What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
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post #31 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

An update to this thread...

This holiday weekend we have been intimate with each other four times. Two instances were all about me, and the other two were all about her. Previously this would have definitely NOT been able to happen. 1st, my wife would be very angry at me if she would be ready to go and I for whatever reason would not be (could but I would have to force it). The other two times when I was ready but she was not, I would have rejected those opportunities as her just giving me pity sex.

In reality, the frequency of our drives is not exactly mismatched, but at the moment one of us will be ready to go when the other is not. Instead of getting frustrated and rejecting each other, we have been taking that opportunity to explore each other one-at-a-time and ask for exactly what we want, and holy cow!!!!

Previously I would have gotten angry and resentful at her for rejecting me and/or perhaps offering me what I felt to be pity sex. She would have been too emotionally disconnected to let me know the moments when she was actually in the mood (if it even happened), and it would have been an extremely toxic holiday weekend together.

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post #32 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 03:38 PM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

I've very much enjoyed reading this thread.

I know for me I really appreciate knowing that if I decide I really am tired or not up for it and hb wants sex he will happily let me sleep without any pouting. I see that as a sign of strength and self control, which is attractive.

Said attractiveness motivates me to think about sex with him.

We've also come to the point where sex will often be about one or the other. Sometimes both of us will get there but other times just one.

And if an O isn't going to happen that must be communicated and respected. It certainly happens with me and hb is at the age where it happens to him too.

If not today then another day.....less pressure for everyone.
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post #33 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

An update to this thread...

Things have continued to improve particularly in regards to how we now initiate intimacy as a couple. Previously it had been a volatile experience for me that was often filled with her rejecting me and causing both of us anxiety. Although I could keep a playful attitude, I knew something needed to happen for it to become a more natural and playful process.

My wife and I were talking the other day and I think the biggest thing to happen is for me to back off from trying too hard to get her to enjoy herself. Now I am giving her enough space intimately for her to enjoy things on her own terms and begin communicating those things to me, initiating sex has started to become a playful and more natural process.

Previously if I was feeling distant from my wife, I would feel as if we needed to have sex and make sure she enjoyed it to in order feel more "connected" with her. Now I simply share my arousal and desire with her in a way that is playful with no expectations other than wanting to make sure she feels loved. Instead of her having to be confrontational and repeatedly reject the idea that I would likely try and to force her try to enjoy herself, she can now be playful in return knowing that i will not get my feelings hurt if she is not really aroused or in the mood.

In reality things usually start out with her focusing her attention on me and she sometimes indicates that she is not aroused and for me not to try or worry about her, she will just want me to enjoy myself. Then as things progress, out of nowhere she will begin to respond. At that point, I then focus on her or mutual pleasure and just allow whatever happens to happen. Occasionally she may request for me to do something in particular, and I am learning how to enjoy her asking for something as opposed to just arbitrarily trying something different before she is ready.

As for introducing variety into the bedroom, I have that found if I focus on things that improve my pleasure without any elements that are providing stimulation to her that she may or may not be ready for, that I can start asking for a lot more things.

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post #34 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 11:58 AM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

Question, does your wife like or dislike certain toys?
You spoke of #4 letting sex be natural.
She enjoyed you working harder & paying more attention.
I find the toys sometimes do the work for Mr A when maybe he should be putting in the effort.
I've tried giving him a guide so to speak but in his mind it's hard work.


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post #35 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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Question, does your wife like or dislike certain toys?
You spoke of #4 letting sex be natural.
She enjoyed you working harder & paying more attention.
I find the toys sometimes do the work for Mr A when maybe he should be putting in the effort.
I've tried giving him a guide so to speak but in his mind it's hard work.


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Generally speaking she does not really like toys, especially if I try to get them out before she feels like she might even want to try one.

Occasionally she might ask me to use one.

I also encourage her to try them on her own, but she admits she likes it much better when I do all the work. And IF a toy is going to be used, it is ONLY for orgasms number three and above. She likes the first one or two to be simple and natural.
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post #36 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

Another update:

Now that I feel I have discovered the basic things my wife needs from me stated in my original post, our communication and intimacy has continued to improve. I am actually finding all the old reasons that I would have thought were the primary reasons my wife might need to reject me for sex to NOT BE TRUE.

