for a compelling reason why you wouldn't, you gave him one. That doesn't mean that his feelings about the subject were going to go away, or the sex buzz he was feeling . . . it just meant that Nature was getting in the way once again. The fact is, if you had spoken with him at length you probably would have discovered that while he was sympathetic about your issue, he was also feeling highly frustrated and unappreciated, and that had more to do with his reaction than your female problems.


So it summed up all of your resentment . . . for you. For him, it was a blanket condemnation on everything he does for you and the kid, ON TOP of being rejected firmly and somewhat rudely for sex. If I were you I would make a point of apologizing for that comment, acknowledging that it was completely inappropriate and entirely out of line, and then . . . stop. Wait. Listen to hear what he has to say in response to that BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING ELSE. Let him react to the issue of your apology before you continue in with the other problems. More than likely he'll be a little unsettled, but he'll grudgingly accept your apology. That little thing alone is worth half a BJ to a dude. OK, maybe a quarter.

THEN, after you have admitted that what you said was not only unfair but untrue, and he has accepted your apology, THEN you discuss how his bailing on the trip made you feel. Tell him that it hurt your feelings that he subverted your plans and that it made you miserable all weekend. Tell him that it hurt your feelings when he got angry over your female problems, something that you couldn't do anything about, and while you admit that you could have -- should have -- handled the situation better, he should have been more sensitive to you.

Tell him that you can appreciate his desire for more intimacy, and more intimacy that you initiate, and that you're willing to work on that . . . but he should acknowledge in turn that his timing was unfortunate and that his reaction, while understandable, was unproductive. And if I were you I would admit that you made the mistake of assuming what he thought and felt instead of asking him point-blank and dealing with the problem.

Don't get into why you never get your way. Don't get into why things always seem to run in his favor (I guarantee he will dispute that they do). Don't get into anything other than this weekend and how it made you both feel. Heck, be daring and ASK HIM how the conversation made him feel -- and then shut up and let him talk until he doesn't have anything else to say.

I'm not saying it will solve the problem. But if you're gonna be pissed at him for being pissed at you for being pissed at him for him wanting sex when you didn't feel well, then you at least owe each other the courtesy of spelling out exactly why you were pissed, instead of all the silent glaring and muttering under your breath.


Heck. Why not wait until the kid is in bed, unexpectedly crack open a bottle of wine, pour two glasses, and drag him out on the back porch for an honest adult discussion? Don't force the issue too soon (while he's at work) else he'll be more irritated with your desire to finish the argument on your terms than he will the actual argument.

Don't make him read the post. TALK TO HIM. Really. Men can talk, when invited, and when they are given permission to do so. But if you don't invite his honest communication, in an environment free from snap judgements and blame, then he's not going to volunteer the information. Dudes generally don't work that way.

PHTlump

You sound like two people who have fallen into the common marital trap of keeping score rather than meeting each others' needs. Truthfully, you each acted badly.

Unless you have sex infrequently (such as Sat morning is the only opportunity and if he misses it, better luck next weekend), he shouldn't have initiated. Or, he should have known that sex was a long shot. And when you turned him down, he should have shrugged it off as being expected.

However, you telling him you hate your life was basically going nuclear. I'm not at all surprised that he blew off your trip after that. There's no way in hell I'm taking my wife anywhere after a statement like that.

You have a choice to make. You can continue to keep score and try to manipulate your husband into behaving better, while he does the same thing, or you can break the cycle and talk it out.

I think you should accept responsibility for your share of the problems at the same time you ask him for what you need. First, you apologize for telling him you hate your life. There's just no excuse for that. Then, you tell your side of why you declined sex. Then, offer some concessions for whatever he's wanting (usually more sex). Only then do you ask for concessions from him.

You can't frame this conversation as, "I only act badly because you force me to." It has to be, "I think I can give you what you want if you just help me out by doing X."

bettertimes

[QUOTE=IanIronwood;434792]I keep hearing "he knew" and "he didn't realize" and "we both know" and "he definitely knew" . . . but I don't hear anything about "We talked about it openly, honestly, and clearly, so that there would be no misinterpretations, no miscommunications, and no need for telepathy."
We both had plans to go... we even talked about where to get the sandwiches/lake pass the night before... and about the time.

[QUOTE=IanIronwood;434792]It sounds to me like you got mad, stomped off, and when you didn't return to even explain yourself to him -- figuring that he should just somehow know what you were feeling and thinking without any actual verbal communication going on -- that you had abandoned not just the argument, but any further interaction with him at all.
I did stomp off. I was embarrassed over the female issue / the angry stare response.. and the feeling of being manipulated... but I am still guilty of overreacting to his response.. then running away... and not coming back (I always come back... jsut not this time... probably why there is still the fight)

He doesn't try to run off very often (once a year... if that) but when he does, I am always the one to try and stop him to talk it out. This is the first time I just let him go without trying to discuss things. I was just so mad. I just had had it. And was sick of being the one to talk it out.

I hear you on how he probably saw sex as the perfect send off to the day... and he was rightfully upset at my untactful dismissal of his needs...and refusal to talk about it... and then I just let him leave... I realize that it is not all him...nor is it all me.... I will just keep replaying your scenario of him in my mind to get his take on this to see how he probably feels (of course I need to hear HIS actual take)

so to everyone... do I call him and talk it over... ask him to come home.. or wait until tonight (after daughter is in bed) to hash this out....I think I will text or call him and see what he is doing..

I am feeling a little less pissed, a little less manipulated, and much more responsible for my parts in the whole disaster.