What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation - Page 6 - Talk About Marriage
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post #76 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 06:25 PM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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I'm going to add another point to the things I am learning here:

#7 Initiating sex must be done with the correct attitude! I have read a lot of things that indicate that women do not like to be asked for sex, and while sometimes it is unavoidable when scheduling conflicts arise and a couple has to carve out some time, a husband should avoid asking AND have the correct attitude towards "initiating" sex. The correct attitude to initiate sex involves being both very assertive AND respectful to your wife simultaneously.

To most men including myself, this type of attitude seems to create somewhat of a paradox. How can one be assertive and respectful simultaneously?

Badsanta
It can, because it doesn't need to be "simultaneous". You can be assertive when it comes to showing your desire to your wife but back off and be understanding if she doesn't feel the same in this moment.
It took me a while to learn not to take it personally whenever this would happen. But it really is a mistake to take it as a personal insult if your partner is in less of a mood than you. It also seems too ego-centric to assume that "since I feel a certain way, my wife should also be feeling this way, if only she would make herself feel that way" etc.
Sometimes it's just a biological function of the body. My wife explained it once to me in quite a convincing way, that it has nothing to with her general attraction towards me. I felt better afterwards, whenever she would offer her "service", it wasn't as depressing as before.

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post #77 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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It can, because it doesn't need to be "simultaneous". You can be assertive when it comes to showing your desire to your wife but back off and be understanding if she doesn't feel the same in this moment.
It took me a while to learn not to take it personally whenever this would happen. But it really is a mistake to take it as a personal insult if your partner is in less of a mood than you. It also seems too ego-centric to assume that "since I feel a certain way, my wife should also be feeling this way, if only she would make herself feel that way" etc.
Sometimes it's just a biological function of the body. My wife explained it once to me in quite a convincing way, that it has nothing to with her general attraction towards me. I felt better afterwards, whenever she would offer her "service", it wasn't as depressing as before.
Reading back over that, #7 I think was my wife trying to move towards things just becoming more natural. As in we should avoid scheduling sex unless for some reason it becomes unavoidable. And to just use common sense when I initiate that the moment is appropriate for us to both enjoy it.

Considering I had a defense mechanism of initiating when I might not exactly be in the mood, but only mildly so. She rather me initiate when I am really in the mood, BUT I should easily be able to see if the moment is not ideal and back off as opposed to pushing her to say no. I can see that now!

Thanks for the advice!

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post #78 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 03:54 AM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

Would it not be easier if you had an arrangement whereby you asked HER to initiate it, whenever she is in the mood? This would eliminate ALL you anxieties and any issues of rejection.
Since I am pretty much always ready and available and rarely completely not in the mood, my wife just comes up to me every now and again (2-3 days, which is my rhythm and she knows it). I don't have to stress out anymore, try to predict the moment and wait for the perfect star alignment etc. Much easier this way I found.
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post #79 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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Would it not be easier if you had an arrangement whereby you asked HER to initiate it, whenever she is in the mood? This would eliminate ALL you anxieties and any issues of rejection.
Since I am pretty much always ready and available and rarely completely not in the mood, my wife just comes up to me every now and again (2-3 days, which is my rhythm and she knows it). I don't have to stress out anymore, try to predict the moment and wait for the perfect star alignment etc. Much easier this way I found.
She refuses to initiate... I've asked her about this. Apparently many many many years ago when she was pregnant with our first child she would enjoy to initiate, but I would often reject her and that was excruciatingly traumatic for her. I was under a lot of stress at the time with a new job.
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post #80 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 08:56 AM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

So glad to hear of your progress, I too share in the same struggle. It seems they can change for a time but inevitably fall back into the same uninterested rut. Knowing what they can do and refuse to is almost worse that never experiencing their sexual potential. Stay strong and try to keep being positive.

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post #81 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 06:15 PM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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She refuses to initiate... I've asked her about this. Apparently many many many years ago when she was pregnant with our first child she would enjoy to initiate, but I would often reject her and that was excruciatingly traumatic for her. I was under a lot of stress at the time with a new job.
Apparently? You don't remember? Ok, that's kind of an important detail!
Also it doesn't really seem to fit with your "profile" of an HD partner.
Even when under a lot of stress, I always found that sex relaxed me and unless i was physically unavailable, would have found it hard to reject my wife, under most circumstances. Was it really just the job?
Do you think this might be a reason why she is sometimes not always as attentive to your needs as she could be or not as compassionate whenever you felt anger from rejection?
As a couple, one develops certain habits or "norms". It is conceivable that she now thinks that rejection is a certain "norm" in a relationship and doesn't see it as a big issue for you as a result, when you are experiencing it.

