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Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

97K views 1K replies 92 participants last post by  Rocky Mountain Yeti 
#1 ·
We talk about sex every day. It's the END all, to BE all, for some.

And for others, they couldn't care less.

We see it in magazines. Online articles. Scholarly essays and news reports. Women's orgasms aren't "necessary" for procreation. Men's orgasm's aren't "necessary" OUTSIDE of procreation.

We hunt it down. We seek it. And if we don't get it (from someone else), we're "grumpy" and/or "irritable".

We marry because we have this belief that we'll have wedded conjugal bliss (on OUR terms, of course) well into our 90's. And if we don't "get it" 4-6 times a week, or 3 times a day, we'll become "unhappy", especially with our "selfish" partner.

We marry to get it. We divorce because of the lack or TOO MUCH of it. We even DEMAND it, because we EXPECT it. We're entitled to it because of it's "biological" nature or simply because of our gender.

Some of us want it because we believe that it's the ULTIMATE expression of our "love" for our partner. Yet, that same person may have NO PROBLEM having sex with people BEFORE his/her partner with NO "feelings" attached.

Some of us see it as "bonding". You know...becoming "one" and all that...Others will see it as merely a physical way of 'releasing' built up sexual tension.

It's the "E-ticket" ride in an amusement park. A 'ride' that we want to jump on over and over again. Or, it's the 'hell' that some people feel. And from the ultra-feminist point of view, it's a symbol of man's domination over women.

Regardless of our attitudes toward it, it seems to be that sex is "It". Forget about the rest of the "relationship." Forget about "until death do us part"...forget about "love", too!

The reason why I'm saying all of this, is because I've been sex-less for the past 8 months or so. And, I'm HAPPY! I don't "need" sex in order to be HAPPY. Yet, it seems that so many others put so much weight on sex for their happiness.

Now, don't get me wrong. I've been VERY HD in some of my relationships. But the point is, that I'm not UN happy if I'm not in a relationship getting laid however many times a day. I've also been in relationship where the frequency of sex was very low...

But...

...that didn't make me UN happy!

So tell me...is it REALLY the end all to BE all? And if so,

WHY??????


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#2 ·
I'm reading a book called the "Passionate Marriage" and there is a transitional point on sexual maturity that comes with our later years in life. While not stated in the book, it gets at this:

At a young age, sex is 99% hormones and friction.

In our 30s sex is 50% emotions and 50% friction.

In our 50s sex is 80% emotions and 20% friction.

In our 60s we reach our full sexual potential and can have extraordinarily awesome sex for the purpose of emotional bonding. Many do not reach this potential because the lack personal development emotionally and have fears, shame, or do not want to be vulnerable.

I think two problems occur for men. 1) when physical stimulation starts to wane, men struggle to accept their maturity and try to do what ever it takes to prove they are still young. 2) There are inherent problems in the relationship and sex is seen as the primary solution to fix those problems (ignoring emotions and trying to focus on physical rewards). In BOTH these situations, if things stay that way for too many years, sex will turn ugly and toxic unless personal growth occurs.

As for women @Vega what would you see as the primary obstacles that prevents women from maturing and wanting to form a close emotional/pleasurable bond with a spouse fro the long term (aside from the results of the above of a husband being immature for too many years)?

Badsanta
 
#21 ·
I like your post Badsanta, except for this part:

As for women @Vega what would you see as the primary obstacles that prevents women from maturing and wanting to form a close emotional/pleasurable bond with a spouse fro the long term (aside from the results of the above of a husband being immature for too many years)?
I don't think sex has anything to do with "maturing" or forming a close emotional/"pleasurable" bond with someone. In fact, it seems more like THE obstacle that needs to be overcome in order to be mature!
 
#7 ·
sex is way exaggerated in our culture i think.

i know there are lots of people who need lots of sex, or at least think they do. however i can't speak for them.

i was a single bachelor for MANY years and did without sex, and like you, i was pretty darn happy. matter of fact, i was in spite of my current wonderful
marriage, about as happy as i am now, but in a different way.

however, i draw the line at marriage. i am christian, but even if you are not, or irreligious, i think the same principle applies, that sex
is necessary and mandated between husband and wife. if the husband and wife do not have regular sex, the marriage is greatly diminished.
of course there are valid exceptions to this when there are age, or medical reasons, but the marriage will still be diminished.
 
#8 ·
I think the "need" aspect is different for every individual. There are biological, social, personal reasons for why a person is the way they are. There is no better, or worse way about it...just different.

Yes, a sexless relationship can be a marriage, and a sexual relationship does not have to be a marriage. That said...the marital relationship is at it's core, a sexual relationship. Sex is what sets a marriage apart from every other relationship such as friends, room mates, parent/child, etc...
 
#25 ·
Sex is what sets a marriage apart from every other relationship such as friends, room mates, parent/child, etc...
You're right. We don't have sex as 'friends', room mates, parent/child, etc.

