Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing - Page 6 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #76 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 08:48 AM
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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Like telling my wife she is beautiful and expect her to enjoy a sincere compliment!

Agreed!
Exactly.
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post #77 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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Body image issues are a major influencing factor in my wife's libido too. She also sees herself as disgusting and my desire for her is seen as me being a pig (because who would be attracted sexually to her in this state?!!). I've tried to help her increase her confidence, but it comes from within.
If you are sincere in telling her she is attractive, DO NOT give up! But do be aware your wife faces anxiety with confronting her own body when it comes to the idea of trying to enjoy physical intimacy.

I find it helpful to tell my wife that we BOTH need to take care of our health and that I want us to help each other. I also combine this with the fact that despite some minor issues with getting older that I still see her loyalty and hard work with our family as things that make her extremely attractive to me and that my body responds to that. THIS is honest, but perhaps avoids the issue that I do find her physically attractive as a means to help her avoid issues she has with her own self image. It works! It is not ideal because I do not want to validate her feelings that she thinks she is ugly, but I have to find creative ways to tell her she is beautiful that tiptoe around her issues with self image.

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post #78 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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Exactly.
I want to hate you for that comment, but I admit you are likely correct...
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post #79 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 09:06 AM
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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Body image issues are a major influencing factor in my wife's libido too. She also sees herself as disgusting and my desire for her is seen as me being a pig (because who would be attracted sexually to her in this state?!!). I've tried to help her increase her confidence, but it comes from within.


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I don't mean to sound harsh towards your wife but only she has the power to change either the way she thinks about herself, or the way she actually looks. I see women no older than 40 just give up - which is fine as long as you feel good about yourself inside. Whatever you say will be the wrong thing if she is in the mindset of ugly. If we don't feel sexy it is hard to be sexy. So how I overcame this was I faked it. I acted sexy (as convincingly as I could) and...eventually.... I felt sexy. But you cannot persuade someone of this, they have to work it out themselves.
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post #80 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 09:25 AM
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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Don't you ever feel like a loyal dog to an owner that doles out more beatings than belly rubs? I'm not sure that I could continue to love someone so indifferent to my needs. I've felt that at one time and the resentment nearly crushed any love I had for my wife. I refuse to accept such inequity from someone that professes to love me.


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I wonder if this is what resonates with me about this situation. It does not seem like love. Without love, no intimacy exists. It is just quid pro quo.

Physical touch if very much NOT my love language. It very much is my husband's. When he was sitting this morning and I ran my hands over his chest and head it was to make him feel good. The thing *I* got out of it was *his* vocalization of pleasure. THAT is intimacy. The action is not relevant.
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post #81 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 09:36 AM
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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Yes. Indeed. Using your partner for whatever your own needs are does not amount to intimacy at all. In any form. Intimacy is a shared thing. Which is why I think that is not what you are after at all. You are after sex. Nothing wrong with that. But understand what it is.
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You really don't understand what I am trying to say to you. You think I am just being a beotch. What BOTH of you are doing is not intimacy at all. It is using each other. If the acts of service like back rubs or sex are not mutually enjoyed, it is not intimacy. You keep trying to stick your expectations into an incorrect reality.
I'm not sure I'll ever understand your definition of intimacy, much less share it. But your double entendres are amusing.
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post #82 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 09:44 AM
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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I'm not sure I'll ever understand your definition of intimacy, much less share it. But your double entendres are amusing.
Double entendres? What the heck is that? Intimacy is the sharing of a bond of love. Acts are motivated be feelings. One possible set of feelings is give to get. That is not intimacy.

Example. My husband does not like beef. Or potatoes. He comes home and cooks me a wonderful steak and baked potatoes with brussels sprouts. He does not want anything from me. He is saying, this is for you. I wake up and see my husband sitting with his coffee. I run my hands on him. I hear him sigh in pleasure. I don't want anything from him. When we experience problems with our kids and know that we can handle it TOGETHER. When we come together with our bodies and enjoy EACH OTHER. Those things are intimacy.

I am not sure what is unclear about this.
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post #83 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 10:19 AM
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

You should have gone into the bedroom with her and given her a back rub, even if you get arroused. This is all part of being intimate with your wife without having sex. My husband doesn't like having sex at night but we are intimate in other ways, cuddling, kissing and then I give him a back rub every night. I know this won't lead to sex but it doesn't matter because this is a way for us to be close and intimate without having sex. Avoiding being intimacy with her because it won't lead to sex has taken a toll on your wife. She feels you only want to touch her because you are hoping it will lead to sex.

My advice is to cuddle, kiss and give her back rubs at night assuming it won't lead to sex. You two will become closer and she is more likely to want to have sex with you when she feels close to you.
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post #84 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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Double entendres? What the heck is that? Intimacy is the sharing of a bond of love. Acts are motivated be feelings. One possible set of feelings is give to get. That is not intimacy.

Example. My husband does not like beef. Or potatoes. He comes home and cooks me a wonderful steak and baked potatoes with brussels sprouts. He does not want anything from me. He is saying, this is for you. I wake up and see my husband sitting with his coffee. I run my hands on him. I hear him sigh in pleasure. I don't want anything from him. When we experience problems with our kids and know that we can handle it TOGETHER. When we come together with our bodies and enjoy EACH OTHER. Those things are intimacy.

I am not sure what is unclear about this.
I agree the notion of giving without expecting anything in return is noble and all that shît, but in many relationships it is just not that simple. Keep in mind that nobility often tax the shît out of any and everyone around them!

