Is Sex The "Bottom Line"? - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #16 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 12:20 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

I was in a 100% sexless marriage for about 5 years before I divorced. I kept telling myself it's just sex, I don't need it. I finally got fed up and wanted sex. But what I really wanted was someone who desired me enough to want to have sex with me. Now that I'm in a relationship where we both can't wait to take each other's clothes off and do whatever to please the other person, I couldn't imagine going back to a sexless relationship.
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post #17 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 12:30 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

It is a variable equation.

In a marriage, it remains variable until it becomes a vanishing integer. Once it reaches that Nadir, the marriage does a Super Nova.

Gone in a Flash.....

Oh, the exit-big-bang matter and remnants remain, but the spark is gone and so are its participants, sooner or later.

Answer: "some" better be "some" or "some" will get it elsewhere.

Two extremely LD partners are not the usual mix. One will rise to the occasion while the other slinks under the guise of excuse.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #18 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 01:26 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

I'd say generosity and lack thereof is a much bigger issue in relationships than any particular individual need.

It never ceases to amaze me when I see people n committed relationships putting in great effort to justify NOT meeting their partner's needs. My wife has numerous needs that are not really on my radar. I do my best to meet these. They are generally not excruciatingly painful for me, I am happy to be generous in my actions. Even though she suffers depression, she makes an effort to meet my needs when she is well enough to do so. I'll never understand why people enter long-term relationships and then become stingy with their affection/kindness/attention/whatever. If you want to be selfish, why not stay by yourself?

If one has an aversion to sex, so be it. Don't get involved with someone who wants sex. How hard is that? You are not required to do anything to increase your sex drive if you don't want to. By the same token, you must accept that if you do not see low sex drive as something you want to increase, you are limiting the suitable partners you can find. You are not bad, shallow, selfish, etc if you are happy without sex. Someone else is none of those things if he/she is happy only with sex. The point at which someone has done someone wrong is when they pretend to be someone they are not in order to advance a fundamentally flawed relationship. If you don't like sex, don't screw someone night and day only to close up shop once the commitment is made. This applies not only to sex, but just about any need your partner may have.

Why exactly does this come up around sex so specifically? Why do some people have so much difficulty engaging in sex with the person they claim to love, simply because they don't "desire" it? This presumes that LD does not equal physical pain or mental trauma that makes sex a horrific experience. I read LD to simply mean ambivalence toward sex. Why is it so objectionable to have sex with someone you love? I have had sex with my wife plenty of times when I was tired, stressed out and would rather have gone to bed. It wasn't exactly fireworks for me, but it wasn't water boarding either. If she is in the mood and I am simply dog tired, I'll give her oral sex. She goes to bed with a smile on her face and I'm happy for it. Sometimes the roles are reversed. Neither of us finds it particularly oppressive or unjust.

Why does a partner's need for sex (which in most cases was well known early in the relationship) seem to trigger such anxiety, resentment and even righteous indignation for some people?
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post #19 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 01:30 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

The common theme in all these conversations isn't some 'gap' in lust.

Lust itself is a very variable thing for almost anyone.

The common theme is a lack of lust combined with a lack of generosity.

This is why - I wouldn't ever get/stay involved with someone who won't do oral.

And of course generosity is fully applicable to the HD partner. There's a generous way to deal with a raw desire gap. And a not so generous way.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
We talk about sex every day. It's the END all, to BE all, for some.

And for others, they couldn't care less.

We see it in magazines. Online articles. Scholarly essays and news reports. Women's orgasms aren't "necessary" for procreation. Men's orgasm's aren't "necessary" OUTSIDE of procreation.

We hunt it down. We seek it. And if we don't get it (from someone else), we're "grumpy" and/or "irritable".

We marry because we have this belief that we'll have wedded conjugal bliss (on OUR terms, of course) well into our 90's. And if we don't "get it" 4-6 times a week, or 3 times a day, we'll become "unhappy", especially with our "selfish" partner.

We marry to get it. We divorce because of the lack or TOO MUCH of it. We even DEMAND it, because we EXPECT it. We're entitled to it because of it's "biological" nature or simply because of our gender.

Some of us want it because we believe that it's the ULTIMATE expression of our "love" for our partner. Yet, that same person may have NO PROBLEM having sex with people BEFORE his/her partner with NO "feelings" attached.