But we DO have a TON of sex outside of marriage via casual sex, friends with benefits, one night stands, living together, affairs, etc.

I could see your point IF we never had sex at any other time BESIDES marriage. But because the majority of adults DO have sex OUTSIDE of marriage, well...
 
#9 ·
Being in a sexless marriage, I firmly believe that sex creates bonding that can't be replicated otherwise in a marriage. In our case, I feel that at least some of the issues that I have with my wife could be solved with regular sex - however, she has no interest as sex requires effort, and she's generally lazy (she'd rather sit on her duff than play with the kids or exercise, let alone sex).
 
#10 ·
Frequency is one metric, but I'm not sure I would choose 5 quickies a week vs a nicely planned 2-3 hour Saturday night (good old days)... what matters is not merely the physical act but the meaning - my partner still wants / likes / craves me 😂

If you're married for a couple decades the idea of emotional bonding is strange. If you didn't bond with your wife after a colicky baby or some new adventure or when the kids flee the nest and you walk back to the car from the college dorm, empty nesters now, a BJ is the least of your concerns.
 
#11 · (Edited)
We marry because we have this belief that we'll have wedded conjugal bliss (on OUR terms, of course) well into our 90's. And if we don't "get it" 4-6 times a week, or 3 times a day, we'll become "unhappy", especially with our "selfish" partner.
Yikes, talk about an exaggeration as if this is precisely the expectation of everyone who marries (only one of the two people of course). Then again, fits well with the typical Anti HD / pro LD theme to try and make a point ...

In many cases, marriages don't fail just b/c of sex (or lack of). Sex is usually just a symptom of bigger problems in the marriage (it is easier for some people to just focus on the sex aspects instead of dealing with the larger issues).

Part of the problem, two people get into a relationship and sex is part of that relationship. Now let's say a few years go by and one person decides that sex isn't really that important anymore. How can that not be considered an issue, when one person just completely discounts something that was part of the relationship? Its funny, some of the people who would say "what's the big deal, sex is not that critical" would be the same people crying foul if their SO decided to de-prioritize some other area of the relationship that had been present from the start.
 
#13 ·
Of course for someone who doesn't care about sex, they won't consider it important.

As for me, it is not all there is to marriage. Actually, in my first marriage we had sex a lot more than some of the people here (although less than I would have preferred).

That wasn't the reason I left. Emotional abuse was.
 
#14 ·
Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Vega, if you're happy within and don't need sex, I'm really delighted for you.
Do you have a negative or positive view on sex?
When you look back on your relationships, what benefits did you get from sex?
Or did you see it as a chore, a mandatory thing in order to keep the marriage on a equilibrium?


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk
 
#15 ·
Yes, sex is the end all and be all for me. It does not require a why. I don't have to justify why I desire sex. It is enough that I do.

You are happy without sex. Fine. Works for you. No problem there. You are in a sexless marriage. If you are both fine with that, great. No reason for you to have sex you don't want. No reason a marriage MUST include sex if both spouses are happy without it.

The only problem is when a person who is perfectly happy not having sex (or who actually prefers not having sex) marries a person for whom sex is the be all and end all of marriage. And even that isn't a problem if the they realize it soon enough and end the marriage soon enough so they can both go find more compatible partners. The problem comes when they have been together a long time and the LD gradually consents to less and less sex. Like slowly turning up the heat on the frog in the pot. Then the HD can face some very nasty consequences from exercising their right to exit the marriage and go looking for a more compatible partner. THAT is what leads to most of the angst.
 
#16 ·
I was in a 100% sexless marriage for about 5 years before I divorced. I kept telling myself it's just sex, I don't need it. I finally got fed up and wanted sex. But what I really wanted was someone who desired me enough to want to have sex with me. Now that I'm in a relationship where we both can't wait to take each other's clothes off and do whatever to please the other person, I couldn't imagine going back to a sexless relationship.
 
#17 ·
It is a variable equation.

In a marriage, it remains variable until it becomes a vanishing integer. Once it reaches that Nadir, the marriage does a Super Nova.

Gone in a Flash.....

Oh, the exit-big-bang matter and remnants remain, but the spark is gone and so are its participants, sooner or later.

Answer: "some" better be "some" or "some" will get it elsewhere.

Two extremely LD partners are not the usual mix. One will rise to the occasion while the other slinks under the guise of excuse.
 
#18 ·
I'd say generosity and lack thereof is a much bigger issue in relationships than any particular individual need.

It never ceases to amaze me when I see people n committed relationships putting in great effort to justify NOT meeting their partner's needs. My wife has numerous needs that are not really on my radar. I do my best to meet these. They are generally not excruciatingly painful for me, I am happy to be generous in my actions. Even though she suffers depression, she makes an effort to meet my needs when she is well enough to do so. I'll never understand why people enter long-term relationships and then become stingy with their affection/kindness/attention/whatever. If you want to be selfish, why not stay by yourself?