I once told my wife that the one thing I valued and enjoy most in life is my desire to be with her, and that I would not change that for all the money in the world. So she knows I desire her. While I do not exactly give to get, I do have to actively work with her on understanding what her needs are and give that to her. In return she understands she does also has to work with me so that at some point I can acknowledge her making an effort in our relationship.

I would not call this giving to get, but more about teaching our partners how to give in ways that will be appreciated. So it is more like understanding you might need help to give and helping your partner give to you as well. Emphasis on the "helping" part as what is actually perceived as true intimacy, and not so much the giving or getting parts!

When my wife after twenty years finally started opening up about what she needed in order to feel loved from me, it was as if my prayers had finally been heard! She continues to help me learn these things, and I continue to help her. For us this might even include putting a little space between us in a way that the following "discord" actually serves to create a more respectful form of tension between us. A little distance can be a healthy thing, especially if it prevents us from what you define as "using" each other and becomeing a little more self reliant.

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post #85 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 10:28 AM
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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I agree the notion of giving without expecting anything in return is noble and all that shît, but in many relationships it is just not that simple. Keep in mind that nobility often tax the shît out of any and everyone around them!
It is not about being noble. It is about being in love. Is your wife in love with you?
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post #86 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 10:40 AM
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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Example. My husband does not like beef. Or potatoes. He comes home and cooks me a wonderful steak and baked potatoes with brussels sprouts. He does not want anything from me. He is saying, this is for you. I wake up and see my husband sitting with his coffee. I run my hands on him. I hear him sigh in pleasure. I don't want anything from him. When we experience problems with our kids and know that we can handle it TOGETHER. When we come together with our bodies and enjoy EACH OTHER. Those things are intimacy.
.
If I waited for my H to make my favourite meal I would be waiting a long time. If I want him to do that for me I would have to buy the ingredients, give him polite written instructions, and then remember to reciprocate his efforts.

Some relationships are not as perfectly harmonious in our differences as yours seems to be. Often one person is required to carry the other. This often means we have to use a combination of cunning psychology and deep compassion for theirs (and our) flaws. We have to think outside the box.
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post #87 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 10:45 AM
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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I don't mean to sound harsh towards your wife but only she has the power to change either the way she thinks about herself, or the way she actually looks. I see women no older than 40 just give up - which is fine as long as you feel good about yourself inside. Whatever you say will be the wrong thing if she is in the mindset of ugly. If we don't feel sexy it is hard to be sexy. So how I overcame this was I faked it. I acted sexy (as convincingly as I could) and...eventually.... I felt sexy. But you cannot persuade someone of this, they have to work it out themselves.


She cannot seem to fake it. Not in her personality. And she has yet to seize her power. Even when I was overweight, I found it within myself to enjoy things and not limit myself. For her, and for others in her family, if the task seems very difficult, they choose to give up without trying. She's realized this and is working on it. She is actually disgusted at her family members for doing this same thing.


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post #88 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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You should have gone into the bedroom with her and given her a back rub, even if you get arroused. This is all part of being intimate with your wife without having sex. My husband doesn't like having sex at night but we are intimate in other ways, cuddling, kissing and then I give him a back rub every night. I know this won't lead to sex but it doesn't matter because this is a way for us to be close and intimate without having sex. Avoiding being intimacy with her because it won't lead to sex has taken a toll on your wife. She feels you only want to touch her because you are hoping it will lead to sex.

My advice is to cuddle, kiss and give her back rubs at night assuming it won't lead to sex. You two will become closer and she is more likely to want to have sex with you when she feels close to you.
I agree and disagree with you. The dynamics in some relationships can get a little more complex. Imagine if your husband might get frustrated with you if you do NOT give him a back rub and help him calm down for sleep at the end of the day. In this case while the back rub may seem like a great form of nonsexual intimacy, perhaps it is leaning more in the direction of a toxic codependency of someone who is unable to handle stress. While YES, it is great to be able to comfort our partners occasionally, it can become rather taxing when it is expected and one-sided.

My wife has argued with me that she needs sex to happen more "naturally" and without any negotiation, planning or arguing. While that sounds great, I have to insist that it will never happen naturally unless she helps me to make it that way. She is now the one deciding that she might need a little more space at moments when I am likely to become too aroused.

So my situation is not as if you are unwilling to give your husband a back rub even though he will not be in the mood. My situation is more like your husband asking you NOT to give him a back rub because he does not want to be around you in the event he gets you aroused. His reasons for not wanting to get you aroused is what he needs in order to relax and not to have to worry about making you feel ignored. This space in turn actually helps him to better enjoy the moments when he DOES want to get you aroused!

If you are someone easily aroused, it is NOT always easy to see that sometimes your partner just needs a little extra space. Even if sex will not happen, the fact that nonsexual intimacy is charged with arousal can actually cause stress for the person that is not in the mood.

Desire sometimes just needs a little distance in order to thrive.

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post #89 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

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It is not about being noble. It is about being in love. Is your wife in love with you?
I'll answer this question in her words...

When I almost died once she was confronted with the idea of living the rest of her life without me. She was surprised that she was not scared by this possibility because I have supported her career to the point that she could be completely independent from me rather easily. Having experienced that, she was happy when I recovered and that we get to continue loving one another. So she stays married to me because she wants to and not because she needs to. THAT for her is something that she says is wonderful to feel in a marriage.

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post #90 of 115 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 11:07 AM
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Re: Avoiding nonsexual intimacy - because it is too arousing

If, "You keep trying to stick your expectations into an incorrect reality." isn't a double entendre, it should be.

Intimacy is a shared vulnerability that builds trust. It is the environment were love can grow. It is not love. When vulnerability is responded to with assault it does not build trust, without trust love dies.
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