I realise you might have more time now to write up and wishing to "heal" your sexual dynamic but it seems to me - even though you are the one writing up about your hurdles - that she is the one who might require healing, if she is still afraid to initiate. (Unless she is using it as an excuse why she doesn't want to initiate which i view as less probable).
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post #82 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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Apparently? You don't remember? Ok, that's kind of an important detail!
Also it doesn't really seem to fit with your "profile" of an HD partner.
Even when under a lot of stress, I always found that sex relaxed me and unless i was physically unavailable, would have found it hard to reject my wife, under most circumstances. Was it really just the job?
Do you think this might be a reason why she is sometimes not always as attentive to your needs as she could be or not as compassionate whenever you felt anger from rejection?
As a couple, one develops certain habits or "norms". It is conceivable that she now thinks that rejection is a certain "norm" in a relationship and doesn't see it as a big issue for you as a result, when you are experiencing it.

I realise you might have more time now to write up and wishing to "heal" your sexual dynamic but it seems to me - even though you are the one writing up about your hurdles - that she is the one who might require healing, if she is still afraid to initiate. (Unless she is using it as an excuse why she doesn't want to initiate which i view as less probable).
I vaguely remember and think her now claiming it was so traumatic seems to be a bit of an overreaction. Perhaps it was an issue back then, but today it is more of an excuse.

But to look at things in an uncomplicated way... If I initiate at a higher frequency than she is capable of even being receptive, it is fair to conclude that she has no need to initiate.
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post #83 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 07:17 PM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

I thought the whole point of the thread (and others) was that you were feeling anxiety or even anger when she sometimes rejected you? (I think you used the word "anger" if I am not mistaken).
Whether it is an excuse or an actual trauma (too strong a word perhaps), it is still worth examining where it is coming from as it doesn't seem quite right to me and something that needs addressing.
Since my wife started initiating on a regular basis, it has solved 95% of my problems! (to do with sex, obviously)
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post #84 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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Originally Posted by badsanta View Post
I'm going to add another point to the things I am learning here:

#7 Initiating sex must be done with the correct attitude! I have read a lot of things that indicate that women do not like to be asked for sex, and while sometimes it is unavoidable when scheduling conflicts arise and a couple has to carve out some time, a husband should avoid asking AND have the correct attitude towards "initiating" sex. The correct attitude to initiate sex involves being both very assertive AND respectful to your wife simultaneously.

To most men including myself, this type of attitude seems to create somewhat of a paradox. How can one be assertive and respectful simultaneously?

A) You make your desire for your wife known in such a way that she is unable to question it or reject it. This can NOT include a desire to want your wife to want you, as those feelings belong to her and you have no control over those. This is specifically your desire for her, and that has to be communicated in a way that is crystal clear and unquestionable.

B) You can also be respectful by patiently allowing her to respond to your desire on her own terms. Perhaps she will want to hug for a while, it is possible she needs to unload some emotional drama via conversation, or perhaps it is also a good moment for her and things will just happen. The thing is regardless of how she responds if you can keep a positive/patient attitude as well as sustain a high level of arousal while she reacts in whatever way she wants, she will be much more likely to become receptive compared to trying to initiate sex out of asking from neediness or a lack of patience with her if she does not respond in a positive way right away.

C) Do NOT allow her to reject your desire for her, and you better make sure there is enough of it there that it can withstand an emotional firestorm from her if she wants to have one. If my wife tells me she does NOT want sex, I'll smile at her and tell her that, "it will be fine, I can still work with that!" Then she will look at me appalled and wanting to get angry, but unable to resist an inevitable smile and giggle that it creates when I am overconfident about my desire for her!

Badsanta
An update to this thread as #7 regarding how to initiate sex with the correct attitude is still ringing true in my marriage.

Sometimes it help to have some moves or things planned out to "get your wife in the mood" but let me stop and talk about that some more. It is very incorrect to do something for the sole purpose of getting your wife in the mood. What you have to do is take a step back and look at how science currently defines our systems of sexuality as a "dual system" in that we have a system of sexual arousal (things that get us excited and particularly the things that perhaps men place way too much emphasis on) and a system of sexual inhibition (things that we shall refer to as the proverbial "cøck block). It is critical that initiating sex must address BOTH systems of sexual response simultaneously so that the dynamic of both arousal and inhibition can work together in a positive way.