Some of us see it as "bonding". You know...becoming "one" and all that...Others will see it as merely a physical way of 'releasing' built up sexual tension.

It's the "E-ticket" ride in an amusement park. A 'ride' that we want to jump on over and over again. Or, it's the 'hell' that some people feel. And from the ultra-feminist point of view, it's a symbol of man's domination over women.

Regardless of our attitudes toward it, it seems to be that sex is "It". Forget about the rest of the "relationship." Forget about "until death do us part"...forget about "love", too!

The reason why I'm saying all of this, is because I've been sex-less for the past 8 months or so. And, I'm HAPPY! I don't "need" sex in order to be HAPPY. Yet, it seems that so many others put so much weight on sex for their happiness.

Now, don't get me wrong. I've been VERY HD in some of my relationships. But the point is, that I'm not UN happy if I'm not in a relationship getting laid however many times a day. I've also been in relationship where the frequency of sex was very low...

But...

...that didn't make me UN happy!

So tell me...is it REALLY the end all to BE all? And if so,

WHY??????


'
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post #20 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 01:46 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

QFT

And FWIW we cross posted. I wrote mine before seeing yours.

That said - the other common theme in sexually compromised relationships is the lack of honesty.

There's a lot of lying and a lot of ego protecting avoidance of the truth.



Quote:
Originally Posted by zookeeper View Post
I'd say generosity and lack thereof is a much bigger issue in relationships than any particular individual need.

It never ceases to amaze me when I see people n committed relationships putting in great effort to justify NOT meeting their partner's needs. My wife has numerous needs that are not really on my radar. I do my best to meet these. They are generally not excruciatingly painful for me, I am happy to be generous in my actions. Even though she suffers depression, she makes an effort to meet my needs when she is well enough to do so. I'll never understand why people enter long-term relationships and then become stingy with their affection/kindness/attention/whatever. If you want to be selfish, why not stay by yourself?

If one has an aversion to sex, so be it. Don't get involved with someone who wants sex. How hard is that? You are not required to do anything to increase your sex drive if you don't want to. By the same token, you must accept that if you do not see low sex drive as something you want to increase, you are limiting the suitable partners you can find. You are not bad, shallow, selfish, etc if you are happy without sex. Someone else is none of those things if he/she is happy only with sex. The point at which someone has done someone wrong is when they pretend to be someone they are not in order to advance a fundamentally flawed relationship. If you don't like sex, don't screw someone night and day only to close up shop once the commitment is made. This applies not only to sex, but just about any need your partner may have.

Why exactly does this come up around sex so specifically? Why do some people have so much difficulty engaging in sex with the person they claim to love, simply because they don't "desire" it? This presumes that LD does not equal physical pain or mental trauma that makes sex a horrific experience. I read LD to simply mean ambivalence toward sex. Why is it so objectionable to have sex with someone you love? I have had sex with my wife plenty of times when I was tired, stressed out and would rather have gone to bed. It wasn't exactly fireworks for me, but it wasn't water boarding either. If she is in the mood and I am simply dog tired, I'll give her oral sex. She goes to bed with a smile on her face and I'm happy for it. Sometimes the roles are reversed. Neither of us finds it particularly oppressive or unjust.

Why does a partner's need for sex (which in most cases was well known early in the relationship) seem to trigger such anxiety, resentment and even righteous indignation for some people?
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post #21 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by badsanta View Post
I'm reading a book called the "Passionate Marriage" and there is a transitional point on sexual maturity that comes with our later years in life. While not stated in the book, it gets at this:

At a young age, sex is 99% hormones and friction.

In our 30s sex is 50% emotions and 50% friction.

In our 50s sex is 80% emotions and 20% friction.

In our 60s we reach our full sexual potential and can have extraordinarily awesome sex for the purpose of emotional bonding. Many do not reach this potential because the lack personal development emotionally and have fears, shame, or do not want to be vulnerable.

I think two problems occur for men. 1) when physical stimulation starts to wane, men struggle to accept their maturity and try to do what ever it takes to prove they are still young. 2) There are inherent problems in the relationship and sex is seen as the primary solution to fix those problems (ignoring emotions and trying to focus on physical rewards). In BOTH these situations, if things stay that way for too many years, sex will turn ugly and toxic unless personal growth occurs.