SHE IS TIRED! Nope! We have now had some of the most incredible and mind blowing sex that leaves us covered in sweat at around 2am after she has had a long day and has had legitimate reasons to be tired.

SHE IS STRESSED! Nope! We have had days where she has been under a lot of stress, but now she can turn to me to help calm herself down with a clear understanding that we will respect each other. Then the moment arises and sex is great.

SHE FEELS YUCKY! Nope! Generally if my wife has not had a shower within the past hour, she would claim she feels yucky (from working outside, driving around in the heat, whatever) and would often use that as an excuse to push me away. Now, not so much anymore. She will just raise her eyebrows and say, "well I'm all yucky from riding bikes with the kids" and smile to see if it scares me away as she jumps on top of me. It seems like before this was just a lame excuse.

So for those wives out there that come up with generic excuses to get out of sex, I would argue that this is very counterproductive in the long run. Your husband will listen to you and back off when these conditions reoccur. In reality it is likely pushing him away when you would actually enjoy him being closer and more playful.

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post #37 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 06:10 PM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

Santa, my man, those excuses are of the "the dog ate my homework" variety to a self respecting LD

To this day my best was that she was stressed out because of a moth and mice infestation in our house. That turned out to be a single moth hole in a garment and a 2 inch field mouse which I drove a mile away and released.

Somehow, LD's think we are buying those excuses. Like my fellow PhD coworker who had a 40℅ chance of calling sick if the boss was traveling. HR noticed and he was promptly canned.

They know, you know, and they know you know.

I'm currently facing a mass murderer poltergeist roaming around the McMansion. Three times we've spotted and cleaned red stains from the carpet. In the same path. I can't wait to have the poltergeist as an excuse.
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post #38 of 108 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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#5 If I really need her and she is not in the mood, then just enjoy it! She enjoys pleasing me, but at the same time if she is not in the mood she does not want me to get disappointed because she will not be able to get there with me. This can be a difficult thing to do for me because I get the most enjoyment of feeling her aroused, but at the same time I should not reject her simple desire to please me when I am extremely aroused.
I want to talk a moment about the dynamics of #5. Previously in my marriage one of my biggest complaints to my wife was that she would simply not even try to get herself in the mood if at first she did not feel into the moment. She would just tell me that she was NOT in the mood, push me away, and insist that the idea of us having sex was not going to happen. Sometimes in the past when this happened she would offer to just take care of me, but I would often decline and insist that it would be better to revisit the topic when she is more open to enjoying the moment together. This in turn resulted in a pattern of behavior on my part where I would be the one that would try too hard to get her in the mood, and continued attempts at this were not only counterproductive, but it kept adding to the list of things that made her feel inadequate.

So now for the first time in our sexual history ever since I can remember, I felt what it was to have an intimate moment that was definitely not an ideal moment for her and experience her give an honest effort to get herself in the mood for us to share the moment. Even though it did not happen for her and she eventually communicated to me during the middle of things that she was just not feeling it, I found it to be a meaningful experience to feel her trying. She also had enough confidence in me to know that once she told me that it was not going to happen that I would not get disappointed and that she could still enjoy focussing her efforts to please me, and that ended up being great.

I imagine many husbands would get their egos hurt by feeling like, well if I could not please my wife, well then is it because she does not love me or something. That would be how I would feel in the past and then I would begin trying every trick in the book to try and get her to enjoy it and force an orgasm to happen for her, to which I often actually could, but I don't think it was an enjoyable experience for her.

So it has taken a lot of development on my behalf to understand that if it is not the right moment and she TRIES, that it is still OK, I'll back off my efforts of trying to please her and we can still really enjoy the moment together and really feel close.

The most awesome moment was that the next day we were talking and she apologized for having too many stressful thoughts in her mind about one of her work projects. She thanked me for being extremely supportive of her needs outside the bedroom and now that she was not as stressed out anymore that she was looking forwards to giving me a night to enjoy very soon (meaning she would be able to completely let herself go with me).

So I think it is very important for a partner to feel confident enough to admit that they can not get themselves into the moment and know that the relationship is loving enough that both of you can shift your focus and still enjoy the moment in other ways, even if that means just one partner pleasing the other. While that sounds simple, guys have to understand that the proverbial delicate male ego results in many wives simply faking an orgasm to get it over with. Many wives would likely feel much more loved if they could be honest when they are not into the moment AND still feel close enough to their husbands for both just to enjoy pleasing the one of you that is actually aroused.

