Is Sex The "Bottom Line"? - Page 91 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #1351 of 1357 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 02:49 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Let's take a look at this.

Here is your post which I commented on:

Quote:
Asking someone to be physically intimate and emotionally deceptive - is beyond messed up.

If I understand what you are telling me, you are saying there IS emotion in casual sex and ONS. You say that the "passion" or horniness that each person feels is the emotion.

I don't know if being horny or randy is an emotion or not. I thought is was your body letting you know you have a physical need? I think now, it is also the brain saying it has a need for some dopamine, glucosamine and chondroitin...........wait, not those last two. You get what I mean, though? I don't remember all of the chemical names released during sex. I do realize some of them are released during ejaculation and right after. I can't speak for women.

My conclusions are tied in with my thoughts above.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
2ntnuf,
I'm not a big fan of casual sex - but - if two people are physically lonely and desire each other - and take precautions not to infect each other with a pathogen - and neither of them makes any promises as to strings attached - that is their business as adults.

Quote:
So, we are acting like that person is the one we want, but in reality, we simply need someone willing or we need masturbation. I think, without the emotional connection of knowing someone and caring for them, we simply have masturbation using another human as a tool. This idea of mine seems to be supported by your comment. Though, I know you didn't mean it that way.
And usually in a ONS - the passion itself is genuine. Unless one of them is visibly MUCH wealthier than the other

Quote:
Agree that no one knows what's in the other's head. The "passion" is simply a feeling or horniness or a need for ejaculation. Without true feelings for that other person, but simply a connection cause she is hot, and we are horny, I'm not so sure that passion is for them. I think we use the word passion for horny. Passion for another is simply that horniness directed at a hot body, or a body we find attractive enough. That seems to relate inversely to the amount of "passion" we feel, to a point which is personal to the individual.
On TAM, there are two things which seem similar - but often aren't.

1. A desire for more frequent sex (this falls into the 'mechanics' of life and therefore subject to compromise between committed partners)
2. A desire for more 'passion' during sex (pure emotion - and not subject to compromise or negotiation)


Quote:
So, a desire for more sex may equal horniness, but horniness usually comes from a need for sex?

A need for sex causes us to be more passionate, which, in this instance, means to me something like an insatiable desire or hunger which turns into physical actions with someone who he highly desires to please and be pleased by sexually?

If a person, a man, is unsatisfied with the level of variety, duration of each session,(edit: add love and respect to the list) or his partner's attitude during sex, he may need it much more often, because he is not getting those brain chemicals which cause him to feel satisfaction for a little while.

Sometimes, there will be less "passion" due to a simple physical need for sex and some chemical release, but not a need for the bonding and satisfaction chemicals, and/or the person he is with is not ideal in some way which could possibly include something he doesn't know exists, like a pheromone?

I see this possibly happening in casual sex and ons as well as marriages.

A partner who is really into you, will accommodate a higher frequency than their ideal provided you don't double down and press them to protect your ego by 'simulating' more passion than they really feel.
A partner who is really into you, in my opinion, will accommodate you more frequently because they are more into you. They will only accommodate you to the limit they feel comfortable with, then the passion will start to dry up.

They will sometimes try to fake the passion, but most men who know their wives, will notice a difference when they were truly into it.

I think there is a finite amount that anyone can expect from a certain person. I think that varies with each of us. I think it varies again with who we are with.

Settling? Yes, we all do it. We cannot have that perfect dream girl or guy within our head. They don't exist. Never did. The person we married? Who we think they are is not necessarily who they are. I'm not saying they are being deceptive. I'm saying we deceive ourselves.

Yes, sometimes they are deceptive. Sometimes.

I think HD and LD are definitions within a specific relationship. I do not believe they are healthy to use as a general term. In some relationships(edit: "other relationships those two individuals have", should replace some relationships), the HD might be the LD or vice versa(Edit: delete the words, "or vice versa", they just confuse). Much of that depends on what I posit above. Make any sense?