The first thing I have found helpful with this is humor and a positive attitude. But without perhaps helping your partner clear her mind of all the negative things from her day will make being too sexually playful rather unwelcomed at times which can really take an emotional toll on those struggling to initiate sex hoping for their partner to become enthusiastic. This is where many books on romance and/or message get into "setting the mood" so to speak, which is to help reduce or let go of all those negative things that are distracting and rather inhibiting towards being able to enjoy sex.

So I have found that if one "playfully sets the mood" with enough creativity that it can be the winning combination needed to get your spouse to drop her inhibitions and that playfulness should help bring out a smile and some laughter, which is the key ingredient in any relationship. And that is to just try and have fun being with one another.

But wait Badsanta, how does one "playfully set the mood?" Well if the stereotype of setting the mood would be lighting some candles, you have to do exactly that but ALSO be very creative about it. Think turning on a black light and dancing all around in some neon underwear while freaky and groovy music plays in the background (Sure honey we can keep talking about taxes if you want, but let's dance while we talk through all our deductions, cause I want to see if I can deduct all your cloths from your body!). Eventually silliness if done just right in this manner can really help set the mood and segue into something much more fun and seriously crazy!

Cheers,
Badsanta

Last edited by badsanta; 02-20-2017 at 09:34 AM.
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post #85 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 11:28 PM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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It is very incorrect to do something for the sole purpose of getting your wife in the mood.
That doesn't make any sense to me.

Why is it incorrect?
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post #86 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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That doesn't make any sense to me.

Why is it incorrect?
Focusing only on female sexual arousal and meanwhile ignoring the female system of sexual inhibition is extremely problematic.

Have you ever heard of women complaining that they think they would enjoy sex, but they just can't escape from their own minds that are still busy thinking through their day? Research strongly suggests that the female system of sexual inhibition is often much stronger than her system of arousal. Imagine it like driving a car in which you encourage your wife to press the gas, but meanwhile you can't get her foot off the brake pedal. So shifting focus to the needs of her system of sexual inhibition is kind of like giving her the encouragement to take her foot off the brakes. Then she can even find coasting around in neutral can be exciting with the help of just a little push.

It is my opinion that a successful LTR likely needs an initiation ritual that focuses MORE on the female's system of sexual inhibition and just let arousal happen naturally all on its own.

Seriously imagine the female in the relationship looking forwards to sex solely because her partner is great at helping her let go of all her worries in her mind and forget about that in a very relaxing and playful way. Meanwhile those in situations where someone is sexually needy in the bedroom and only focused on arousal tend to create even more stress and the female system of sexual inhibition goes on lock down.

So what does a ritual that focuses on sexual inhibition look like? I used to think it was a long back rub and listening to my wife talk about her day as she unwinds. Now that does tend to work, but sometimes she gets herself really upset while talking about certain topics and then I find it to be more like a session where even my own system of sexual inhibition starts to lock up, because it is hard even for a male to get aroused while discussing his mother-in-law's urinary incontinence, how she is now refusing to fly anymore, and that the whole family will now have to go visit her overseas if we want to the kids to see her. So then the segue from that topic, into hey your boobs are so sexy tonight becomes impossible.

I do find my wife and I enjoy watching TV shows together, and there are a few that are slightly titillating enough to help her escape her day AND be in the mood, but there is a huge problem with that! My wife love to binge watch TV! As soon as we find something she likes, she CAN'T stop watching. Why is that? Because the show does such a great job at helping her escape from her day, and that is what she needs the most.

So how do I as her husband (I often represent most of her problems from the day) help her to escape from her day? ....well that is the part I am focusing on and learning more about right now. The primary ingredient seems to be knowing how to have fun, and having something exciting planned that is strong enough to help the female mind escape her day and start to feel upbeat and playful. I actually find myself trying to think about turning my bedroom/bathroom into a VIP nightclub/spa or something of that nature in which all of these things become useful:

1) Lighting. Drastically alter lighting to help set the mood. This is likely why smart bulbs that can sync to an app have started gaining popularity because it allows lighting to become very dynamic and creative.

2) Music. A good song from the past is very good at eliciting past memories of having fun, and those can serve to help push away all the stress from the day. The selection of music for this is very personal to each person, so it depends on how well you know your partner for this to be effective or annoying.

3) Smell. Not to be ignored, but smell can incite very strong memories and or moods. Just like real estate agents like baking cookies while showing houses to clients, the same effect can happen in the bedroom. This category however is the most challenging for it to work without also being annoying. For my wife, it is simply the smell of a clean home and freshly laundered bed sheets, and this is accomplished by hiring a professional cleaning service.