As for women @Vega what would you see as the primary obstacles that prevents women from maturing and wanting to form a close emotional/pleasurable bond with a spouse fro the long term (aside from the results of the above of a husband being immature for too many years)?

Badsanta
I like your post Badsanta, except for this part:

Quote:
As for women @Vega what would you see as the primary obstacles that prevents women from maturing and wanting to form a close emotional/pleasurable bond with a spouse fro the long term (aside from the results of the above of a husband being immature for too many years)?
I don't think sex has anything to do with "maturing" or forming a close emotional/"pleasurable" bond with someone. In fact, it seems more like THE obstacle that needs to be overcome in order to be mature!
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post #22 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP View Post
Sex is like sugar. You can live without it, but life is simply more enjoyable WITH sugar.

It's Tuesday and I want some SUGAR !
I'm not so sure about that. I haven't had any 'sugar' since October, and I'm enjoying the heck out of my life!

And I KNOW I'm not the only one who feels that way!
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post #23 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgegene View Post
if the husband and wife do not have regular sex, the marriage is greatly diminished.
of course there are valid exceptions to this when there are age, or medical reasons, but the marriage will still be diminished.
WHY is the marriage greatly 'diminished'? Why can't the couple be fulfilled with variable sex?
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post #24 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 02:41 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
WHY is the marriage greatly 'diminished'? Why can't the couple be fulfilled with variable sex?
They can be, but it becomes increasingly difficult the further apart their drives and desires become. It really is no different than any other shared experience, or intimacy builder such as holding hands, kissing, listening, supporting, acts of service, all those things...the further apart the partners become, the more difficult it is to maintain the marriage.

"Let's never stop having sex. We're so good at it, we OWE it to sex to never stop having it."
-My wife
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post #25 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by samyeagar View Post
Sex is what sets a marriage apart from every other relationship such as friends, room mates, parent/child, etc...
You're right. We don't have sex as 'friends', room mates, parent/child, etc.

But we DO have a TON of sex outside of marriage via casual sex, friends with benefits, one night stands, living together, affairs, etc.

I could see your point IF we never had sex at any other time BESIDES marriage. But because the majority of adults DO have sex OUTSIDE of marriage, well...
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post #26 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 02:47 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by badsanta View Post
In our 30s sex is 50% emotions and 50% friction.
60s are the new 30s.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #27 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 02:56 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
But the point is, that I'm not UN happy if I'm not in a relationship getting laid however many times a day. I've also been in relationship where the frequency of sex was very low...

But...

...that didn't make me UN happy!
If I'm not in or seeking a relationship, I can also be happy even if I'm not getting laid.

However, if I'm in a supposedly loving and romantically based relationship, I am very unhappy if the frequency and quality of sex isn't sufficient. I would be better off dating and seeking a good relationship with good sex - at least then there is the hope and prospect of sex.

I was in a long-term marriage with little to no sex. I was happy in all respects - except with the relationship. So, I ended it, and was immediately happier. Then I started dating again and having sex, and was even happier. Sex for me is a wonderful part of life, and especially so as part of a great relationship. For us, sex is the binding and bonding agent - without it, we may as well be friends and live apart. It's importance may be lesser or greater for other people, but that's how it is for us.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #28 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 03:01 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

It really seems that possibly the biggest difference between some people is what their fundamental view of sex is...is it part and parcel with other relationshippy things such as talking, spending time together, shared activities, non sexual touch, sharing joys and pains, or is set apart in it's own little exclusive box.

For me, sex is part of the entire relationship package with all those other things I listed above. If any one of them are missing, I am not as happy or satisfied with the relationship.

"Let's never stop having sex. We're so good at it, we OWE it to sex to never stop having it."
-My wife
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post #29 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 03:03 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
I'm not so sure about that. I haven't had any 'sugar' since October, and I'm enjoying the heck out of my life!

And I KNOW I'm not the only one who feels that way!
how does your spouse feel?

or does that matter?
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post #30 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 03:05 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
You're right. We don't have sex as 'friends', room mates, parent/child, etc.

But we DO have a TON of sex outside of marriage via casual sex, friends with benefits, one night stands, living together, affairs, etc.

I could see your point IF we never had sex at any other time BESIDES marriage. But because the majority of adults DO have sex OUTSIDE of marriage, well...
no once they're married they don't.

are you cool with your spouse having a FWB if you're not interested in sex?
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