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."

Last edited by 2ntnuf; 03-07-2017 at 03:01 PM.
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post #1352 of 1357 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 03:59 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Kind of weird.

This thread.
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post #1353 of 1357 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 04:41 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
Compatibility rules. Why I believe that love without compatibility often = intense unhappiness for at least one person.

It takes a very determined person to do what Farsidejunky has - which is some version of this:

We can have a SYMETRICALLY intense, modest or minimal connection. And you can choose whichever of those you wish.
I agree about compatibility. That is why I wrote to @Vega recently that the way to make both LD and HD happy is for them to separate and find new partners.

I understand exactly what @farsidejunky did. I did the same. Decided that instead of trying to maximize what I got out of the relationship, I would focus on making it even. H2 gets no more than I get. For a long while she gave little so she got little. She did not like getting at the low level. Eventually she she upped her game. Mostly by way of being pleasant and affectionate instead of condescending and cold. But she would provide more sex if I were interested.

The advice to the typical HD is actually quite easy to say. Disengage. If the LD does not come chasing to get you back, you lost nothing and should leave. Just hard to convince the typical HD to take this advice. So easy to think "if I am getting so little while chasing them, how can I get more by walking away and giving less?" But that is how it works. And they don't want to leave. They don't want AN answer. They want THE answer they want. More frequent and more passionate sex with their current partner.

My case is very typical. H2 really did not come around until she got cancer and I stayed with her. I don't think there was anything I could have done with young and healthy H2 to get her to rethink her behavior. My only choices at that point were to accept sexlessness or leave. Now that she sees I really am am determined to stay "no matter what", and she believes that she brings less to the table than she used to, she values me in ways that she did not before. It was a long road and I made some decisions that made it worse. But honestly I don't think there was much I could have done to make it better. Except leave.

Because you are correct. Compatibility is HUGE.

When you can see it coming, duck!

Last edited by Holdingontoit; 03-07-2017 at 05:19 PM.
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post #1354 of 1357 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 04:54 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
We talk about sex every day.......
.....So tell me...is it REALLY the end all to BE all? And if so,

WHY??????


'
The less sex you get, the more it occupies your mind, the more you want it! Hence a lot of people talking (or complaining) about not getting enough or kinkier sex that they crave.
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post #1355 of 1357 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 07:53 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

2ntnuf,

This is really good. I never really thought about - hunger - as an emotion. Even though it can be purely driven by the mechanics of life - it can also be more than just a matter of 'hunger avoidance'. I cooked Beef Bourguignon tonight. I like cooking that - it's easy - smells delicious - and tastes great. So in a limited way the anticipation makes me happy.

So - just thinking out loud here but - if I'm going for a ONS - I'm almost solely focused on the physicality of it.

And maybe the woman I want to sleep with is also.

So if we are both looking for a mainly physical connection - and let's say I'm traveling and rarely come to this location and I have already been clear on that point. Why is that inherently deceptive?

I'm not saying I like the idea of a ONS - I'm just asking why it's an example of deception.

-------
I contrast that with a spouse who pretends to orgasm when they didn't. And my bigger point was - the spouse who pretends to rapture because they know their partner will react very badly if they don't.

Because to me, that's really the pure poison. I'm HD, I'm pushing you to a higher frequency of physical intimacy, while simultaneously pressing you to lie about what the experience feels like for yourself.






Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
Let's take a look at this.

Here is your post which I commented on:




If I understand what you are telling me, you are saying there IS emotion in casual sex and ONS. You say that the "passion" or horniness that each person feels is the emotion.

I don't know if being horny or randy is an emotion or not. I thought is was your body letting you know you have a physical need? I think now, it is also the brain saying it has a need for some dopamine, glucosamine and chondroitin...........wait, not those last two. You get what I mean, though? I don't remember all of the chemical names released during sex. I do realize some of them are released during ejaculation and right after. I can't speak for women.

