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How to defuse a bitter argument?

15K views 162 replies 32 participants last post by  Sbrown 
#1 · (Edited)
While this is not directly a sex issue, I am posting here because I feel it is the #1 thing that disrupts a healthy sex life in a marriage. And this is where I usually post so people in this forum are most likely to know me.

Normally I am good at keeping my shît together these days and avoiding temper tantrums when my wife needs her space and she pushes me away. This past week I completely lost it and went into full out temper tantrum mode and shut down over my wife refusing to just give me a hug (not sex, just a hug!).

Now I am not perfect and I was hurting to a point I let my mood get the best of me and became bitter. I never yelled (even though my wife accuses me of yelling), but told my wife I needed a hug to help me calm down. She said that I can NOT force her to give me a hug, and I insisted that as her husband that I should be able to ask for a hug when I am hurting and really need one. ...three days of this go buy... She finally gives me a hug but makes it a point to tell me, "I do not feel anything with this hug and it means nothing to me!" Well obviously that made me feel worse than nothing and I completely lost it, and told her to get away from me and leave me alone (this time yelling).

I obviously need a reality check here, but I honestly feel like if you are hurting and you and your partner are angry with one another, that asking for a hug is the equivalent of holding up a white flag and requesting a cease fire. My wife seems to insist that asking for a hug when we are angry is NOT OK and that the only thing I can do is calm myself down and just wait however many days is needed until she feels like she can finally give me a hug. She admits she is NOT a huggy person and has never liked hugs. Perhaps she does not like seeing me weak and needy, I don't know... When our argument first started she said she did not want to hug me because I seemed too angry.

Is it seriously NOT OK to ask for a hug when you are hurting emotionally and "admit" you need some help to calm down and feel better?

Badsanta


***** An update to this thread 09-15-2016 *****

Thanks for everyone's feedback on this thread as I realize that the idea of insisting on a hug to defuse an argument is problematic at best. I even got an official opinion from a therapist on this one and was given the following advice:

Forced hugs never tend to work that well. A much better way would be to say, "I'm ready for a hug when you are" within the context of conveying that you wish to use that to try and help deescalate the argument.
I tried that today and it WORKED! But not without my wife first saying, "OK, you and your hugs!"

Badsanta
 
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#2 ·
Is it seriously NOT OK to ask for a hug when you are hurting emotionally and "admit" you need some help to calm down and feel better?
I think this is a great topic to put out there and applaud your willingness to be honest about how you felt in this situation.

My personal belief after experiencing the same thing many times is that if you base your emotional stability on what your spouse is willing to do for you, you have no emotional stability.

You need to recognize something within yourself that provides the same comfort and reassurance. It is there, you just need to find it.

With practice, you can locate this at any time and it will always be there, regardless of what she does or does not do.

When you always have sight of this within yourself, she can do whatever she wants and it will not matter.

You will not have bitter arguments with her because she cannot do anything to you.
 
#8 ·
My personal belief after experiencing the same thing many times is that if you base your emotional stability on what your spouse is willing to do for you, you have no emotional stability.
This. And when you ask, recognize that you can get no for an answer. Otherwise you are expecting which is a form of control. When you cede that attempt at control, it is much more likely that a request will be met with kindness.
 
#3 ·
Hugs or any kind of affectionate behaviour can definitely calm down an agruement.

My husband often gives me loads of affection when I'm sad or angry & I do for him also. We are extremely affectionate.

I don't know, your wife IMO kind of uses things (agruement/agendas) to avoid intimacy with you, to frustrate you, so you'll leave HER alone.

I also think she gets a little pleasure out of annoying you!
Like when she's supposed to be doing a massage but tortures you by pulling at your back hair!

I think a therapist would say for you NOT to react to her behaviour & then she has no power to play with.

If she wasn't given affection as a child she likely doesn't understand why it's necessary during or after an fight.

It's not about being a man or manly, all mammals on this planet need a form of affectionate behaviour.
My cat won't leave me until I rub his belly to his satisfaction!

You just need to find out what she believes is affection in her mind & then compromise from there.