Sincerely,
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post #39 of 108 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 11:10 AM
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Excellent thread from OP and others. I hope to post helpful tips on engaging an LD spouse in the near future also. Not today.
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post #40 of 108 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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SHE IS TIRED! Nope! We have now had some of the most incredible and mind blowing sex that leaves us covered in sweat at around 2am after she has had a long day and has had legitimate reasons to be tired.

SHE IS STRESSED! Nope! We have had days where she has been under a lot of stress, but now she can turn to me to help calm herself down with a clear understanding that we will respect each other. Then the moment arises and sex is great.
My wife just used these two excuses as to why she did not want any intimacy. While I used to be respectful of these excuses I called bullshît on them. I managed to peel back the layers of fake excuses to get down to brass tax: she was upset with me (and in my opinion probably wanted to punish me by not even trying to be intimate).

So we had a long discussion regarding the "event" that had her so upset with me. After that was aired out, then things reconciled and finally got back on track. We started hugging, and one thing led to another.

So I am reaffirming that stress and fatigue are fake excuses! It may be true there is a legitimate reason interfering with intimacy, but if your wife says she is tired but at the same time seems agitated, start using some common sense and call bullshît so that you can discuss what is really causing a problem. Same goes for saying I'm "stressed out" right after claiming to be "tired" (ordinary people do NOT experience those two sensations simultaneously)!

Be careful about calling out these excuses once you suspect they are fake that you do it in a calm and level headed way, and also be prepared for an argument because there is an issue that will likely need to be discussed and forgiven.

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post #41 of 108 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 02:52 AM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

Excuses do not have to be rational.

Stress does cause physical exhaustion perception wise... http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-li...s/art-20050987
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post #42 of 108 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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Excuses do not have to be rational.
All excuses that divert attention away from solving real issues are very problematic. Sex aside, I think our instincts to get upset when a loved one rejects us are NOT necessarily about getting upset because we don't get sex. But I am now starting to think we get more upset because instinctually we know we are being lied to.

So in the following scenario a wife is upset at you for reason A) but gives you excuses B) C) D) E) & F) as to why she feels distant. She then gets upset at you for getting frustrated at her because you ONLY want sex. Meanwhile she is guilty of not taking the time to confront problem A) with you.

In reality if my wife said, I am upset over issue A) and that makes me not want to be close to you right now. I could actually deal with that and NOT get upset. At that point the issue of having sex or not is no longer an important issue, but taking a moment to discuss our feeling to one another IS important.

What is my story behind this one? Parenting issues and our teenage kids throwing me under the bus!

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post #43 of 108 (permalink) Old 08-19-2016, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

I'm going to add another point to the things I am learning here:

#7 Initiating sex must be done with the correct attitude! I have read a lot of things that indicate that women do not like to be asked for sex, and while sometimes it is unavoidable when scheduling conflicts arise and a couple has to carve out some time, a husband should avoid asking AND have the correct attitude towards "initiating" sex. The correct attitude to initiate sex involves being both very assertive AND respectful to your wife simultaneously.

To most men including myself, this type of attitude seems to create somewhat of a paradox. How can one be assertive and respectful simultaneously?

A) You make your desire for your wife known in such a way that she is unable to question it or reject it. This can NOT include a desire to want your wife to want you, as those feelings belong to her and you have no control over those. This is specifically your desire for her, and that has to be communicated in a way that is crystal clear and unquestionable.

B) You can also be respectful by patiently allowing her to respond to your desire on her own terms. Perhaps she will want to hug for a while, it is possible she needs to unload some emotional drama via conversation, or perhaps it is also a good moment for her and things will just happen. The thing is regardless of how she responds if you can keep a positive/patient attitude as well as sustain a high level of arousal while she reacts in whatever way she wants, she will be much more likely to become receptive compared to trying to initiate sex out of asking from neediness or a lack of patience with her if she does not respond in a positive way right away.

C) Do NOT allow her to reject your desire for her, and you better make sure there is enough of it there that it can withstand an emotional firestorm from her if she wants to have one. If my wife tells me she does NOT want sex, I'll smile at her and tell her that, "it will be fine, I can still work with that!" Then she will look at me appalled and wanting to get angry, but unable to resist an inevitable smile and giggle that it creates when I am overconfident about my desire for her!