If one has an aversion to sex, so be it. Don't get involved with someone who wants sex. How hard is that? You are not required to do anything to increase your sex drive if you don't want to. By the same token, you must accept that if you do not see low sex drive as something you want to increase, you are limiting the suitable partners you can find. You are not bad, shallow, selfish, etc if you are happy without sex. Someone else is none of those things if he/she is happy only with sex. The point at which someone has done someone wrong is when they pretend to be someone they are not in order to advance a fundamentally flawed relationship. If you don't like sex, don't screw someone night and day only to close up shop once the commitment is made. This applies not only to sex, but just about any need your partner may have.

Why exactly does this come up around sex so specifically? Why do some people have so much difficulty engaging in sex with the person they claim to love, simply because they don't "desire" it? This presumes that LD does not equal physical pain or mental trauma that makes sex a horrific experience. I read LD to simply mean ambivalence toward sex. Why is it so objectionable to have sex with someone you love? I have had sex with my wife plenty of times when I was tired, stressed out and would rather have gone to bed. It wasn't exactly fireworks for me, but it wasn't water boarding either. If she is in the mood and I am simply dog tired, I'll give her oral sex. She goes to bed with a smile on her face and I'm happy for it. Sometimes the roles are reversed. Neither of us finds it particularly oppressive or unjust.

Why does a partner's need for sex (which in most cases was well known early in the relationship) seem to trigger such anxiety, resentment and even righteous indignation for some people?
 
#19 ·
The common theme in all these conversations isn't some 'gap' in lust.

Lust itself is a very variable thing for almost anyone.

The common theme is a lack of lust combined with a lack of generosity.

This is why - I wouldn't ever get/stay involved with someone who won't do oral.

And of course generosity is fully applicable to the HD partner. There's a generous way to deal with a raw desire gap. And a not so generous way.
 
#27 ·
But the point is, that I'm not UN happy if I'm not in a relationship getting laid however many times a day. I've also been in relationship where the frequency of sex was very low...

But...

...that didn't make me UN happy!
If I'm not in or seeking a relationship, I can also be happy even if I'm not getting laid.

However, if I'm in a supposedly loving and romantically based relationship, I am very unhappy if the frequency and quality of sex isn't sufficient. I would be better off dating and seeking a good relationship with good sex - at least then there is the hope and prospect of sex.

I was in a long-term marriage with little to no sex. I was happy in all respects - except with the relationship. So, I ended it, and was immediately happier. Then I started dating again and having sex, and was even happier. Sex for me is a wonderful part of life, and especially so as part of a great relationship. For us, sex is the binding and bonding agent - without it, we may as well be friends and live apart. It's importance may be lesser or greater for other people, but that's how it is for us.
 
#28 ·
It really seems that possibly the biggest difference between some people is what their fundamental view of sex is...is it part and parcel with other relationshippy things such as talking, spending time together, shared activities, non sexual touch, sharing joys and pains, or is set apart in it's own little exclusive box.

For me, sex is part of the entire relationship package with all those other things I listed above. If any one of them are missing, I am not as happy or satisfied with the relationship.
 
#41 ·
Welcome back @MEM11363! Just when I learned your new numbers, now I still won't remember your real ones.

On topic, my wife admitted menopause zapped her drive. We still had sex, maybe I wanted a bit more but close enough. And it was still good. But the relationship suffered. We both knew it was important to us, but it was work to have sex. Took some time to figure out but not only did it lower her drive, more importantly in changed it and I needed to change my approach. (She needed to learn that when I said sex didn't need to be PiV I meant it, "naked time" works.)
 
#42 ·
Charlie,
That's how two emotionally mature - generous people - deal with a desire mismatch.

They aren't judgemental, or condescending. They are instead compassionate and generous.

Sometimes M2 does this interrogation thing. It's actually simultaneously comical and unnerving. She wants to know why I'm so unperturbed by our desire gap. What she's really doing is searching for signs of an affair.

I just say what's true which is this. For most of our marriage, you took care of me - in here (bedroom). Now it's my turn to take care of you. Why is that so hard to accept.
 
#63 ·
Think that our culture has turned the idea of sex, into something one should be seeking to validate themselves. Like, if a guy is banging every hot chick until he's 80 years old, somehow ...this elevates his 'status' in our culture. But, that's the culture. And the culture also tells people to chase money, success, fame, education, sex, etc...none of which will make a person happy. Sex, if in a healthy relationship, is a positive thing. A bonding thing. But, if a person is looking for sex to validate themselves, or find their worth, then that is when it becomes their end all/be all.
 
#67 ·
If you're not having sex with your man, you should know that he's not ok with it. Unless you have some kind of cognitive deficiency or something. And if you ask him and he says he doesn't have a problem with it, he's lying. He's telling you what he thinks you want to hear because if he tells you the truth he'll get it even less. This is pretty basic Male101 stuff. So don't act all surprised when he dumps you and finally admits that he wasn't ok with it. It just makes you look disingenuous.
 
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