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#4 ·
I don't know, your wife IMO kind of uses things (agruement/agendas) to avoid intimacy with you, to frustrate you, so you'll leave HER alone.
this is a great point.

if you view these situations as a set up (at least initially), it can help you avoid walking into the "trap"

so next time you ask your wife for a hug and she says "no," realize that on some level she is expecting you to flip out, so you just do a little spin move and smile and say "OK"

you then will have (1) avoided the trap, (2) demonstrated to yourself that you don't really need this and (3) demonstrated to her that you are bulletproof

win win win
 
#5 ·
Sorry, but your wife is correct and you are wrong. You are not entitled to hugs from her just because she married you. She is not your emotional rescue inhaler. It would be nice if she wanted to hug you to provide support when you are feeling down, stressed, etc. But you are not entitled to that, and you are not justified to pout if she refuses your request for affection.

As Anon said, you need to find peace within yourself. And as UMP says, the "game" of attracting your wife never ends. So if you want hugs, then be attractive in your wife's eyes. Which probably does not include being emotionally needs or so weak that you will crumble if your wife refuses to give you a hug.

On the other hand, if she typically refuses to provide support when you need it, and receiving affection when you feel down is very important to you, then you might want to find another woman who is more amendable to providing affection. However, as you know, there are substantial frictions / transactions costs to getting from married to BS2 to dating / married to another woman. And that other more affectionate woman is likely to annoy you in ways that BS2 does not. So think long and hard before jumping out of the frying pan to assess whether you are jumping into the fire.
 
#6 ·
I sort of jumped to conclusions on this one and backed off. I know the other posters know you better than I do.

But I'll give you my initial gut reaction:

You can't pout your way to a hug. It kind of disturbed me too that by your own admissions you throw a temper tantrum and pout for what you need and then are able to sort of step back and analyze it unemotionally.

Just saying. . .I don't know the backstory here.

But yeah, you can't pout your way to a hug, sex, whatever. And what makes me think also that no amount of affection would quell that anger inside, that no amount of affection could act as a salve for whatever your issues are?
 
#9 ·
But yeah, you can't pout your way to a hug, sex, whatever.
Well, you can get a hug that way, but from your mom. If your wife feels like your mom, she is unlikely to want to have sex with you, kwim?

But there are women out there who are pleased to hug men when they need it. It serves a need in those women.

The trick is matching up men who need that in women with women who want/need to give it.
 
#7 ·
Badsanta, have you ever thought about just divorcing and seeking a woman who can fairly effortlessly meet those needs in you?

Some women are okay being needed for a hug and don't need it from the guy back, some women are okay with being needed for a hug and sometimes needing a hug from the guy, and some women are really distressed by the idea the guy needs anything from them at all.

If your wife is in the third category, this relationship is always going to be frustrating for both of you.
 
#11 ·
I guess my answer doesn't answer the title question. I just wanted to say, when I am unhappy with hubby, I don't want to hug him either. Even when he tries and basically steals one, he gets a pretty cold hug back.

That being said, I'm generally a very affectionate person when I'm not hella annoyed LOL.
 
#17 ·
yeah, it would be easier in a way to just reconnect with someone more compatible

but then, she might get sick of it too.

and you might get sick of her getting sick of it and decide to go right to the source
?
 
#15 ·
Badsanta, there is nothing wrong with wanting to be nurtured by a woman. I want to make that clear.

I myself need to be nurtured by my husband. It is not going to change. It is how I am.

And fortunately it is his need to take care of me, to nurture me and basically be the "daddy" I never had. It fills a deep need in him.

See how that works? Complementary needs. Harmonious relationship.
 
#18 ·
the "source" or root issue is: why do you have this need for someone else to make you feel better?

sure, you might find someone else who is more willing to do that, but is that really the problem?

As an example (and I am not offering this to be pejorative toward BadSanta), my kids have emotional regulation issues.

They frequently are unable to calm themselves down, so they do actually need hugs from a parent or someone like that to soothe them

Although I understand this about them and willingly provide this, it is unquestionably a limitation for them and makes life much more difficult.

It is the same limitation for anybody who would need this in order to calm down. It's just a matter of degree.
 
#26 ·
It is a limitation. And some have it greater than others.

Anon, look at your own life. Look at how you feel because your emotional (sexual) needs are not met by your wife.

If they continue to not be met, your capacity to give may also become limited. Or at least not what it could have been.

Badsanta, is what you are doing sustainable? Is it helping you and your wife be all you could be in a relationship? Or is it postponing the inevitable?
 
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#21 ·
Um, this is sort or intertwined with another topic we having going on long term marriage success on Independence.