Badsanta

Last edited by badsanta; 08-19-2016 at 10:16 AM.
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post #44 of 108 (permalink) Old 08-20-2016, 04:57 PM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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I want to talk a moment about the dynamics of #5. Previously in my marriage one of my biggest complaints to my wife was that she would simply not even try to get herself in the mood if at first she did not feel into the moment. She would just tell me that she was NOT in the mood, push me away, and insist that the idea of us having sex was not going to happen. Sometimes in the past when this happened she would offer to just take care of me, but I would often decline and insist that it would be better to revisit the topic when she is more open to enjoying the moment together. This in turn resulted in a pattern of behavior on my part where I would be the one that would try too hard to get her in the mood, and continued attempts at this were not only counterproductive, but it kept adding to the list of things that made her feel inadequate.

So now for the first time in our sexual history ever since I can remember, I felt what it was to have an intimate moment that was definitely not an ideal moment for her and experience her give an honest effort to get herself in the mood for us to share the moment. Even though it did not happen for her and she eventually communicated to me during the middle of things that she was just not feeling it, I found it to be a meaningful experience to feel her trying. She also had enough confidence in me to know that once she told me that it was not going to happen that I would not get disappointed and that she could still enjoy focussing her efforts to please me, and that ended up being great.

I imagine many husbands would get their egos hurt by feeling like, well if I could not please my wife, well then is it because she does not love me or something. That would be how I would feel in the past and then I would begin trying every trick in the book to try and get her to enjoy it and force an orgasm to happen for her, to which I often actually could, but I don't think it was an enjoyable experience for her.

So it has taken a lot of development on my behalf to understand that if it is not the right moment and she TRIES, that it is still OK, I'll back off my efforts of trying to please her and we can still really enjoy the moment together and really feel close.

The most awesome moment was that the next day we were talking and she apologized for having too many stressful thoughts in her mind about one of her work projects. She thanked me for being extremely supportive of her needs outside the bedroom and now that she was not as stressed out anymore that she was looking forwards to giving me a night to enjoy very soon (meaning she would be able to completely let herself go with me).

So I think it is very important for a partner to feel confident enough to admit that they can not get themselves into the moment and know that the relationship is loving enough that both of you can shift your focus and still enjoy the moment in other ways, even if that means just one partner pleasing the other. While that sounds simple, guys have to understand that the proverbial delicate male ego results in many wives simply faking an orgasm to get it over with. Many wives would likely feel much more loved if they could be honest when they are not into the moment AND still feel close enough to their husbands for both just to enjoy pleasing the one of you that is actually aroused.

Sincerely,
Badsanta
First, I let me applaud you and even give you a "yes, yes!" for the improvements and insights you've shared.

What I'm wondering about is something I've heard and have been thinking about a lot lately, and that is that foreplay begins immediately after the last orgasm.

Now, foreplay to me is not necessarily overtly sexual. It is teasing, it is connecting, it is how you kiss good morning and how you might text her mid day for absolutely no reason except to say, "hi. Thinking about you..."

Do you do this kind of ongoing foreplay with your wife? Very personal question, I know, but I think this is something that definitely keeps my drive up, so thought I could offer an idea for you.
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post #45 of 108 (permalink) Old 08-20-2016, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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Now, foreplay to me is not necessarily overtly sexual. It is teasing, it is connecting, it is how you kiss good morning and how you might text her mid day for absolutely no reason except to say, "hi. Thinking about you..."

Do you do this kind of ongoing foreplay with your wife? Very personal question, I know, but I think this is something that definitely keeps my drive up, so thought I could offer an idea for you.
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To me the word "foreplay" invokes the idea of actions that are specifically purposed for enhancing sexual arousal. If anything my wife prefers any activities or gestures that are overtly sexual to be downplayed if not right out avoided during daily life in favor of dedicating time to being a team to get things accomplished.

She does like to be reminded that I "care" about her during the day, but I would not go so far as to say that qualifies as sexual foreplay. Yes it improves her emotional closeness and sexual receptivity once the moment occurs, because she needs to feel me put more emphasis on "who" she is as a person compared to "what" she can offer me as a sexual object. So if I text her that I'm "thinking of you" she will likely text me back playfully that she is not responsible if I got myself all aroused thinking of her. BUT if I text her, "is you back feeling better" she will respond to that knowing I care about her.
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