Is Sex The "Bottom Line"? - Page 7 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #91 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 06:40 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
We talk about sex every day. It's the END all, to BE all, for some.

And for others, they couldn't care less.

We see it in magazines. Online articles. Scholarly essays and news reports. Women's orgasms aren't "necessary" for procreation. Men's orgasm's aren't "necessary" OUTSIDE of procreation.

We hunt it down. We seek it. And if we don't get it (from someone else), we're "grumpy" and/or "irritable".

We marry because we have this belief that we'll have wedded conjugal bliss (on OUR terms, of course) well into our 90's. And if we don't "get it" 4-6 times a week, or 3 times a day, we'll become "unhappy", especially with our "selfish" partner.

We marry to get it. We divorce because of the lack or TOO MUCH of it. We even DEMAND it, because we EXPECT it. We're entitled to it because of it's "biological" nature or simply because of our gender.

Some of us want it because we believe that it's the ULTIMATE expression of our "love" for our partner. Yet, that same person may have NO PROBLEM having sex with people BEFORE his/her partner with NO "feelings" attached.

Some of us see it as "bonding". You know...becoming "one" and all that...Others will see it as merely a physical way of 'releasing' built up sexual tension.

It's the "E-ticket" ride in an amusement park. A 'ride' that we want to jump on over and over again. Or, it's the 'hell' that some people feel. And from the ultra-feminist point of view, it's a symbol of man's domination over women.

Regardless of our attitudes toward it, it seems to be that sex is "It". Forget about the rest of the "relationship." Forget about "until death do us part"...forget about "love", too!

The reason why I'm saying all of this, is because I've been sex-less for the past 8 months or so. And, I'm HAPPY! I don't "need" sex in order to be HAPPY. Yet, it seems that so many others put so much weight on sex for their happiness.

Now, don't get me wrong. I've been VERY HD in some of my relationships. But the point is, that I'm not UN happy if I'm not in a relationship getting laid however many times a day. I've also been in relationship where the frequency of sex was very low...

But...

...that didn't make me UN happy!

So tell me...is it REALLY the end all to BE all? And if so,

WHY??????


'
I think it comes down to biology. In my younger days, my drive was strong, almost frantic. Of course, I wanted feelings to go along with it, but I was unhappy when I wasn't in a relationship, not just for lack of sex, but for lack of affection as well. And when I WAS in a relationship, the sex was often and very passionate.

Now that I am engaged and we are both in our 60's, sex is on our "nice to have" list. Yes, we enjoy intimacy on a regular basis, but it is not the focus of our relationship. And we are both extremely happy. The focus of our relationship is affection and companionship. Although we don't have sex every time we get together, there is always plenty of hugging, kissing, hand holding, cuddling, sweet talk and pet names.

Since sex is a function of pro-creation, I am not at all surprised that at my age, our relationship is less sexual. I am well past my child bearing years. When we are intimate, it is more about comfort and affection than raging hormones screaming to be released.

So while I do think it is normal for raging sex drives to mellow out over the years, I think the need for non-sexual affectionate touch last for a lifetime. Even intensifies as we get older. I remember when I would visit my late mother in her elder care facilities, all the other residents seemed to want nothing more than a hand to hold.
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post #92 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 06:50 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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X and Y would be silly. I was simply told sex is a priority to her and not to be used as a bargaining chip. She is older than I am and was way more experience (and I guess she burned at least once). We had only been "romantic" for 6 months when we got engaged. Her talk resonated.
Yeah, agreeing to a number would be silly. I am just saying I don't think someone is going to say "Sex won't be a priority later in our marriage" because that will open up a whole slew of issues.
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post #93 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 07:02 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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A "gift" that's expected from me seems more like an obligation than anything else.
Vega, is sex something that you can live with or without, or do have an actual aversion to it ?
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post #94 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 07:19 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
I really enjoyed your entire post, Personal. But when I read it, I noticed that whenever you mentioned the word "sex", I always thought to myself, "Sex...but how MUCH?"

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against sex in marriage or a relationship. But the "experts" seemed to have informed us that if we have sex less than 10 times a year, we're in a "sexless" relationship.

I can't wrap my head around that. If you're having sex 10 times a year, you're still having sex; so to me, it can't be "sexless". And of course, the LD person is deemed to be "dysfunctional".

Meanwhile, there doesn't seem to be a limit at the opposite end of the spectrum. We can have too little, but not too much? I mean, at what point does it become "too much"? Does it EVER become "too much"?

And I think that may be part of the problem with an LD. No matter how much sex you give the HD, they always seem to want MORE.