Okay, I'll concede. . .sometimes your partner NEEDS a hug - their dog of 15 years just had to be put down and they're a mess, time has elapsed between affection, or once in awhile, just a bad day. She SHOULD be sensitive to that.

It was just the way you pouted for it that struck me. . .odd.

Then. . .you come here and go, "Huh! Didn't work. Why?"

Am I the only one struck by the oddity of this?
 
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#23 ·
Of course. That is what we are discussing.

Affection has to be a free will choice, if you want it to feel good.
 
#35 ·
I tend to not want affection when I'm arguing with a partner. At least, not until the argument is over and we've talked the issue through and everyone has calmed down. I'm not much on "angry sex" or even "makeup sex" either, for that matter. To me, physical affection with someone I am angry with, who I know is also angry with me, just doesn't feel good. It feels smothering and too much in a way that is almost physically suffocating.

I also have a lot of experience dealing with someone who thought that if we exchanged any affection at all, then the argument was over and he'd "won". So, essentially, a hug, even if he asked for it, was in his mind an admission that I'd been wrong. The argument was then over, he'd won it and the topic we'd been arguing over was forever closed. That's....exceptionally frustrating. Perhaps not with you (I should hope), but she may have experienced this from a prior partner or even a parent or caregiver. It makes one wary of exchanging affectionate gestures in the midst of arguments.
 
#40 ·
Badsanta, I have come to the conclusion that you have a very complex relationship with your wife.

Many times, you have talked about the strategies you employ with her to pique her interest in you, and how you have made a game of "trying and playfully failing" to get her to pay attention to you and to get her to react in certain ways. Like the joke you refer to in your last paragraph. I think that is fine, and in many ways it seems to work for you.

From my perspective, that would seem to be a lot of work, perhaps a lot of game-playing, in order to get the desired result.

I don't ask my wife for hugs very often. So when I do, she knows that I probably really do need one, and will give me one. However, I would never ask for a hug in the context of an argument or disagreement. I know she will be angry and upset with me, and that is just not the right time or place for me to ask for a hug. Perhaps most importantly, it would come across to her as being needy and weak, and it would be a major turn-off for her. She would probably feel much more contempt for me than pity in that situation.

That said, my wife and I argue the most over the following things:

1.) When I don't pay enough attention to her; specifically for my lack of "active listening", and/or for not letting her finish her thought or sentence before I begin talking.

2.) When I feel like she is being hypercritical of something I have said or done.

3.) Her tendency to "change the subject" when we are discussing something that she is uncomfortable discussing, or she is simply not interested in discussing. For example, one of the big hurdles I was able to clear as a result of our MC a few years ago was my willingness to talk openly and comfortably about sex, and our MC encouraged me to do so with my wife's support. So when I am in the middle of discussing something sexual in nature, it frustrates me to no end to have her change the subject in the middle of the conversation. By the same token, she gets upset when I point out that she has changed the subject, and attempt to steer her back to the subject (could be any subject, not just sex).

4.) My tendency to react to a situation or something that was said without fully and calmly processing it.

I would say 90+% of our confrontations originate from one of these four situations. For me, my big challenge is to be able to quickly identify these situations, and respond in a way that will not escalate them. I have gotten better but I still have a lot of work to do.

What I have been able to do with a good deal of success is to be calm and rational (not angry) when we do have an argument, but not be pouty or needy in the aftermath. If I was clearly in the wrong (like cutting her off in mid-sentence), I will calmly apologize, and tell her I was wrong to do that.

To me, your biggest opportunity in situations like you describe is your ability to quickly "self-soothe", and move on with life without projecting neediness or frustration. I feel like your wife feels contempt for you when you are like that, and that she finds that unattractive. She may find the calmness and control that you project by "self-soothing" to be more appealing, and she will be less likely to further escalate the situation.
 
#43 ·
Badsanta, I have come to the conclusion that you have a very complex relationship with your wife.

Many times, you have talked about the strategies you employ with her to pique her interest in you, and how you have made a game of "trying and playfully failing" to get her to pay attention to you and to get her to react in certain ways. Like the joke you refer to in your last paragraph. I think that is fine, and in many ways it seems to work for you.
"Playful failure" does seem like something I am rather good at! I would not describe it as something that takes work, but I am naturally good at failing and managing to be upbeat about it. Now that I know and accept why my wife will not give me a hug when I need one, I can actually use that to my advantage.