My conclusions are tied in with my thoughts above.








A partner who is really into you, in my opinion, will accommodate you more frequently because they are more into you. They will only accommodate you to the limit they feel comfortable with, then the passion will start to dry up.

They will sometimes try to fake the passion, but most men who know their wives, will notice a difference when they were truly into it.

I think there is a finite amount that anyone can expect from a certain person. I think that varies with each of us. I think it varies again with who we are with.

Settling? Yes, we all do it. We cannot have that perfect dream girl or guy within our head. They don't exist. Never did. The person we married? Who we think they are is not necessarily who they are. I'm not saying they are being deceptive. I'm saying we deceive ourselves.

Yes, sometimes they are deceptive. Sometimes.

I think HD and LD are definitions within a specific relationship. I do not believe they are healthy to use as a general term. In some relationships(edit: "other relationships those two individuals have", should replace some relationships), the HD might be the LD or vice versa(Edit: delete the words, "or vice versa", they just confuse). Much of that depends on what I posit above. Make any sense?
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post #1356 of 1357 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 08:03 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

2nt,
As far as frequency compromise goes - that seems right to me. A partner who is into you - wants to please you and will flex on frequency.

But if you want it straight you have to actually encourage transparency in a way that doesn't come natural to most folks.

For us that means something sort of like this:

- I'm gonna make the experience as good as possible for you - and whatever happens - happens. And that's ok.
- If we are at a frequency that isn't working very well for you - I want - I need - to know that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
Let's take a look at this.

Here is your post which I commented on:




If I understand what you are telling me, you are saying there IS emotion in casual sex and ONS. You say that the "passion" or horniness that each person feels is the emotion.

I don't know if being horny or randy is an emotion or not. I thought is was your body letting you know you have a physical need? I think now, it is also the brain saying it has a need for some dopamine, glucosamine and chondroitin...........wait, not those last two. You get what I mean, though? I don't remember all of the chemical names released during sex. I do realize some of them are released during ejaculation and right after. I can't speak for women.

My conclusions are tied in with my thoughts above.








A partner who is really into you, in my opinion, will accommodate you more frequently because they are more into you. They will only accommodate you to the limit they feel comfortable with, then the passion will start to dry up.

They will sometimes try to fake the passion, but most men who know their wives, will notice a difference when they were truly into it.

I think there is a finite amount that anyone can expect from a certain person. I think that varies with each of us. I think it varies again with who we are with.

Settling? Yes, we all do it. We cannot have that perfect dream girl or guy within our head. They don't exist. Never did. The person we married? Who we think they are is not necessarily who they are. I'm not saying they are being deceptive. I'm saying we deceive ourselves.

Yes, sometimes they are deceptive. Sometimes.

I think HD and LD are definitions within a specific relationship. I do not believe they are healthy to use as a general term. In some relationships(edit: "other relationships those two individuals have", should replace some relationships), the HD might be the LD or vice versa(Edit: delete the words, "or vice versa", they just confuse). Much of that depends on what I posit above. Make any sense?
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post #1357 of 1357 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 08:15 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Key for the HD: you have to really want the real truth. You have to be willing to say "thank you for sharing" - and mean it - even when they say something that cuts you to the core. If you don't want the real truth, if you only want the fantasy you wish were true, then you may get what you asked for - but it will not be satisfying.

Took my wife a couple of years to realize I was being honest when I said "thank you" after she told me something about me or our marriage that made her unhappy. For a long time she figured I was being patronizing and she disliked my thanking her for sharing unpleasant truths. Most people don't actually want to hear them, so she couldn't believe I did.

And remember, none of that cured our mismatch. Eventually I accepted the honest truth - which was that my wife had no intention of satisfying my need for sex no matter how unhappy I was when it went unsatisfied. The truth does not always or even mostly result in more sex. It simply results in both sides knowing the truth. Then each has to decide what to do about it.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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