Is there a point where the HD says, "Enough!"?
Odds are, yes the HD would overindulge beyond his/her ability to enjoy it for at least a certain period of time. During this time the HD would likely appear insatiable. Then it would eventually slow down and resemble something normal:

Very HD = once a day
HD = once every three days
Mild HD = once a week
Mild LD = Less than once a week
LD = Once a month
Very LD = Less than once a month

If you are not in a relationship and are making some serious life decisions about beginning all over again, but you know you would rather be alone than subjected to a somewhat abusive HD's insatiable drive, you are not wrong to feel that way.

In my opinion @Vega I DO think you should pursue a new relationship, but be VERY UPFRONT about the following before getting too involved:

• you will NOT tolerate a partner that gets upset when you need to refuse sex because your previous partner would be abusive regarding this topic.
• state what frequency is optimal for you to enjoy sex the most (say once a week)
• discuss that other ways to enjoy each other's desire other than mandatory sex is something you would enjoy learning how to experience.

ANY MAN (even HD) unwilling to work with you on those terms to proceed into a long term loving relationship would NOT be worth it, and you probably are better off without them.

Sincerely,
Badsanta
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post #95 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 07:20 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by samyeagar View Post
...the marital relationship is at it's core, a sexual relationship. Sex is what sets a marriage apart from every other relationship such as friends, room mates, parent/child, etc...
Yeah, this.

I've had, and have, many friends in my life, both male and female, in which every "need" has been met, apart from sex. There's nothing I can't get from (or give to) a friend or family member, that I can't get or give to my wife.

These individual needs may be broken up amongst more than one person, but they're there.

That's not to diminish one's marriage, but it's the truth. What genuinely sets apart a romantic relationship from a platonic one is sex, and that extra level of emotional and physical closeness.

Without that, a marriage is at the same level as your closest friends - which is absolutely fine, if that is what both partners agree upon, or want. But as others have said, it's more often only one partner that feels that way.
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post #96 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 07:40 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
A "gift" that's expected from me seems more like an obligation than anything else.
Something is only an obligation if you make it one.

Often, something becomes an obligation because there is a negative thought, or thoughts, associated with it. Therefore, it's on you, and only you.

My wife will not give standalone BJ's for this reason. She's not obligated to in the slightest by me, though she knows my desire for them. Yet she happily, and lustfully, gives them as foreplay, or to finish. She's not adverse to the act itself AT ALL - only the context in which the act is performed.

She's formed a negative connotation of this act when done on it's own, and only then, likely due to previous experiences that have nothing to do with me.

She's entitled, and although I don't like it, it's not a deal breaker for me. It most definitely would be if this was sex we were talking about, though, and not simply a sex act.

If someone thinks sex, in general, is some sort of obligation OR if someone MAKES sex an obligation, there's a major issue there, and one that needs to be dealt with and fixed.

@Vega , I think I'm somewhat familiar with your late ex husbands treatment of you, and I can understand why you have this negative view of sex, especially as far as it being an obligation. However, somebody here on TAM used this line in a thread a few weeks ago, and it stuck with me:

"Don't make somebody pay someone else's bill."

I used that quote with my wife not that long ago, and she understood and agreed. I didn't use it in any particular context or for a specific reason, just as a generality. But it rings true in almost all situations and scenarios.

I truly hope that if and when you meet somebody you want to be with, you don't make them pay off your late ex husbands debts, and that you can start fresh with them. Learning from our past mistakes does not mean putting up walls and barricades at every turn, making our new partners navigate an un-ending maze of twists and turns, all to keep them from arriving at the ultimate destination.
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post #97 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 07:44 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Vega, you'll be fine! Lots of guys have the same views of sex you do. Some probably want it even less than you, and you'll find yourself wanting to convince him that sex is actually pretty cool.
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post #98 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 07:46 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
I really enjoyed your entire post, Personal. But when I read it, I noticed that whenever you mentioned the word "sex", I always thought to myself, "Sex...but how MUCH?"

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against sex in marriage or a relationship. But the "experts" seemed to have informed us that if we have sex less than 10 times a year, we're in a "sexless" relationship.

I can't wrap my head around that. If you're having sex 10 times a year, you're still having sex; so to me, it can't be "sexless". And of course, the LD person is deemed to be "dysfunctional".

Meanwhile, there doesn't seem to be a limit at the opposite end of the spectrum. We can have too little, but not too much? I mean, at what point does it become "too much"? Does it EVER become "too much"?