To me, your biggest opportunity in situations like you describe is your ability to quickly "self-soothe", and move on with life without projecting neediness or frustration. I feel like your wife feels contempt for you when you are like that, and that she finds that unattractive. She may find the calmness and control that you project by "self-soothing" to be more appealing, and she will be less likely to further escalate the situation.
COMPLETELY AGREE! For this reason I continued a calm argument with my wife that I insist she should always be able to give me a hug when I need one. Obviously now that I know she will not I can be playful about it and not allow it to bother me.

For bedtime tonight, I plan to read to her from the chapter about hugging in the book the "Passionate Marriage" that describes therapeutical hugging for couples. It is a technique called, "hugging until relaxed!" In this book the author/therapist says that:

My approach differs in that you generally get the hardest things first. Hugging till relaxed isn't easy to do with real depth. It's like intercourse in that neither is too difficult if you only do it superficially—but profound hugging till relaxed is harder to fake... It’s not uncommon to be moved by the experience.
...hmmmmmm rereading this chapter and putting it in the context of a marital debate actually does seem rather profound. I'm NOT asking for the hug because of external problems I need my wife to shelter me from emotionally, but rather I am making myself vulnerable while debating a hot topic in our marriage. In reading this it would seem as though my wife is the one that is not brave enough to be vulnerable with me while we argue. Re-remembering through are arguments I would say she was mostly "afraid" to hug me because she perceived me as angry at her.

OK, I still agree I can NOT expect her to hug me, but I think perhaps I was going in the correct direction by trying to defuse our arguments with a hug. I'm NOT talking about "winning" an argument but more so deescalating things so we can discuss our issues in a calm manner after hugging as opposed to being extremely defensive with one another.

I'm not ready to completely let this one go just yet!

Badsanta
 
#41 ·
I think @Buffon06 is exactly correct. However, first you have to make the decision the you want to become more self-controlled, that you are doing it for your own growth and development. And that you are going to stay with your wife even though she is in some sense demanding that you change in this way. You have to let her "win". In fact you have to WANT her to win, in the sense that you see providing her with the kind of behavior she finds attractive as a "win-win" for both of you.

Or you can decide you want to be married to a woman who likes to give hugs freely and likes to "baby" her husband. And that you prefer to remain a "softy" and find a woman who likes that sort of man rather than change to become more attractive to your current wife.

Either of those is a perfectly fine choice. What is not a good choice is to stay with your wife and remain "mushy" and expect to have a mutually satisfying sex life.
 
#42 ·
The best way to defuse an argument is not to have one in the first place. Some people are not very rational at times and any argument has the potential to escalate badly.

I have had success with standard task or situation base Cognitive Behavioral Therapy techniques, pretty much, explain a situation in detail, present options, and let her "choose". That way shes actively involved in the solution.

That works well except CBT with her is not "permanent" and you have to repeat it time after time.

In the past we had far fewer arguments because of this. Now that both of us have left the building, little gets decided, argument or not.
 
#45 ·
The best way to defuse an argument is not to have one in the first place. Some people are not very rational at times and any argument has the potential to escalate badly.
Well @john117 this is where the two of us would completely disagree with one another regarding our philosophy in life.

I strongly believe that you don't get the good without including the bad!

I NEVER shy away from an argument! Even with my boss at work, when there is a problem I do not wait around for others to notice. I actively solve the problem and then inform others as to allow my boss to object to my solutions if needed.

So with my wife it was like, "hay we have a problem, lets hug and work this out!" While some suggest the problem should first be solved and THEN followed by a hug, my primary problem was my wife being too defensive and she perceived me as too angry. Her solution to that is that we go our separate ways until she has calmed down. While that works and can take days, I would much rather prefer to tackle the problem directly and NOT run away from it until it just goes away.

Hmmmmm lets dig into some Corinthians

Love is not easily angered! (OK not good for me!)
Love is patient (Again not good for me!)
Love keeps no records of wrongs (Not good for me as I was counting the days of no hugs)

CRAP, I was hoping it would say that "love is not afraid" in there somewhere but I got it handed to me again by reading that love is not self seeking.

OK, what is this technique of argument avoidance you speak of again John might I humbly ask?

Badsanta
 
#44 ·
The point of the hug is that you want her to reassure you of her love for you, no?
 