Now if you look at those three things, all of them are things that stimulate the senses. But it is a form of stimulation NOT for arousal, but more for helping one relax and escape from their own mind. Each of those three things can be adjusted to be mild or strong (soft lighting versus disco lighting) depending on how much help someone needs to be distracted from their day and let go of the brakes so that they can finally start having a good time.
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post #87 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 09:57 AM
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I just want to say, this seems like a whole lot of work in order to have a partner who wants to have sex with you. It seems to put the burden on the male to engineer the female's whole mood, mind, etc. I want to go on record and say that not all females and relationships are like this.

If I had to engineer my man to get him to want to have sex with me, I'd rethink the relationship.
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post #88 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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I just want to say, this seems like a whole lot of work in order to have a partner who wants to have sex with you. It seems to put the burden on the male to engineer the female's whole mood, mind, etc. I want to go on record and say that not all females and relationships are like this.

If I had to engineer my man to get him to want to have sex with me, I'd rethink the relationship.
Oh I 100% agree with how you feel on that! It sucks at times and I have beat myself up over it.

But when you step back to rethink the relationship, one has to look at the big picture of which sex is only a small part. There are many ways in which my wife works very hard in our marriage to make our life the best it can be for me and our children. At the same time she used to struggle with her self confidence and feel undeserving of my attraction to her.

So do I have to be the one to put in some effort to make things work and for us to both enjoy intimacy? Yes. And I have started to find that I enjoy doing it is well and have a rather playful and creative attitude about it.

My wife actually said to me the other night, "I was really not in the mood, but OMG sometimes I adore how you push all my buttons in just the right ways to make an experience like that into something I would have never imagined that I would enjoy so much!"

I'm happy and she is happy. We both have our labors of love so to speak, and we both make it a point to be grateful for what we do for one another these days.

...but YES! I really used to beat myself up over it in the past, and ended up in some very dark places emotionally!

Regards,
Badsanta
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post #89 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 12:48 AM
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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It is my opinion that a successful LTR likely needs an initiation ritual that focuses MORE on the female's system of sexual inhibition and just let arousal happen naturally all on its own.

Seriously imagine the female in the relationship looking forwards to sex solely because her partner is great at helping her let go of all her worries in her mind and forget about that in a very relaxing and playful way. Meanwhile those in situations where someone is sexually needy in the bedroom and only focused on arousal tend to create even more stress and the female system of sexual inhibition goes on lock down.
Looking forward to sex solely for the reason you have describe above, sounds pretty miserable to me. What happened to looking forward to sex solely because they enjoy the experience of sharing that sex?

I don't think it's needy to do things that generate arousal. In my experience doing that sees an increase in the desire for more sexual activity.

On the other hand if generating arousal causes more stress and lockdown. It's fair to say that they're not interested in taking part in a sexual activity.

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...Now if you look at those three things, all of them are things that stimulate the senses. But it is a form of stimulation NOT for arousal, but more for helping one relax and escape from their own mind. Each of those three things can be adjusted to be mild or strong (soft lighting versus disco lighting) depending on how much help someone needs to be distracted from their day and let go of the brakes so that they can finally start having a good time.
So it's still all about trying to get your wife aroused in a very convoluted way. All while trying to convince yourself and possibly her (though I doubt she'd be that clueless), that you're not actually trying to get her aroused?

You could just try kissing her instead.
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post #90 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 01:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What has helped badsanta fix his LD/HD situation

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Looking forward to sex solely for the reason you have describe above, sounds pretty miserable to me. What happened to looking forward to sex solely because they enjoy the experience of sharing that sex?
I enjoy looking forwards to intimacy, meanwhile my wife may be struggling with something upsetting her mom just texted.

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I don't think it's needy to do things that generate arousal. In my experience doing that sees an increase in the desire for more sexual activity.
My wife is not exactly going to desire me to crank up more physical intimacy if she is upset about something and needs help to cool down first. Which is 99% of her day.

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On the other hand if generating arousal causes more stress and lockdown. It's fair to say that they're not interested in taking part in a sexual activity.
Correct, but once she unwinds and lets go of her day THEN the mood changes.



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So it's still all about trying to get your wife aroused in a very convoluted way. All while trying to convince yourself and possibly her (though I doubt she'd be that clueless), that you're not actually trying to get her aroused?

You could just try kissing her instead.
My wife knows when I'm in the mood, and she will actually let me know that she needs help cooling down from something that has her upset so that we can start being more playful. Kissing her while she is calming down might work sometimes, but usually best to let her decompress first.
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