And I think that may be part of the problem with an LD. No matter how much sex you give the HD, they always seem to want MORE.

Is there a point where the HD says, "Enough!"?
But you see, when the LD has sex with the HD more than the HD desires, then the HD becomes the LD, and the LD becomes the HD...it's all relative. There are no absolutes. It is actually quite normal, and dare I say most couple who have been together for any length of time will experience this, but it is normal for the HD/LD attribute to switch between partners where one is the HD for a while, then it switches for a while, and so on and so forth, because again...it's all relative.

The clinical definition of sexless is simply that...an arbitrary definition used as a baseline for a discussion, often with a therapist to start from. It has no absolute meaning to the people involved, especially if the couple is fine with it.

"Let's never stop having sex. We're so good at it, we OWE it to sex to never stop having it."
-My wife
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post #99 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 07:55 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Vega, you'll be fine! Lots of guys have the same views of sex you do. Some probably want it even less than you, and you'll find yourself wanting to convince him that sex is actually pretty cool.
You seem happy, Vega. I am sure you will be just fine, too.

My sister got divorced 3 years ago after 37 years of marriage. She is loving it!

She moved to a warm place, something her husband would never agree to. She loves her job, her new church, and having her grandchildren come visit. The only thing left is for her daughter and her husband and those grandchildren to move in next door! And she is working on that!

The divorce came as a surprise (her husband reconnected with a high school girlfriend on Facebook), but it has been a true gift to her. She would not have had the confidence to get there on her own.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #100 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 08:00 AM
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Re: AIs Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Alexm, you have to put up some walls and barricades, or you just wind up in the same place over and over again.

People will treat you like **** if you let them. People who will treat you like **** are always looking for some new sucker to push around, so you need something to keep them out.
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post #101 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 08:04 AM
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Re: AIs Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by wild jade View Post
Alexm, you have to put up some walls and barricades, or you just wind up in the same place over and over again.

People will treat you like **** if you let them. People who will treat you like **** are always looking for some new sucker to push around, so you need something to keep them out.
I agree!

Just being yourself is best. That will draw the people you are naturally compatible with, and protect you against others. It is nature's timesaver.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #102 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 08:33 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
I really enjoyed your entire post, Personal. But when I read it, I noticed that whenever you mentioned the word "sex", I always thought to myself, "Sex...but how MUCH?"

...

Meanwhile, there doesn't seem to be a limit at the opposite end of the spectrum. We can have too little, but not too much? I mean, at what point does it become "too much"? Does it EVER become "too much"?

And I think that may be part of the problem with an LD. No matter how much sex you give the HD, they always seem to want MORE.

Is there a point where the HD says, "Enough!"?
Of course there is "enough," unless there is an actual disorder involved! There are physical limits, for a start.

I think you believe HDs always want MORE, because your limits are much lower than theirs - but they do have limits.

Sure, I can - and have - had sex 8 times in one day, or 11 times in 36 hours, or even 4 times in 4 hours (aren't weekends and vacations great?!), but it's certainly not sustainable, and it wouldn't be enjoyable to keep trying to do that. As a very occasional thing to push limits, yeah, it can be fun as long as your partner is passionately onboard. (Mine is!)

In our 40s with a new relationship, 2 or 3 times a day was normal, and continued at that level for almost 5 years. The next 5 years was more like twice a day. And the last 6 years in our 50s/early 60s have been more like 10 times a week, give or take a few depending on what else is going on. This is what we BOTH enjoy, and we are always happy (with occasional exceptions when we do say No) to go along if the other initiates, since we both can't be or aren't always "on" all the time or at the same time.

As for what's enough? It has varied with time, but for us, it's normally once or twice a day, and if necessary we could be content with 3 to 5 times a week given our current health and life's demands. In that case, we'd probably keep looking for ways to increase to what feels "right" for us, though.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #103 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 08:33 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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I'm not so sure about that. I haven't had any 'sugar' since October, and I'm enjoying the heck out of my life!

And I KNOW I'm not the only one who feels that way!
Sure, but if you had some good sugar for a few days, you'd be hooked again!

If you stop eating sugar for long enough, you don't crave it anymore. I guess that's a good thing.
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post #104 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 09:33 AM
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post #105 of 1358 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 10:22 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Ellis,

You bet they won't because.....

Sex is the one thing that you are promising to only do with them.....

So admitting sex won't be a priority - is awfully close to acknowledging YOU won't be a priority.




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Yeah, agreeing to a number would be silly. I am just saying I don't think someone is going to say "Sex won't be a priority later in our marriage" because that will open up a whole slew of issues.
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