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#46 ·
I just wanted to find a way to calm her down so we can talk. Admittedly I needed to calm myself down as well. Not sure which of the two I needed to calm down first (me or her) but thought we could do it together with a hug.

Reassuring we love each other would be us working out our issues together in a calm conversation that would hopefully follow.
 
#48 ·
I don't think that hugging your wife in the midst of an argument is a good way to diffuse the situation, and facilitate more rational discourse. It makes you appear weak and soft and perhaps vulnerable, but not in a good way. I know my wife would get even more confrontational if I tried to hug her in the middle of a bitter argument because it would illicit her feelings of contempt for me. She might even tell me I'm a wimp and to stop it.

I still maintain the best way to diffuse an argument is to remain calm and rational and to not "rise to the emotional bait" that my wife puts out there because she knows how to push my buttons. The best way for me to diffuse is to quickly recognize the signs of an impending confrontation, and to respond in a way that neutralizes the situation before it escalates.

For me, trying the "hugging until relaxed" approach during an argument would work about as well as dropping my pants during an argument with my wife, pulling out my erect penis, and saying "This argument made me really horny, Honey. Let's just f*ck instead!"
 
#51 ·
I actually think a hug ends up looking condescending. Like, look at you still so angry, I can save you with my calm rational self!

Honestly, getting naked and doing helicopters seems to stop an argument the fastest.
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#57 ·
My husband has figured out a pretty surefire way to get hugs through all of this: don't ask, just do. Calmly and nicely. Don't ask, just do. I will be honest, I don't usually feel any better and sometimes get more angry at the contact but I'm willing to accept it if he gives it with the full knowledge that I am still raw and pissed and it means nothing.
I agree with this and this normally works. It was actually what I tried to do BEFORE I lost it and had my melt down. I went to her and gave her a big hug. Instead of returning the hug, I could tell that she was just not in the mood for any physical contact. After a few moments she began picking at me by yanking the hair from my lower back to make me scream in agony (her favorite way to get a rise out of me), but I was not in the mood for this. I withdrew and told her I needed a serious hug and not one of her being in a silly mood. When I did this I did not realize that feeling entitled to a serious hug would send the whole weekend into a thermo-nuclear meltdown.

I should have just withdrawn and given her some space.

Badsanta
 
#52 ·
Santa, Dr. John's approach is based on behavioral analysis and modelling. Which is psychobabble speak for 'observe, theorize, infer'.

Pretty much you make a basic model of someone's behavior. Not too difficult if you live with them. The model identifies trigger points and you can, ahead of time, mitigate these trigger points a bit.

It won't work with someone you just met on Tinder, but if you have a few years together and you're a good observer it's not too difficult.

You need to know both the high level view and the low level view. Nothing insurmountable.

Once you eliminate the squabble parts, you can have all the fights you want about the important parts :)
 
#53 · (Edited)
@badsanta I admit I did not read al of the responses. I feel it is not a good idea to ask for a hug. It is not a matter of whether or not it's ok but does asking for a hug when she is angry and you feel adrift support the dynamic that you want in your marriage.

You know your wife and you can probably predict what she will do in particular situations. You know she is not a hug type of person and has a tendency to withdraw when there is conflict.

So the first thing you should ask yourself is why you let yourself bump up against every limit you know she has? You were not looking for a hug because you knew you wouldn't get it. Think about it.

You are a manly man with tools and stuff. When a fight seems to get in the red zone, stop and tell her you both need time out and when you both calm down, etc.

Find an independent activity that is enjoyable and siphons off tension. Use your nail gun to make a bird house or a mallet to pound chicken wire into the earth around the tomato patch. Whatever you do, make it independent and a way of calming yourself.
 
#54 · (Edited)
It may seem that you are walking away from what you want but actually you are moving closer. Don't close the space between you and your wife when she is withdrawn, increase it slightly. Give her room to breath and come to you.

It is not a game but simply human nature. When something is always there, it becomes background noise and we don't notice it. Don't be the same all of the time, create space and independence. She will come to you to get you to chase her again.

So chase her and when she gets snippy, go back to create space and independence. Its like a dance, never close when the other person is walking away but at the first sign of willingness to re-engage, close the gap.

Always remain courteous and calm, don't upset her and then bear hug her. It will feel like you are trying to stop her from reacting to your temper.
 
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